Official Tmobile-Sprint merger discussion thread

[dkyeager]

18 minutes ago, tremendousjohnson said:

I had this service for nearly a year, at $50/mo with no bandwidth caps.  Here in the Twin Cities area my speeds and reliability were great.  Similar to yours. I ended up dropping it for 2 reasons:  1) Comcast started offering a $50/mo unlimited plan for 2 years, and 2) I needed better router capabilities than the very limited Nokia device allowed.  I couldn't set IP addresses on my internal private network, without using a separate router in double-NAT config.  I couldn't VPN into my home network without setting up a separate 3rd party service.  

I told them when/if they get an improved device with better routing capabilities, I'd be back.  (I don't love Comcast). But with CGNAT who knows if that will even be possible.  

Good luck.  I hope it works for you.  

I have the same constrains as you on the T-Mobile and Starlink offerings. Have somewhat reasonable service from Charter. VDSL from AT&T is maintained purely for redundancy purposes and would be the one I would switch. Would be awesome if they upgraded it to fiber, but that remains just a dream.

The one area I have not tried is IPv6 VPN. Have any others used this on T-Mobile's WISP offering?

[S4GRU]

In the South Sound area of Western Washington, n25 seems to be the dominant NR band in SA mode.  At least on my Pixel 7 Pro.  It will start out in n71, but as soon as it whiffs out n25, it latches on and doesn't want to let go.  It will hand off n25 with after site until it encounters a site without n25, then will land on n71. And rarely n41.

Doesn't seem I can connect to n41 while driving, unless I am being handed over to a site that has n41 but no n25.  Which is uncommon down here, but more common up the Sound.  If I am stationary, and pushing a lot of data, then I will get moved over to n41 SA.

Robert

[1dante]

T-Mobile has partnered with Cisco to launch the world’s largest cloud native converged core gateway according to a tech channel on YouTube. Article should be found on T-Mobile’s website also. What do you all think?

[JonnygATL]

1 hour ago, S4GRU said:

In the South Sound area of Western Washington, n25 seems to be the dominant NR band in SA mode.  At least on my Pixel 7 Pro.  It will start out in n71, but as soon as it whiffs out n25, it latches on and doesn't want to let go.  It will hand off n25 with after site until it encounters a site without n25, then will land on n71. And rarely n41.

Doesn't seem I can connect to n41 while driving, unless I am being handed over to a site that has n41 but no n25.  Which is uncommon down here, but more common up the Sound.  If I am stationary, and pushing a lot of data, then I will get moved over to n41 SA.

Robert

Since getting a 5G phone a few weeks ago here in Atlanta (briefly the Pixel 7 Pro and now the S22 Ultra) I have only seen n41.  That's not to say that n25 doesn't exist here but, rather, that n41 is so incredibly widespread and dense here that I haven't had a chance to see it.  But I'll keep my eyes peeled and SCP running to scope it out.  

[PedroDaGr8]

17 minutes ago, JonnygATL said:

Since getting a 5G phone a few weeks ago here in Atlanta (briefly the Pixel 7 Pro and now the S22 Ultra) I have only seen n41.  That's not to say that n25 doesn't exist here but, rather, that n41 is so incredibly widespread and dense here that I haven't had a chance to see it.  But I'll keep my eyes peeled and SCP running to scope it out.  

On the S22 you have to unlock n25-SA. Otherwise, you won't see it until they officially roll it out. 

[dkyeager]

20 minutes ago, 1dante said:

T-Mobile has partnered with Cisco to launch the world’s largest cloud native converged core gateway according to a tech channel on YouTube. Article should be found on T-Mobile’s website also. What do you all think?

Link to video?

[schmidtj]

On 12/14/2022 at 10:51 AM, BucketHead25 said:

I took T-Mobile up on their $25/month home internet deal.  Just connected yesterday and have been using it all morning.  I get about 550 down, 70 up with 19 mS latency.  Full time WFH with a virtual desktop and Zoom calls all day.  I'll use it for the next couple weeks.  Can't beat this deal with no contract.  Would love to send Spectrum packing with their $80 basic internet service.

