Official Tmobile-Sprint merger discussion thread

[floorguy]

Ok not to sound stupid here.. ok sure i can sound stupid....

Anyway in regards to how the networks will work together????  ummmm dont they already??  I Mean when you roam off of sprint you grab Tmo.... So in the short term, shouldnt it just be a matter of some PRL updates??  And then, as they do now.. while working on the network, hardware or behind scenes, they adjust as necessary....

Reading all the back and forth about the logistics of it makes me laugh.. because with the roaming agreements, its kind of already there..  

[JimBob]

33 minutes ago, floorguy said:

Ok not to sound stupid here.. ok sure i can sound stupid....

Anyway in regards to how the networks will work together????  ummmm dont they already??  I Mean when you roam off of sprint you grab Tmo.... So in the short term, shouldnt it just be a matter of some PRL updates??  And then, as they do now.. while working on the network, hardware or behind scenes, they adjust as necessary....

Reading all the back and forth about the logistics of it makes me laugh.. because with the roaming agreements, its kind of already there..  

My previous worry about incompatibility was 3G (CDMA vs GSM), but that should hopefully be history by the time the merger occurs.

[BlueAngel]

1 hour ago, JimBob said:

My previous worry about incompatibility was 3G (CDMA vs GSM), but that should hopefully be history by the time the merger occurs.

Especially if they update Sprint phones for VoLTE, and regardless most Samsung phones support either network at least the S8/S9 and variants do so I don't see it being a big issue.

[dkyeager]

10 hours ago, floorguy said:

Ok not to sound stupid here.. ok sure i can sound stupid....

Anyway in regards to how the networks will work together????  ummmm dont they already??  I Mean when you roam off of sprint you grab Tmo.... So in the short term, shouldnt it just be a matter of some PRL updates??  And then, as they do now.. while working on the network, hardware or behind scenes, they adjust as necessary....

Reading all the back and forth about the logistics of it makes me laugh.. because with the roaming agreements, its kind of already there..  

 

10 hours ago, JimBob said:

My previous worry about incompatibility was 3G (CDMA vs GSM), but that should hopefully be history by the time the merger occurs.

 

8 hours ago, BlueAngel said:

Especially if they update Sprint phones for VoLTE, and regardless most Samsung phones support either network at least the S8/S9 and variants do so I don't see it being a big issue.

We know the average age of a phone is approaching three years, but that likely has a long tail.  The first phones with VoLTE mentioned in their FCC certification was about three years ago, therefore at least half of the Sprint phones in use are CDMA only.  The FCC hopefully requires that T-Mobile either upgrade the smartphones firmware or provide a discount for the less popular VoLTE capable or CDMA only models (required by FCC in Shentel-nTelos merger, done by T-Mobile in Metro PCS merger). 

Sprint's current VoLTE efforts amount to little more than a box checked to say they have VoLTE.  The minuscule number of VoLTE phones say Sprint is really still a CDMA carrier in terms of voice calls. They likely realized it would be too much pain for too little gain for them at this point.  Call performance typically has dipped with the introduction of VoLTE until the network is density is increased, which Sprint last did with the introduction of WiMAX outside of short range lower powered small cells.  Getting VoLTE to cover the range of 1x800  (B26 covers only the range of 1x1900) would be expensive.  Hopefully the FCC requires T-Mobile to cover this like the Shental-nTelos merger which required all CDMA areas to be covered by LTE.

[floorguy]

Thats true.. hahah forgot that cell phones are in fact PHONES 1st... My thinking was more of the data side of things.. But yes, I am thinking they can push the VOLTE a little more and do some expanding of LTE to other areas, while having PLENTY of saturation between TMO and Sprint for volte coverage in high density areas

[Bob Newhart]

16 hours ago, dkyeager said:

 

Getting VoLTE to cover the range of 1x800  (B26 covers only the range of 1x1900) would be expensive.  .

 

Huh?

[Flompholph]

7 minutes ago, Bob Newhart said:

 

Huh?

1x has double the range of lte. So 1x covers 4x the area to get equal coverage you need 4x the sites. Or in other words more expensive to deploy. Not even bring up signal penatration and the cost to duplacate that.

[nexgencpu]

18 hours ago, dkyeager said:

 

 

We know the average age of a phone is approaching three years, but that likely has a long tail.  The first phones with VoLTE mentioned in their FCC certification was about three years ago, therefore at least half of the Sprint phones in use are CDMA only.  The FCC hopefully requires that T-Mobile either upgrade the smartphones firmware or provide a discount for the less popular VoLTE capable or CDMA only models (required by FCC in Shentel-nTelos merger, done by T-Mobile in Metro PCS merger). 

Sprint's current VoLTE efforts amount to little more than a box checked to say they have VoLTE.  The minuscule number of VoLTE phones say Sprint is really still a CDMA carrier in terms of voice calls. They likely realized it would be too much pain for too little gain for them at this point.  Call performance typically has dipped with the introduction of VoLTE until the network is density is increased, which Sprint last did with the introduction of WiMAX outside of short range lower powered small cells.  Getting VoLTE to cover the range of 1x800  (B26 covers only the range of 1x1900) would be expensive.  Hopefully the FCC requires T-Mobile to cover this like the Shental-nTelos merger which required all CDMA areas to be covered by LTE.

One thing that we are not taking into account is Sprint's 30k small cells. Since 800 was never on those sites(and never will), I do expect those sites will help in urban and suburban settings.

But rural areas are somewhat screwed if 1x goes away.

[dkyeager]

On 12/27/2018 at 3:40 AM, nexgencpu said:

One thing that we are not taking into account is Sprint's 30k small cells.

