Official Tmobile-Sprint merger discussion thread

[stlman314]

1 hour ago, Cardsfan96 said:

Is the STL market a Nokia or Ericsson market for T-Mobile?

Don't quote me but I think both. M-MIMO are Nokia but other antennas are Ericsson I believe.

[PedroDaGr8]

I think I spotted a Nokia N41 panel on a tower which hosts T-Mob, ATT, and Verizon. Sprint is nearby in a much worse location on a building, so it makes sense that T-Mob would prefer this tower.



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[RAvirani]

29 minutes ago, PedroDaGr8 said:

I think I spotted a Nokia N41 panel on a tower which hosts T-Mob, ATT, and Verizon. Sprint is nearby in a much worse location on a building, so it makes sense that T-Mob would prefer this tower.



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Is that the tower off 405 in Canyon Park?

[PedroDaGr8]

1 minute ago, RAvirani said:

Is that the tower off 405 in Canyon Park?

Yes! How the hell did you get that from the limited info I gave? I'm impressed!

I don't know if it is live or not because I don't have a 5G phone but the Park & Ride location is still broadcasting B41 on all three carriers. 

[derrph]

I find it funny that all the T-Mobile fanboys are pressed over Sprints b41 all of a sudden and wanting to use it. But when it was used on Sprint, it was considered horrible spectrum and that T-Mobile was better positioned with spectrum. If T-Mobile isn’t using it then it’s no good. The same goes with DSS. Right now they’re trashing it but as soon as T-Mobile implements it, it’ll be the best thing since sliced pie.


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[Tengen31]

I find it funny that all the T-Mobile fanboys are pressed over Sprints b41 all of a sudden and wanting to use it. But when it was used on Sprint, it was considered horrible spectrum and that T-Mobile was better positioned with spectrum. If T-Mobile isn’t using it then it’s no good. The same goes with DSS. Right now they’re trashing it but as soon as T-Mobile implements it, it’ll be the best thing since sliced pie.


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I couldn't agree more. Some even called sprint lazy and said they could have used B7. So is TMO lazy then

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[derrph]

I couldn't agree more. Some even called sprint lazy and said they could have used B7. So is TMO lazy then

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Even if T-Mobile is, it’s gets overlooked by the diehard fans.


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[greenbastard]

19 minutes ago, derrph said:

I find it funny that all the T-Mobile fanboys are pressed over Sprints b41 all of a sudden and wanting to use it. But when it was used on Sprint, it was considered horrible spectrum and that T-Mobile was better positioned with spectrum. If T-Mobile isn’t using it then it’s no good. The same goes with DSS. Right now they’re trashing it but as soon as T-Mobile implements it, it’ll be the best thing since sliced pie.


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It wasn't horrible spectrum. It was just horribly deployed. Sprint needed a more dense network to make it work, but they never added towers. They really wasted most of that spectrum and never got good use out of it.

Every step Sprint made was the wrong one with the EBS/BRS band. Opting for mini macros in some places was a half-assed attempt at adding capacity. They should have just spent money on better performing 8x8 radios/panels that had more robust coverage and performance. Also, Small Cells wasted 40 Mhz of spectrum because Sprint didn't want to pay for proper backhaul. And the plan to go all in on small cells was a joke. Thinking that macro towers weren't needed was just a huge swing and a miss.

Sprint did everything they could to cut corners, and it showed by the Swiss cheese coverage of B41.

[JonnygATL]

22 minutes ago, greenbastard said:

It wasn't horrible spectrum. It was just horribly deployed. Sprint needed a more dense network to make it work, but they never added towers. They really wasted most of that spectrum and never got good use out of it.

Every step Sprint made was the wrong one with the EBS/BRS band. Opting for mini macros in some places was a half-assed attempt at adding capacity. They should have just spent money on better performing 8x8 radios/panels that had more robust coverage and performance. Also, Small Cells wasted 40 Mhz of spectrum because Sprint didn't want to pay for proper backhaul. And the plan to go all in on small cells was a joke. Thinking that macro towers weren't needed was just a huge swing and a miss.

Sprint did everything they could to cut corners, and it showed by the Swiss cheese coverage of B41.

Eh band 41 is all I'm ever on in most major and even minor cities and I travel a LOT.  Calling Sprint band 41 coverage "Swiss cheese" in nature is woefully incorrect. They did a fantastic job with that, coast to coast, covering the vast majority of locations where Americans live, work and play. I'd argue that they even exceeded their own expectations substantially. To top it off, it's lightning fast.  Fantastic spectrum that was underrated off the rip but that blew us all away once deployed. TMO will only make it better. At least that's my hope. But, hell, it was largely fantastic before!

