Official Tmobile-Sprint merger discussion thread

[danlodish345]

17 minutes ago, bigsnake49 said:

I don't believe that they have to densify even more. Just select the best sites and put 1900, AWS and 2.5 on all of them. Selectively add small cells to cover the 2.5 GHz gaps. Then selectively add low frequency spectrum to where it's needed (definitely to suburban, exurban and rural locales). Use 600, 700 and 800Mhz as preferred frequencies for VOLTE, as coverage layer and backup when no other band covers. Use the low frequency bands as an overlay not necessarily on every site.

Well my thing is you should put low band on every site. Because even with the higher and mid band spectrum You still need to add those extra layers and on every site in order to keep the other bands from getting overloaded. But I do understand your concept though.

[bigsnake49]

5 minutes ago, danlodish345 said:

Well my thing is you should put low band on every site. Because even with the higher and mid band spectrum You still need to add those extra layers and on every site in order to keep the other bands from getting overloaded. But I do understand your concept though.

With all the midband and 2.5GHz spectrum the combined company will have they should not never be overloaded. When they do then you might want to add lower bands.

[danlodish345]

7 minutes ago, bigsnake49 said:

With all the midband and 2.5GHz spectrum the combined company will have they should not never be overloaded. When they do then you might want to add lower bands.

 But also you need the proper backhaul to.. you can only add so much capacity to one tower.  But also to densify means you can keep up with data and voice demands.

[dro1984]

If they were to be able to merge... I see T-Mobile using much of their 1700 mHz, 1900 mHz and (Sprint's 1900) and 2100 mHz mid-band for LTE... but what will be used for voice, what will be used for LTE Data...etc... I think this would be a great time to rearrange and re-utilized what they will have for LTE and for VoLTE and well and regular voice.   Basically they will have a ton of Spectrum (think of it... they will have 600, 700, 800, 1700, 1900, 2100, and 2500 !  )  from very low "Beach front" to plenty of higher end (Sprint's 2500 mHz)...   They can do some serious  things!  It's exciting!!!   I don't see them wasting any time getting all the sprint customers on to thier versions of  GSM/LTE phones quickly and start re provisioning Sprint's  CDMA Network over and maybe getting rid of their GSM/ Edge etc...  ...   T-Mobile isn't known to drag it's feet...   but how do you see them redoing the network as a whole?

Edited October 10, 2017 by dro1984

[RedSpark]

On 10/8/2017 at 8:57 PM, anthony.spina97 said:

As long as my family and I can stay on our Framily plan then I will remain with the newly combined company. If they try to push us onto TMO One then sadly we'll leave. I'm really not looking forward to this merger if it gets approved by the regulatory bodies.

 

-Anthony

Where do you think you’d switch to?

[Nextel49]

On 10/2/2017 at 4:14 PM, danlodish345 said:

T-Mobile now has the positive capex needed to expand and build out its own network and rely less on roaming...  but also if sprint was taken over by T-Mobile wouldnt they also acquire sprints of debt?

yes

[danlodish345]

2 minutes ago, Nextel49 said:

yes

That still can Hinder positive cash flow.

[danlodish345]

2 hours ago, dro1984 said:

If they were to be able to merge... I see T-Mobile using much of their 1700 mHz, 1900 mHz and (Sprint's 1900) and 2100 mHz mid-band for LTE... but what will be used for voice, what will be used for LTE Data...etc... I think this would be a great time to rearrange and re-utilized what they will have for LTE and for VoLTE and well and regular voice.   Basically they will have a ton of Spectrum (think of it... they will have 600, 700, 800, 1700, 1900, 2100, and 2500 !  )  from very low "Beach front" to plenty of higher end (Sprint's 2500 mHz)...   They can do some serious  things!  It's exciting!!!   I don't see them wasting any time getting all the sprint customers on to thier versions of  GSM/LTE phones quickly and start re provisioning Sprint's  CDMA Network over and maybe getting rid of their GSM/ Edge etc...  ...   T-Mobile isn't known to drag it's feet...   but how do you see them redoing the network as a whole?

I see them shutting down CDMA all together and Shutting down All unnecessary cell sites. I also see HSPA getting totally shut down And going completely LTE only.

[anthony.spina97]

1 hour ago, RedSpark said:

Where do you think you’d switch to?

More than likely Verizon. If I'm going to pay more than I might as well get the reliability and coverage that they provide.