Thanks for the number. They were mentioned. Small cells are so macro dependent. Gap coverage may no longer be valid. RF shadow coverage primarily aimed for indoors would more likely remain. T-Mobile may want to preserve the spectrum or increase their capacity by going fiber backhaul.  Some or all could also be used for 28Ghz 5g. 

Tribanding the former Clear sites would definitely help to improve indoor urban VoLTE, but we have only seen one done and are running out of time.

Edited December 29, 2018 by dkyeager

[Paynefanbro]

5 hours ago, dkyeager said:

Some or all could also be used for 28mm 5g.

What is 28mm 5G? Do you mean 28GHz?

[nexgencpu]

12 hours ago, dkyeager said:

Thanks for the number. They were mentioned. Small cells are so macro dependant. Gap coverage may no longer be valid. RF shadow coverage primarily aimed for indoors would more likely remain. T-Mobile may want to preserve the spectrum or increase their capacity by going fiber backhaul.  Some or all could also be used for 28mm 5g. 

Tribanding the former Clear sites would definately help to improve indoor urban VoLTE, but we have only seen one done and are running out of time.

Most definitely would be ideal for mmw. But isn't TMobile's mmw holdings pretty meager at this point. They could potentially keep the current B41 on most of those sites and replace them with mmw and 2.5 5G equipment eventually.

Luckily, upgrades for these SC should be pretty straight forward as long as they are fiber fed.

[dkyeager]

On 12/27/2018 at 10:51 AM, Paynefanbro said:

What is 28mm 5G? Do you mean 28GHz?

Thanks, corrected.  mm could also have been millimeter-wave.  The FCC has other terminology mentioned next.

[dkyeager]

Here are the current T-Mobile FCC Upper Microwave Flexible Use Service (UU) licenses, commonly referred to by the trade press as millimeter-wave or 28 Ghz or 39 GHz:

(source: FCC)

We don't know what T-Mobile may have won in the 28 GHz auction, which will be release with the upcoming 24 GHz auction results.  AT&T and Verizon have tied up most of the 39 GHz spectrum, which is extremely fragmented between them in the few areas I have checked. The 39 GHz auction for the remaining spectrum and locations is to occur after the auctions mentioned above.

Edited December 29, 2018 by dkyeager

[Flompholph]

2 hours ago, dkyeager said:

We don't know what T-Mobile may have won in the 28mm auction, which will be release with the upcoming 24mm auction results.  AT&T and Verizon have tied up most of the 39mm spectrum, which is extremely fragmented between them in the few areas I have checked. The 39mm auction for the remaining spectrum and locations is to occur after the auctions mentioned above.

Your mixing ghz and mm again.

Wavelength(m)= speed of wave(normally speed of light)/ frequency.

28mm is around 10.7ghz.

[RedSpark]

Government shutdown suspends Washington’s review of Sprint/T-Mobile merger: https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article223821080.html

Wow!

[cyclone]

The article confuses that point though by stating this:

"Some parts of the FCC operation avoid the cut-off of federal funding. These include FCC Chairman Ajit Pai and the three FCC commissioners who collectively will decide whether to allow the nation’s fourth-largest wireless carrier to merge into the third-largest. Money for their posts comes from sources other than congressional funding, according to the agency’s shutdown plan."

If they are the ones deciding and their job funding isn't tied to congressional funding, then they should be doing work and keep the clock running IMO

Read more here: https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article223821080.html#storylink=c

[tyroned3222]

The article confuses that point though by stating this:
"Some parts of the FCC operation avoid the cut-off of federal funding. These include FCC Chairman Ajit Pai and the three FCC commissioners who collectively will decide whether to allow the nation’s fourth-largest wireless carrier to merge into the third-largest. Money for their posts comes from sources other than congressional funding, according to the agency’s shutdown plan."
If they are the ones deciding and their job funding isn't tied to congressional funding, then they should be doing work and keep the clock running IMO

Read more here: https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article223821080.html#storylink=c

Yup it’s weird and could also delay new phones from being released on time.. idk how both companies will take this delay as it will hurt their collective business the longer it takes


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[Trip]

They may be deciding, but all the research and analysis work is done by staff and presented to them for the decision. 

- Trip

[Trip]

Folks, pretty sure the subject of this discussion is not funding for border security measures, but rather about a merger between Sprint and T-Mobile.  Please stay on topic.

- Trip

[dkyeager]

Recommend that the moderator purge the off-topic political comments above just like any other spam.  Then purge this one at the same time.

[twospirits]

Folks, please stop posting political stuff. I've removed the posts that are political. 

[bigsnake49]

It isn't political when we're just complaining about the shutdown of the government affecting the Sprint/T-Mobile merger. We're not assigning blame, we're just frustrated that it happened, not just this time but all the times in the past.

[RedSpark]

There’s definitely some interesting history between Legere and the President. Wonder if this has any impact on the Merger.

From May 2018: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-02/t-mobile-ceo-checks-into-trump-hotel-on-fence-mending-dc-mission

[Johnner1999]

There’s definitely some interesting history between Legere and the President. Wonder if this has any impact on the Merger.
From May 2018: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-02/t-mobile-ceo-checks-into-trump-hotel-on-fence-mending-dc-mission

I’d see more concern with “recent” post honeymoon phase of SoftBank and POTUS.

But yeah with John’s trump tower tweeets from years ago - yeah


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[danlodish345]

I’d see more concern with “recent” post honeymoon phase of SoftBank and POTUS.

But yeah with John’s trump tower tweeets from years ago - yeah


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I have a feeling that band 26 will be sold off to some company or agency ...

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