[Tengen31]

It wasn't horrible spectrum. It was just horribly deployed. Sprint needed a more dense network to make it work, but they never added towers. They really wasted most of that spectrum and never got good use out of it.

Every step Sprint made was the wrong one with the EBS/BRS band. Opting for mini macros in some places was a half-assed attempt at adding capacity. They should have just spent money on better performing 8x8 radios/panels that had more robust coverage and performance. Also, Small Cells wasted 40 Mhz of spectrum because Sprint didn't want to pay for proper backhaul. And the plan to go all in on small cells was a joke. Thinking that macro towers weren't needed was just a huge swing and a miss.

Sprint did everything they could to cut corners, and it showed by the Swiss cheese coverage of B41.

Sprint did add some new towers I just don't know if they had B41 or not. Small cells they added did

 

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[Paynefanbro]

I can only speak for own market but Sprint's Band 41/n41 network in NYC was significantly better than T-Mobile's current Band 71/n71 network. We also largely avoided the mini-macro debacle and went straight toward traditional small cells which Sprint was continuously deploying up until the merger closed.

T-Mobile would be doing itself a favor if they kept all of those small cell locations and switched the equipment to mmWave capable equipment. Sadly it looks like they don't really want to do that. 

[Tengen31]

I can only speak for own market but Sprint's Band 41/n41 network in NYC was significantly better than T-Mobile's current Band 71/n71 network. We also largely avoided the mini-macro debacle and went straight toward traditional small cells which Sprint was continuously deploying up until the merger closed.
T-Mobile would be doing itself a favor if they kept all of those small cell locations and switched the equipment to mmWave capable equipment. Sadly it looks like they don't really want to do that. 

[emoji848]hhmm tmorebull maybe

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[Dkoellerwx]

3 hours ago, greenbastard said:

It wasn't horrible spectrum. It was just horribly deployed. Sprint needed a more dense network to make it work, but they never added towers. They really wasted most of that spectrum and never got good use out of it.

Every step Sprint made was the wrong one with the EBS/BRS band. Opting for mini macros in some places was a half-assed attempt at adding capacity. They should have just spent money on better performing 8x8 radios/panels that had more robust coverage and performance. Also, Small Cells wasted 40 Mhz of spectrum because Sprint didn't want to pay for proper backhaul. And the plan to go all in on small cells was a joke. Thinking that macro towers weren't needed was just a huge swing and a miss.

Sprint did everything they could to cut corners, and it showed by the Swiss cheese coverage of B41.

Never a good idea to broad brush the whole network. We know your area struggled, but there were many markets where B41 was essentially ubiquitous, and had excellent capacity and speed. Essentially everywhere I went in KC I was on B41, and rarely struggled with speed. Same with Denver when I visited. Others clearly had similar experiences in other markets.

[JonnygATL]

3 hours ago, Dkoellerwx said:

Never a good idea to broad brush the whole network. We know your area struggled, but there were many markets where B41 was essentially ubiquitous, and had excellent capacity and speed. Essentially everywhere I went in KC I was on B41, and rarely struggled with speed. Same with Denver when I visited. Others clearly had similar experiences in other markets.

This

[greenbastard]

8 hours ago, Dkoellerwx said:

Never a good idea to broad brush the whole network. We know your area struggled, but there were many markets where B41 was essentially ubiquitous, and had excellent capacity and speed. Essentially everywhere I went in KC I was on B41, and rarely struggled with speed. Same with Denver when I visited. Others clearly had similar experiences in other markets.

The fact is that there are more neglected areas than good areas. New York, Las Vegas, KC, Denver were good markets. Everywhere else? Swiss cheese coverage with overloaded B26.

[Tengen31]

Never a good idea to broad brush the whole network. We know your area struggled, but there were many markets where B41 was essentially ubiquitous, and had excellent capacity and speed. Essentially everywhere I went in KC I was on B41, and rarely struggled with speed. Same with Denver when I visited. Others clearly had similar experiences in other markets.

B41 is very good here in the twin cities also. They did however change the B41 carriers too different ones then what sprint had been using. Tells me TMobile is working on adding 2.5 to their network

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[Tengen31]

The fact is that there are more neglected areas than good areas. New York, Las Vegas, KC, Denver were good markets. Everywhere else? Swiss cheese coverage with overloaded B26.