 

-Anthony

[danlodish345]

1 minute ago, anthony.spina97 said:

More than likely Verizon. If I'm going to pay more than I might as well get the reliability and coverage that they provide.

 

-Anthony

 I chose Xfinity mobile which runs off of Verizon. I already jumped ship from T-Mobile to Xfinity mobile so I’m set if the merger happens.

[bigsnake49]

3 hours ago, dro1984 said:

If they were to be able to merge... I see T-Mobile using much of their 1700 mHz, 1900 mHz and (Sprint's 1900) and 2100 mHz mid-band for LTE... but what will be used for voice, what will be used for LTE Data...etc... I think this would be a great time to rearrange and re-utilized what they will have for LTE and for VoLTE and well and regular voice.   Basically they will have a ton of Spectrum (think of it... they will have 600, 700, 800, 1700, 1900, 2100, and 2500 !  )  from very low "Beach front" to plenty of higher end (Sprint's 2500 mHz)...   They can do some serious  things!  It's exciting!!!   I don't see them wasting any time getting all the sprint customers on to thier versions of  GSM/LTE phones quickly and start re provisioning Sprint's  CDMA Network over and maybe getting rid of their GSM/ Edge etc...  ...   T-Mobile isn't known to drag it's feet...   but how do you see them redoing the network as a whole?

1700 and 2100MHz are the uplink and downlink respectively of the AWS band.

[danlodish345]

1 hour ago, bigsnake49 said:

1700 and 2100MHz are the uplink and downlink respectively of the AWS band.

Also think though if they are able to acquire sprint then they will have a treasure trove of high band mid band And low band spectrum.  It would serve them well against the duopoly. 

[Tengen31]

9 hours ago, danlodish345 said:

I see them shutting down CDMA all together and Shutting down All unnecessary cell sites. I also see HSPA getting totally shut down And going completely LTE only.

Tmobile is slowly shutting HSPA+ down. They just announced some cities where they are going to move the last 5x5 pcs over to LTE. 

[bigsnake49]

4 hours ago, Tengen31 said:

Tmobile is slowly shutting HSPA+ down. They just announced some cities where they are going to move the last 5x5 pcs over to LTE. 

Has anybody noticed that the carriers quietly raised prices. Sprint raised the "5 for 90"plan by $10, T-Mobile raised their 2 line plan by $20, Sprint let the Virgin Mobile $1 offer expire, the iPhone offers are rather tepid is everybody waiting for the merger announcement, meanwhile milking the cellular cow?

[S4GRU]

17 hours ago, dro1984 said:

If they were to be able to merge... I see T-Mobile using much of their 1700 mHz, 1900 mHz and (Sprint's 1900) and 2100 mHz mid-band for LTE... but what will be used for voice, what will be used for LTE Data...etc... I think this would be a great time to rearrange and re-utilized what they will have for LTE and for VoLTE and well and regular voice.   Basically they will have a ton of Spectrum (think of it... they will have 600, 700, 800, 1700, 1900, 2100, and 2500 !  )  from very low "Beach front" to plenty of higher end (Sprint's 2500 mHz)...   They can do some serious  things!  It's exciting!!!   I don't see them wasting any time getting all the sprint customers on to thier versions of  GSM/LTE phones quickly and start re provisioning Sprint's  CDMA Network over and maybe getting rid of their GSM/ Edge etc...  ...   T-Mobile isn't known to drag it's feet...   but how do you see them redoing the network as a whole?

I don't expect post merger for the new company to expand GSM/WCDMA in any capacity.  GSM will allow to wither on the vine where currently deployed.  Newly converted Sprint sites will likely be converted to LTE only.  Sprint CDMA likely to be thinned out to one carrier 1xRTT and one carrier EVDO until a sunset period.

This will all be about LTE moving in the future.  The new carrier will focus on VoLTE only for voice and will allow voice to run on every LTE carrier, not limited to certain bands.  If you have an LTE signal, you would have voice capability.  And voice will be given highest QoS.

That's my belief on it.  No sense in investing in any technology that will be phasing out in the next few years.  The question will be to what extent GSM, CDMA and WCDMA will be thinned and susnetted.  The big move will be to get Sprint customers into new handsets that are VoLTE capable on the new network.