I've tried it 3 times with 3 different model gateways. All three had the same issues so I gave up. I tried Verizon's 5G(C Band) and although it costs $50 it's been rock solid and supports IP Passthrough. Some complain that to get even the $50 price you need to use a Vz CC, Direct Debit or any Debit Card. That wasn't an issue for me. There is a $60 plan but the benefits were nothing of value to me.

That said I have some friends who are tech challenged and they had T-Mobile Home Internet up and running in 10 minutes and are delighted.

My biggest issues with T-Mo were gateway overheating and my cloud backups would fail twice a week with HTTP errors. Neither are experienced on the Vz device. Alas the speeds are somewhat less than T-Mo but ping times are sub 20ms.  

[schmidtj]

16 hours ago, Trip said:

Poking around to see where things are as it seems to be scattered all over the place.

- Trip

Probably designed by committee.

[JonnygATL]

1 hour ago, PedroDaGr8 said:

On the S22 you have to unlock n25-SA. Otherwise, you won't see it until they officially roll it out. 

Heard.  Ok.  I actually don't really feel like I'm missing out. The 5G speeds here on n41 hover around 450 Mbps on average. I'm only checking out of sheer curiosity.  I'm sure it'll be available by the first week or so of the new year, given how aggressive both TMobile and Samsung are in rolling out updates to enable new technologies (and all updates in general). 

[1dante]

2 hours ago, dkyeager said:

Link to video?

 

[though]

On 12/12/2022 at 8:41 AM, Paynefanbro said:

T‑Mobile Expands Leading 5G Network with Additional Coverage and Capacity

https://www.t-mobile.com/news/network/t-mobile-expands-leading-5g-network-with-additional-coverage-and-capacity

 

 

Is this more of a coverage boost or speed boost? If it's a coverage boost, what would the coverage map look like after they flip the switch?

[dkyeager]

49 minutes ago, though said:

Is this more of a coverage boost or speed boost? If it's a coverage boost, what would the coverage map look like after they flip the switch?

This should add both in many areas.  Basically because T-Mobile has seeded so many 5g phones, they are getting rolling on n25.

The even bigger flip the switch moment will be when the can activate the rural n41 licenses they recently won.  They just have to wait out the challenge clock set in motion by AT&T and possibly others.

[RedSpark]

22 minutes ago, dkyeager said:

This should add both in many areas.  Basically because T-Mobile has seeded so many 5g phones, they are getting rolling on n25.

The even bigger flip the switch moment will be when the can activate the rural n41 licenses they recently won.  They just have to wait out the challenge clock set in motion by AT&T and possibly others.

How long is the clock?

[dkyeager]

1 hour ago, RedSpark said:

How long is the clock?

I need to figure out where it fits in the FCC system. Current getting a 504 Gateway Time-out error when I try to lookup the original documents. Extemely rough guess would be at least 60 days. Not a topic in the next commisioners open meeting (may not even need their input).

[dkyeager]

4 hours ago, though said:

Is this more of a coverage boost or speed boost? If it's a coverage boost, what would the coverage map look like after they flip the switch?

Neville tweet:

We've taken @TMobile's #5G standalone core to the next level 🙌

In partnership with @Cisco, 5G AND 4G traffic has moved to the 🌎's largest highly scalable cloud native 5G gateway.

Giving #Uncarrier users a 10% 📈 in speed & 📉 latency!

[Dkoellerwx]

8 hours ago, though said:

Is this more of a coverage boost or speed boost? If it's a coverage boost, what would the coverage map look like after they flip the switch?

For most places it's likely just a capacity boost, adding another layer. If a site is ready for n25, it almost assuredly already has another layer of 5G already active. It might offer a slight coverage boost on a site by site basis if the particular site in question is lacking n71. This new layer won't result in a notable increase in coverage for many. The only places that may benefit are rural areas that are lacking in sites where T-Mobile may be forced to fill out the coverage (aka Nebraska), which is already happening.

[S4GRU]

16 hours ago, JonnygATL said:

Since getting a 5G phone a few weeks ago here in Atlanta (briefly the Pixel 7 Pro and now the S22 Ultra) I have only seen n41.  That's not to say that n25 doesn't exist here but, rather, that n41 is so incredibly widespread and dense here that I haven't had a chance to see it.  But I'll keep my eyes peeled and SCP running to scope it out.  

When I am in NSA mode, I have the same experience as you.  Almost always n41.  But in SA mode, that's when it likes to grab n25 and stay there. It's weird. 

