Official Tmobile-Sprint merger discussion thread

[Tengen31]

They need to figure out how to work CDMA and GSM maybe we'll do the CDMA side for voice and talk or the use GSM data who knows how to convert those two on the phones

GSM and CDMA don't matter with VOLTE. CDMA will be gone.

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[Nextel49]

11 minutes ago, Tengen31 said:

GSM and CDMA don't matter with VOLTE. CDMA will be gone.

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GSM is to slow & doesn't have the distance that CDMA has plus CDMA also has VOLTE Sprint has it in some of the New Phones now like the S8 Note 8 V30 etc Verizon already has it as well & they are CDMA

[JustinRP37]

14 hours ago, Nextel49 said:

GSM is to slow & doesn't have the distance that CDMA has plus CDMA also has VOLTE Sprint has it in some of the New Phones now like the S8 Note 8 V30 etc Verizon already has it as well & they are CDMA

He means CDMA will go away slowly. They are not going to deploy CDMA equipment anymore. Moving forward all expansion will be LTE with VOLTE. When you are using VOLTE on Verizon, you are not using CDMA for voice. 

[cletus]

Well, doesn't CDMA have a coverage problem with VOLTE? With the current CDMA tower spacing I don't think VOLTE is necessarily an easy overlay of any CDMA network, Sprint in particular. It might work for areas with good tower coverage but I haven't heard how the carriers will address this gap between CDMA voice range vs VOLTE range. If that is still the case CDMA will be here for a LONG time. 

[Tengen31]

Well, doesn't CDMA have a coverage problem with VOLTE? With the current CDMA tower spacing I don't think VOLTE is necessarily an easy overlay of any CDMA network, Sprint in particular. It might work for areas with good tower coverage but I haven't heard how the carriers will address this gap between CDMA voice range vs VOLTE range. If that is still the case CDMA will be here for a LONG time. 

VOLTE has nothing to do with CDMA. VZW doesn't plan to shut there's down until 2021 at least 1X anyway. When you lose LTE calls just drop as they can't fall back. VZW and Sprint have to keep densify their Networks to keep us on LTE. Sprint is really trying thru small cells and magic box.

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[cletus]

10 minutes ago, Tengen31 said:

VOLTE has nothing to do with CDMA. VZW doesn't plan to shut there's down until 2021 at least 1X anyway. When you lose LTE calls just drop as they can't fall back. VZW and Sprint have to keep densify their Networks to keep us on LTE. Sprint is really trying thru small cells and magic box.

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Right, we agree. VOLTE isn't easily workable due to CDMA tower spacing. Sprint has to densify it's network and it won't get there with continual capex cutbacks. Small cells and magic boxes won't actually solve this either because of their small coverage area/power. The only fix is A) more towers or B)better frequency. 

edit: actually mathwise I am not sure even going from 800 mhz to 700 mhz (if T-Mobile and Sprint merge) would fully solve the issue.

[JustinRP37]

2 hours ago, cletus said:

Right, we agree. VOLTE isn't easily workable due to CDMA tower spacing. Sprint has to densify it's network and it won't get there with continual capex cutbacks. Small cells and magic boxes won't actually solve this either because of their small coverage area/power. The only fix is A) more towers or B)better frequency. 

edit: actually mathwise I am not sure even going from 800 mhz to 700 mhz (if T-Mobile and Sprint merge) would fully solve the issue.

They will have no choice but to densify. Verizon has actually increased the scheduled shuttering of CDMA to the end of 2019. Verizon has already released some phones that only use LTE. Once Verizon stops selling phones with CDMA you will see many manufacturers drop support as it is already not widely used around the world, thus prices for Sprint to keep CDMA would increase as they would need a carrier exclusive phone. I think CDMA does have great call quality, especially towards a cell's edge, but the market has spoken and LTE is king. Sprint realizes this and hence they are rapidly densifying, just like Verizon. There is no choice but to move forward and plan for an LTE-only future within 5-7 years. 