[S4GRU]

16 minutes ago, bigsnake49 said:

Has anybody noticed that the carriers quietly raised prices. Sprint raised the "5 for 90"plan by $10, T-Mobile raised their 2 line plan by $20, Sprint let the Virgin Mobile $1 offer expire, the iPhone offers are rather tepid is everybody waiting for the merger announcement, meanwhile milking the cellular cow?

Yes.  And post merger there will be even more pressure to raise the pricing.  It might be the right thing for the eventual health of the market.  I'm not sure if I am prepared to discuss the merits of that currently.  However, pricing will be under reduced pressure to go up without a 4th carrier to pressure them.  Right or wrong, that's where we are headed.

[bigsnake49]

14 minutes ago, S4GRU said:

I don't expect post merger for the new company to expand GSM/WCDMA in any capacity.  GSM will allow to wither on the vine where currently deployed.  Newly converted Sprint sites will likely be converted to LTE only.  Sprint CDMA likely to be thinned out to one carrier 1xRTT and one carrier EVDO until a sunset period.

This will all be about LTE moving in the future.  The new carrier will focus on VoLTE only for voice and will allow voice to run on every LTE carrier, not limited to certain bands.  If you have an LTE signal, you would have voice capability.  And voice will be given highest QoS.

That's my belief on it.  No sense in investing in any technology that will be phasing out in the next few years.  The question will be to what extent GSM, CDMA and WCDMA will be thinned and susnetted.  The big move will be to get Sprint customers into new handsets that are VoLTE capable on the new network.

VOLTE is not a hardware feature. It's a software or firmware update. Heck it just might be a carrier settings update. Between voice over WiFi and VoLTE with graceful handover over, CDMA and WCDMA will be forgotten really soon. Heck if they can get Airave 3's to those that need them, they might not even need the handover.

Edited October 10, 2017 by bigsnake49

[cletus]

10 minutes ago, S4GRU said:

Yes.  And post merger there will be even more pressure to raise the pricing.  It might be the right thing for the eventual health of the market.  I'm not sure if I am prepared to discuss the merits of that currently.  However, pricing will be under reduced pressure to go up without a 4th carrier to pressure them.  Right or wrong, that's where we are headed.

I think that there will be a slight rise in pricing eventually. In the short term I expect AT&T to continue to be aggressive and possibly take more subs from T-Mobile/Sprint and Verizon. Of all the carriers I think the one with the most momentum is definitely AT&T. I think what is overlooked lately is that of the carriers only AT&T has a true vision going forward. They want to replace your TV connection with Direct TV Now as a $10 or $30 addon to your phone bill. They want to not only take down cable companies like TWC/Spectrum but also bring pressure on Verizon. 

So T-Mobile gets this and is trying to scratch around the surface of the problem with Netflix/Spotify deals for subs but I think going forward AT&T's competitive advantage with DirectTV now will be formidable. So T-Mobile/Sprint will probably seek to keep prices low(er) while trying to make gains from more cost effective capex that can be spread over twice as many subs.

[S4GRU]

7 minutes ago, bigsnake49 said:

VOLTE is not a hardware feature. It's a software or firmware update. Heck it just might be a carrier settings update.

REALLY?  I had no idea! </sarcasm>

There are millions of Sprint customers who do not have an LTE phone.  Also M2M customers.  Moving to VoLTE only will certainly mean many Sprint customers will have to upgrade devices.  Not to mention there will also be millions more where the new company will not push VoLTE software upgrades, like early generation LTE devices.  And we have seen in other situations that they may use this as a means to force people to upgrade to new devices and refuse to do any software upgrades on old devices.  We will have to see where they go with this.  Not forcing unnecessary device upgrades would be a requirement for my vote if I was an approving member of these bureaucratic decision makers.

[bigsnake49]

1 minute ago, cletus said:

I think that there will be a slight rise in pricing eventually. In the short term I expect AT&T to continue to be aggressive and possibly take more subs from T-Mobile/Sprint and Verizon. Of all the carriers I think the one with the most momentum is definitely AT&T. I think what is overlooked lately is that of the carriers only AT&T has a true vision going forward. They want to replace your TV connection with Direct TV Now as a $10 or $30 addon to your phone bill. They want to not only take down cable companies like TWC/Spectrum but also bring pressure on Verizon. 

So T-Mobile gets this and is trying to scratch around the surface of the problem with Netflix/Spotify deals for subs but I think going forward AT&T's competitive advantage with DirectTV now will be formidable. So T-Mobile/Sprint will probably seek to keep prices low(er) while trying to make gains from more cost effective capex that can be spread over twice as many subs.