Robert

[Dkoellerwx]

36 minutes ago, S4GRU said:

When I am in NSA mode, I have the same experience as you.  Almost always n41.  But in SA mode, that's when it likes to grab n25 and stay there. It's weird. 

Robert

Does the Pixel 7 natively support SA n25 or did you have to change something to get that? Seems like the only device that has SA n25 right now.

[dkyeager]

15 hours ago, RedSpark said:

How long is the clock?

The filing is so large it bogs down the FCC systems.  https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/ApplicationSearch/applAdmin.jsp?applID=13701739  I got on at about 5am.  There are 1728 parties to this at a minimum: https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/ApplicationSearch/applAgreements.jsp?applID=13701739 

Basically AT&T is trying to put T-Mobile's entire spectrum holdings on trial, but specifically its mid-band holdings.

Here are the pleadings:

AT&T petition to Deny T-Mobile's Long Form Application entered 11/7/22: https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsEntry/attachments/attachmentViewRD.jsp?applType=search&fileKey=901738970&attachmentKey=21623913&attachmentInd=applAttach

T-Mobile Opposition to Deny [Reply] entered 11/14/22: https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsEntry/attachments/attachmentViewRD.jsp?applType=search&fileKey=531424994&attachmentKey=21628501&attachmentInd=applAttach

AT&T Reply in Support of Opposition [rebuttal] entered 11/21/22: https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsEntry/attachments/attachmentViewRD.jsp?applType=search&fileKey=786221504&attachmentKey=21633784&attachmentInd=applAttach

Most interesting Exhibits:

Amended and restated mobile spectrum holdings:

https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsEntry/attachments/attachmentViewRD.jsp?applType=search&fileKey=332091001&attachmentKey=21624009&attachmentInd=applAttach

Not sure who filed this.  Note that it includes 800Mhz holdings (not in use) that T-Mobile is required to sell to Dish at a preset price if Dish agrees else auction off at a preset price or better and only then can take back.  Also note that it does not take into account international border issues that dramatically reduce 800Mhz spectrum as far south as Columbus, OH.

https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsEntry/attachments/attachmentViewRD.jsp?applType=search&fileKey=1198355413&attachmentKey=21597648&attachmentInd=applAttach

T-Mobile is on course to legally become a German subsidiary.  A political mistake IMO.

 

AT&T's plan is likely to stall if they can until the Senate approves another democratic FCC commissioner, and try to have the commissioners to decide this. It could also go to the courts.  Worst case, basically a redo of the anti-trust trial. Or it could just be dismissed after taking up time.  T-Mobile is already denied the opportunity to brag about this during Christmas, the biggest phone sales quarter iirc plus capital poorly deployed getting rural sites ready for 2.5Ghz as a result of this petition.

 

Edit add-on:

Basically AT&T is a master of the political process from their years of setting up tariffs, anti-trust, mergers, etc.  Winning FirstNet caused them to dramatically improve their rural coverage.  2.5Ghz threatens that big time.  Far cheaper to legally dispute rather than to cover rural areas with n77, which they have delayed waiting for one radio to cover c-band and DOD for their one climb strategy.

 

Other possibility: Dish gets a better deal on 800MHz for immediate takeover in exchange for publicly supporting T-Mobile.

 

[RedSpark]

36 minutes ago, dkyeager said:

The filing is so large it bogs down the FCC systems.  https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/ApplicationSearch/applAdmin.jsp?applID=13701739  I got on at about 5am.  There are 1728 parties to this at a minimum: https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/ApplicationSearch/applAgreements.jsp?applID=13701739 

Basically AT&T is trying to put T-Mobile's entire spectrum holdings on trial, but specifically its mid-band holdings.