[Tengen31]

They will have no choice but to densify. Verizon has actually increased the scheduled shuttering of CDMA to the end of 2019. Verizon has already released some phones that only use LTE. Once Verizon stops selling phones with CDMA you will see many manufacturers drop support as it is already not widely used around the world, thus prices for Sprint to keep CDMA would increase as they would need a carrier exclusive phone. I think CDMA does have great call quality, especially towards a cell's edge, but the market has spoken and LTE is king. Sprint realizes this and hence they are rapidly densifying, just like Verizon. There is no choice but to move forward and plan for an LTE-only future within 5-7 years. 

I really hope it's sooner than 5-7 years. Sprint really needs the 10x10 B25 which can happen with no more CDMA.

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[Terrell352]

27 minutes ago, Tengen31 said:

I really hope it's sooner than 5-7 years. Sprint really needs the 10x10 B25 which can happen with no more CDMA.

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10x10 b25 is happening in lots of areas even 15x15 b25 in some.

[Tengen31]

10x10 b25 is happening in lots of areas even 15x15 b25 in some.

I know but some areas can't get it without CDMA gone

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[Terrell352]

21 minutes ago, Tengen31 said:

I know but some areas can't get it without CDMA gone

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That’s true.

[Dkoellerwx]

5 hours ago, JustinRP37 said:

He means CDMA will go away slowly. They are not going to deploy CDMA equipment anymore. Moving forward all expansion will be LTE with VOLTE. When you are using VOLTE on Verizon, you are not using CDMA for voice. 

Technically, CDMA is built in to the LTE equipment. So until that equipment gets revised to no longer support CDMA, it will continue to be deployed on any new sites. 

[shaferz]

4 hours ago, Terrell352 said:

10x10 b25 is happening in lots of areas even 15x15 b25 in some.

I live in a market where nearly every location has 10X10 B25.  Its great to have, but there are still long swaths of highway that is non-LTE.  There is gonna need to be a whoooooole lotta densification before cdma can be sunset.  

[Dkoellerwx]

2 minutes ago, shaferz said:

I live in a market where nearly every location has 10X10 B25.  Its great to have, but there are still long swaths of highway that is non-LTE.  There is gonna need to be a whoooooole lotta densification before cdma can be sunset.  

Are these swaths because sites haven't been upgraded, or because the network wasn't designed to cover them? Just about all of the major highways/interstates in IL have coverage. 

[shaferz]

11 hours ago, Dkoellerwx said:

Are these swaths because sites haven't been upgraded, or because the network wasn't designed to cover them? Just about all of the major highways/interstates in IL have coverage. 

Existing sites have all been upgraded, but the network around here was not designed to blanket LTE.  I recognize that the coverage maps often indicate that coverage is acceptable, but that just isn't the case.  

Attaching a pic below that has a blue square.  Illinois Route 47.  Its not an interstate, but still a busy state highway.  This is an area where placement of one additional tower would ensure contiguous LTE coverage from Dwight down through Forrest.  It is equally as bad as you travel farther south on Route 47 south of Forrest.  Phones hang onto LTE for dear life, but drop down to 1x and 3g as the town of Strawn is approached.  From Strawn south nearly all the way to Gibson City is 3G or 1x.

Site spacing is great for 1x voice coverage, but its just not there for full-time LTE coverage (no matter which band is being discussed.)

Every time I'm in one of these areas, I'm reporting the issues in the Sprint Zone.  At one point in time Sprint was working with Illinois Valley Cellular through the Rural Roaming Partner deal - but I have yet to see any indication of connecting to IVC Equipment.  The partnership started in 2014, and it is now nearing the end of 2017, and I am fairly confident that IVC has not held up their end of the deal in moving their network to LTE.  All of that being said, it is not a big deal at this moment.  It will be a big deal at the point in time that a decision is made to shutter CDMA, if the holes are not fixed.  

 

edit:  relevant to this thread - even a Sprint/Tmo merger would not fix this problem without filling in gaps.  

[Nextel49]

On 10/16/2017 at 5:04 PM, Tengen31 said:

GSM and CDMA don't matter with VOLTE. CDMA will be gone.