T-Mobile right now is offering 480p Netflix which is not satisfactory. Maybe after they merge with Sprint. Maybe they can even offer Dish's Sling TV.

[bigsnake49]

10 minutes ago, S4GRU said:

REALLY?  I had no idea! </sarcasm>

There are millions of Sprint customers who do not have an LTE phone.  Also M2M customers.  Moving to VoLTE only will certainly mean many Sprint customers will have to upgrade devices.  Not to mention there will also be millions more where the new company will not push VoLTE software upgrades, like early generation LTE devices.  And we have seen in other situations that they may use this as a means to force people to upgrade to new devices and refuse to do any software upgrades on old devices.  We will have to see where they go with this.  Not forcing unnecessary device upgrades would be a requirement for my vote if I was an approving member of these bureaucratic decision makers.

Well forced device upgrades will be coming with maybe some free low end devices incentivizing the holdouts. M2M will also need to be incentivized to upgrade. 

But I think the biggest bone to be tossed to the regulators is to promise that they will match or exceed Verizon's square miles coverage over the next 3 years. A minor bone will that they are open to hosting 3rd party spectrum at reasonable commercial terms for 10 years (cough Dish, cough)

Edited October 10, 2017 by bigsnake49

[RedSpark]

Just now, S4GRU said:

REALLY?  I had no idea! </sarcasm>

There are millions of Sprint customers who do not have an LTE phone.  Also M2M customers.  Moving to VoLTE only will certainly mean many Sprint customers will have to upgrade devices.  Not to mention there will also be millions more where the new company will not push VoLTE software upgrades, like early generation LTE devices.  And we have seen in other situations that they may use this as a means to force people to upgrade to new devices and refuse to do any software upgrades on old devices.

 

According to Sprint (Investor Update - Fiscal 1Q17: Page 8):

• Postpaid carrier aggregation capable phones, which allow for higher download data speeds, were 81 percent of postpaid phones activated during the quarter, increasing the number of these phones within the phone base to 60 percent.

Sprint no longer reports its actual Tri-band LTE device percentage as part of the breakdown. It last did this in the Investor Update - Fiscal 4Q16: Page 8:

• Postpaid smartphones^ represented 94 percent of the ending postpaid phone connection base compared to 92 percent at the end of the year-ago period and 94 percent at the end of the prior quarter. During the quarter, 98 percent of postpaid phones sold were smartphones.
• Postpaid tri-band LTE phones^ represented 84 percent of the ending postpaid phone connection base compared to 69 percent at the end of the year-ago period and 82 percent at the end of the prior quarter. During the quarter, 96 percent of postpaid phones sold were tri-band.

From this combined with other info in the Investor Reports, it's possible to extrapolate how many single/dual band LTE devices there are out there, and guesstimate how many non-LTE devices there are.

[RedSpark]

16 minutes ago, bigsnake49 said:

T-Mobile right now is offering 480p Netflix which is not satisfactory. Maybe after they merge with Sprint. Maybe they can even offer Dish's Sling TV.

If you want the upgraded Netflix plans, you pay the difference over what T-Mobile pays for the base one.

[cletus]

6 minutes ago, RedSpark said:

If you want the upgraded Netflix plans, you pay the difference over what T-Mobile pays for the base one.

https://support.t-mobile.com/docs/DOC-36253

Looks to me like they pay the Netflix account cost for you. So yeah maybe they cap streaming but this also saves you $11/mo if want to watch Netflix at home or wherever. To go for the 4k streaming option you pay only the difference

[S4GRU]

11 minutes ago, RedSpark said:

From this combined with other info in the Investor Reports, it's possible to extrapolate how many single/dual band LTE devices there are out there, and guesstimate how many non-LTE devices there are.

The more meaningful number will be how many will be forced to upgrade because their phone will not be given a VoLTE update at all.  It's possible they will not support even newer Sprint phones that are certainly VoLTE capable with little to no firmware changes.  They may require ALL Sprint customers to upgrade in order to use to new combined network.  That precedent has occurred in the past in other mergers.  We just have no idea at this point how far they will be willing to go back for Sprint customers with existing devices capable of running on what the new network architecture will be.  They may not go backward at all.  Only forward.  We'll see as we start to hear details instead of rumors.