Here are the pleadings:

AT&T petition to Deny T-Mobile's Long Form Application entered 11/7/22: https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsEntry/attachments/attachmentViewRD.jsp?applType=search&fileKey=901738970&attachmentKey=21623913&attachmentInd=applAttach

T-Mobile Opposition to Deny [Reply] entered 11/14/22: https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsEntry/attachments/attachmentViewRD.jsp?applType=search&fileKey=531424994&attachmentKey=21628501&attachmentInd=applAttach

AT&T Reply in Support of Opposition [rebuttal] entered 11/21/22: https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsEntry/attachments/attachmentViewRD.jsp?applType=search&fileKey=786221504&attachmentKey=21633784&attachmentInd=applAttach

Most interesting Exhibits:

Amended and restated mobile spectrum holdings:

https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsEntry/attachments/attachmentViewRD.jsp?applType=search&fileKey=332091001&attachmentKey=21624009&attachmentInd=applAttach

Not sure who filed this.  Note that it includes 800Mhz holdings (not in use) that T-Mobile is required to sell to Dish at a preset price if Dish agrees else auction off at a preset price or better and only then can take back.  Also note that it does not take into account international border issues that dramatically reduce 800Mhz spectrum as far south as Columbus, OH.

https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsEntry/attachments/attachmentViewRD.jsp?applType=search&fileKey=1198355413&attachmentKey=21597648&attachmentInd=applAttach

T-Mobile is on course to legally become a German subsidiary.  A political mistake IMO.

 

AT&T's plan is likely to stall if they can until the Senate approves another democratic FCC commissioner, and try to have the commissioners to decide this. It could also go to the courts.  Worst case, basically a redo of the anti-trust trial. Or it could just be dismissed after taking up time.  T-Mobile is already denied the opportunity to brag about this during Christmas, the biggest phone sales quarter iirc plus capital poorly deployed getting rural sites ready for 2.5Ghz as a result of this petition.

 

Edit add-on:

Basically AT&T is a master of the political process from their years of setting up tariffs, anti-trust, mergers, etc.  Winning FirstNet caused them to dramatically improve their rural coverage.  2.5Ghz threatens that big time.  Far cheaper to legally dispute rather than to cover rural areas with n77, which they have delayed waiting for one radio to cover c-band and DOD for their one climb strategy.

 

Other possibility: Dish gets a better deal on 800MHz for immediate takeover in exchange for publicly supporting T-Mobile.

 

Very informative! Thank you.

[S4GRU]

4 hours ago, Dkoellerwx said:

Does the Pixel 7 natively support SA n25 or did you have to change something to get that? Seems like the only device that has SA n25 right now.

Native.  Right out of the box.  I put it in NR only mode and it connect to n71 for 30 seconds and then latched right onto to n25.  Glorious. Been n25 SA sailing ever since.

Robert

[bmoses]

my observation on n25 in central iowa is that it seems to be more dominate on sprint conversion sites. according to my logs i've connected to it on legacy t-mobile sites but when i'm out and about and observing my phone i only see it stay connected for any length of time when on sprint converted sites. thinking the logs are from it being handed off and then dropped. not sure why that is and if its something thats unique to this area. seems like there is still a mess in the background from having a t-mobile network, iwireless network, and now sprint network all in the same area.

[dkyeager]

In my part of Columbus OH I am seeing them add a n25 site every few days. I was thinking they are skipping surrounding sites then doing another, but no longer certain of that.  I am now mapping them on signalcheck, although I have left tracks on Cellmapper.

I can track but can't connect to any on my Samsung A32 5G factory unlocked.  This may or may not be my phone.  I plan on getting n25 working on three other phones.  Forcing on s21 ultra and 1+ nord n200 5g rooted with factory unlocked firmware. Waiting for an update on a s22+ factory unlocked that I sometimes can use.

[dkyeager]

9 hours ago, RedSpark said:

Very informative! Thank you.

A new entry has appeared -- from a T-Mobile customer in an area mostly serviced by AT&T!

https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsEntry/attachments/attachmentViewRD.jsp?applType=search&fileKey=2106841583&attachmentKey=21650881&attachmentInd=applAttach

It is listed as an incoming e-mail - not part of the record.

[comintel]

13 hours ago, Dkoellerwx said:

Does the Pixel 7 natively support SA n25 or did you have to change something to get that? Seems like the only device that has SA n25 right now.

Other than S22 with the all-bands-enabled fix, right?

I applied the fix as per

https://s4gru.com/forums/topic/8304-galaxy-s22-thread/?do=findComment&comment=563978 and get SA N25 ok here in Raleigh.

(I had to take a second path through it along the GCF path to get SA N25 to actually show).

But I have promptly disabled it again because it blocks my using N41, which I get now and is much higher speed.

 

Edited December 16, 2022 by comintel