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GSM is to slow & doesn't have the distance that CDMA has plus CDMA also has VOLTE Sprint has it in some of the New Phones now like the S8 Note 8 V30 etc Verizon already has it as well & they are CDMA

[Nextel49]

https://www.wired.com/story/the-case-against-the-t-mobile-sprint-merger

[twospirits]

5 hours ago, Nextel49 said:

https://www.wired.com/story/the-case-against-the-t-mobile-sprint-merger

I don't know where commentator Clifton K Morris got his info from, but his comments are totally wrong. Just because Softbank has bank in its name does not mean it was, is a bank.

 

[dro1984]

Good article with open mindedness:

By 

Bronwyn Howell; Are three mobile networks necessarily less competitive than four?

https://www.aei.org/publication/are-three-mobile-networks-necessarily-less-competitive-than-four/

Edited October 19, 2017 by dro1984

[JustinRP37]

On 10/18/2017 at 2:08 PM, Nextel49 said:

GSM is to slow & doesn't have the distance that CDMA has plus CDMA also has VOLTE Sprint has it in some of the New Phones now like the S8 Note 8 V30 etc Verizon already has it as well & they are CDMA

You posted this earlier. What people are saying is CDMA is not going to be around a long time. Everything will be LTE, like it or not. I agree that CDMA has great call quality and great ability to maintain the call on the cell fringe. But CDMA will be making way for LTE over the next few years. Once VZ turns it off, then things will get mighty interesting because of economies of scale.

[dkyeager]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-19/sprint-t-mobile-deal-announcement-is-said-to-likely-be-delayed

 and in case you missed it:

http://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/sprint-parent-softbank-dives-into-u-s-tower-market-ahead-expected-t-mobile-tie-up  

https://www.wirelessweek.com/news/2017/10/softbank-joint-venture-acquire-8000-us-cell-towers

The second one is likely the most important as it would free up capital for Sprint which could be used even if there was not a merger imo. It certainly could make Sprint's balance sheet look better in a merger.

Edited October 19, 2017 by dkyeager

[bigsnake49]

14 minutes ago, dkyeager said:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-19/sprint-t-mobile-deal-announcement-is-said-to-likely-be-delayed

 and in case you missed it:

http://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/sprint-parent-softbank-dives-into-u-s-tower-market-ahead-expected-t-mobile-tie-up

The second one is likely the most important as it would free up capital for Sprint which could be used even if there was not a merger imo. It certainly could make Sprint's balance sheet look better in a merger.

I don't understand your take on the second one. Softbank will invest in a tower company which does not have any towers right now which means that they have to construct them. So how does it freaup capital for Sprint? Maybe I am dense.

[dkyeager]

6 minutes ago, bigsnake49 said:

I don't understand your take on the second one. Softbank will invest in a tower company which does not have any towers right now which means that they have to construct them. So how does it freaup capital for Sprint? Maybe I am dense.

better explained in the additional source I forgot to list: https://www.wirelessweek.com/news/2017/10/softbank-joint-venture-acquire-8000-us-cell-towers

It starts with rooftop leases from Sprint.

[bigsnake49]

33 minutes ago, dkyeager said:

better explained in the additional source I forgot to list: https://www.wirelessweek.com/news/2017/10/softbank-joint-venture-acquire-8000-us-cell-towers

It starts with rooftop leases from Sprint.

That was speculation by an analyst and not part of the announcement. Unless he knows something nobody else knows...

[ingenium]

I don't understand your take on the second one. Softbank will invest in a tower company which does not have any towers right now which means that they have to construct them. So how does it freaup capital for Sprint? Maybe I am dense.

I think they would basically buy Sprint's owned tower locations, and Sprint would lease them back at some rate. The lease could be well below market value. This would give Sprint a cash infusion without SoftBank directly investing and triggering them to buy the remaining shares

I'm not sure how many locations Sprint owns. Or perhaps they'll just take over Sprint's lease and then sublet it back to Sprint at a discount.

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