Their are tons where sprint is fine. I think most metros are pretty good. Here in the twin cities it is good. Good amount of Florida is good thanks to both B41 and 15x15 B25

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[bigsnake49]

B41 in our area was implemented pretty well using a combination of mini macros and traditional macros. At least good enough if you were driving around. Inside your own house or condo though it was not so good. Most of the time in the interior of structures you would fall on Band 26 which was severely overcrowded. The thing they did wrongly is that they actually replaced some macro sites by mini macros thinning out an already thin macro network. If they kept the macro network intact, added b41 on all sites and then added mini macros it would have been a dynamite network. I understand, we are not a major market, Sprint over the years lost their market position from second to AT&T to distant 4th so they cut corners. T-Mobile inherited a very good MetroPCS network in Florida when they merged (Metro copycatted Verizon's macro network). If they don't screw it up and try to cut corners they will end up with an excellent network. We will probably be in the last batch of areas to be fully integrated.

Edited July 28, 2020 by bigsnake49

[ingenium]

The fact is that there are more neglected areas than good areas. New York, Las Vegas, KC, Denver were good markets. Everywhere else? Swiss cheese coverage with overloaded B26.

Pittsburgh has great B41 coverage and speeds. I rarely drop B41. B26 is very usable as a result (I really only see it deep in buildings or in basements).

The SF bay area is hit or miss, since they had good density but due to permitting issues had trouble getting it on every site. Also they're limited to 2 contiguous carriers due to AT&T squatting, which makes B41 congested in some places. I think almost all the sites have B41 now though.

Most cities in my experience are pretty good with B41 now. The issue I see most often is hanging onto weak B41, causing uploads to fail or be painfully slow, instead of dropping to B25. Pittsburgh has a 15x15 B25 carrier that is often wide open and unused due to the solid B41 coverage. It would have been nice to utilize that more, especially with B25-41 CA.

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[iansltx]

Add Austin to the list of areas where B41 hasn't had serious coverage issues for awhile. Yes, you can find places where you'll drop to B25, but if T-Mobile put n41 only on sites that have B41 now, the fact that their n71 network isn't nearly dense enough won't matter anymore because no one would be on it.

Speaking of which, walked over to near the closest n71 site to me last night, around a mile away as the crow flies. With a signal in the -60s and an SNR around 15 I wasn't pulling more than about 30M down. Band-selecting away from 5G got me 50+ Mbps. Something about that site is pretty broken.

Also noticed while I was there that TMo appears to be the only tenant. The bottom rack is vacant, vs. the other sites nearby that have both them and AT&T.

[schmidtj]

Dear Network Experts,

Will a nearby 3G/4G Femtocell override a more distant 5G Macrocell assuming the Femtocell presents a stronger signal?

Thanks,

J

[RAvirani]

1 hour ago, schmidtj said:

Dear Network Experts,

Will a nearby 3G/4G Femtocell override a more distant 5G Macrocell assuming the Femtocell presents a stronger signal?

Thanks,

J

Unlikely.

The UE will likely hang onto NR until the signal is too weak to connect. If the UE connects to the femtocell when it loses NR, it may or may not reconnect to NR before leaving the femtocell's coverage area (depending on the handoff config). 

[Terrell352]

Unlikely.
The UE will likely hang onto NR until the signal is too weak to connect. If the UE connects to the femtocell when it loses NR, it may or may not reconnect to NR before leaving the femtocell's coverage area (depending on the handoff config). 

I am going to have to disagree with you every T-Mobile store here has a femtocell of some type and as soon as an close enough to it I get kicked off 5G

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[JonnygATL]

5 hours ago, greenbastard said:

The fact is that there are more neglected areas than good areas. New York, Las Vegas, KC, Denver were good markets. Everywhere else? Swiss cheese coverage with overloaded B26.

That simply isn't true by any stretch of the imagination.  Atlanta, Miami, New Orleans, Philly, Boston, Chicago, Houston, Cincinnati, Columbus, Louisville, Indianapolis, Minneapolis, Seattle, Dallas, Kansas City, Charlotte ...there are many, many more examples all over the country of great legacy Sprint markets.  Every carrier struggles here and there but to say that band 41 wasn't well and widely deployed in many, many metros across the country is simply untrue. Facts are facts. 

[RAvirani]

11 minutes ago, Terrell352 said:

I am going to have to disagree with you every T-Mobile store here has a femtocell of some type and as soon as an close enough to it I get kicked off 5G

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That's when NR is running in NSA mode. In standalone mode, behavior should be different. I assumed the question was about SA since NSA behavior has been widely observed.