Official Tmobile-Sprint merger discussion thread

[bigsnake49]

9 minutes ago, RedSpark said:

Yup, the money never came. Even so, I don't think Sprint had enough lowband spectrum to effectively complete as a national carrier with strong indoor or rural coverage. Its 800 MHz just wasn't enough and Sprint didn't have enough sites or site density either.

You're absolutely right. I don't think Sprint half-assed it though. I feel tike it quarter-assed it.

The site density is the determining factor. Look at Verizon. They may be spectrum constrained but they have the site density to compensate. 

[Tengen31]

The site density is the determining factor. Look at Verizon. They may be spectrum constrained but they have the site density to compensate. 

Which is why I use vzw right now cause TMO is to slow or loses service in some areas where I live

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[dkyeager]

10 minutes ago, bigsnake49 said:

The site density is the determining factor. Look at Verizon. They may be spectrum constrained but they have the site density to compensate. 

Which is why this merger is not just about spectrum. Customers must be retained for such economies of scale, which yields better rural and inside building coverage.

[bigsnake49]

26 minutes ago, dkyeager said:

Which is why this merger is not just about spectrum. Customers must be retained for such economies of scale, which yields better rural and inside building coverage.

True, T-Mobile will add an additional 20,000 sites (10,000 non-redundant Sprint sites+10,000 brand new sites). I hope that T-Mobile also puts in DAS or small cells in Walmarts and Costcos and the like.

[Tengen31]

True, T-Mobile will add an additional 20,000 sites (10,000 non-redundant Sprint sites+10,000 brand new sites). I hope that T-Mobile also puts in DAS or small cells in Walmarts and Costcos and the like.

You think they would do that?

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[RedSpark]

2 minutes ago, bigsnake49 said:

True, T-Mobile will add an additional 20,000 sites (10,000 non-redundant Sprint sites+10,000 brand new sites). I hope that T-Mobile also puts in DAS or small cells in Walmarts and Costcos and the like.

I hope so as well. However, I think its 600 MHz spectrum could have better indoor propagation for coverage. Of course, many of these box stores are essentially a Faraday cage, so as you said, small cells or a DAS could really help. Unike Sprint under Marcelo and Masa's tenure, T-Mobile will actually put meaningful capex into the network going forward.

[bigsnake49]

I know that Verizon has either DAS or small cells in all those box stores. The roof/ceiling metal structure does act like a Faraday cage. I remember some time ago that Sprint had started an initiative with Walmart to put a small cell on the roof. I don't know how many were actually installed or whether the project ran out of money like so many projects at Sprint.

[RedSpark]

13 minutes ago, Tengen31 said:

You think they would do that?

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All depends on what kind of agreements the "National Development" Group can reach: https://howmobileworks.com

More specifically: https://howmobileworks.com/das-site/

Submit a site: https://howmobileworks.com/submit-a-site/

[Yuhfhrh]

17 hours ago, dkyeager said:

The merger gives T-Mobile so much room for 5g conversion of bands. Unfortunately there is not as much flexibility in bandwidth per channel as there should be below 6Ghz. n25 will still be limited to 20x20 iirc. This could just be another way the duo are hammering down the nail that sticks up.

The latest 3GPP release shows 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, and 40 MHz bandwidth support for N25, N2 still only 5, 10, 15, 20 so I would assume T-Mobile has been dipping their hand in this.

N66 also shows support for 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, and 40 MHz.

[red_dog007]

For markets that TMobile is already using n41, are they refarming spectrum from Sprint's side, spectrum sharing or just using unused spectrum?

[Tengen31]

For markets that TMobile is already using n41, are they refarming spectrum from Sprint's side, spectrum sharing or just using unused spectrum?

Unused. Doesn't sound like they can use the spectrum that sprints uses until sprint is shutdown

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[Trip]

2 hours ago, RedSpark said:

Even so, I don't think Sprint had enough lowband spectrum to effectively complete as a national carrier with strong indoor or rural coverage. Its 800 MHz just wasn't enough and Sprint didn't have enough sites or site density either.

You're absolutely right. I don't think Sprint half-assed it though. I feel tike it quarter-assed it.

Shentel managed to be competitive with AT&T in West Virginia with the same spectrum that Sprint had anywhere else.  I feel like the spectrum excuse is a cop-out; they didn't invest enough.  In many of the rural areas I've been in, T-Mobile has deployed 700-only (5x5), which is the same LTE spectrum Sprint had on 800. 

- Trip

[RedSpark]

13 minutes ago, Trip said:

Shentel managed to be competitive with AT&T in West Virginia with the same spectrum that Sprint had anywhere else.  I feel like the spectrum excuse is a cop-out; they didn't invest enough.  In many of the rural areas I've been in, T-Mobile has deployed 700-only (5x5), which is the same LTE spectrum Sprint had on 800. 

- Trip

I don't have experience with Shentel areas, but from looking at their earnings reports, they seemed very capable at deploying a network.

I agree with you: Sprint didn't invest enough in site density and placement.

Going forward, 600 MHz will play a substantial role in rural coverage. This is something Sprint's (and T-Mobile's) prior spectrum holdings could have never accomplished on their own.

Edited May 12, 2020 by RedSpark
Clarity

[Yuhfhrh]

1 hour ago, red_dog007 said:

For markets that TMobile is already using n41, are they refarming spectrum from Sprint's side, spectrum sharing or just using unused spectrum?

Unused in Philadelphia, and for NYC the same frequency Sprint was previously using for N41.

[greenbastard]

16 hours ago, ingenium said:

My assumption though is that they only have it on older sites. Any new sites definitely don't have it, and there's a chance rebuilt or recently upgraded sites also don't have it.
 

I can confirm that GSM 2G isn't being broadcast from new towers since at least 2016. Only LTE and 3G.

There is another tower currently going up for T-Mobile that is supposed to have massive MIMO for AWS/PCS according to the permits. This was before the merger went through, so I'm actually curious if they will be sticking to the plan or submitting any modifications.

[mdob07]

2 minutes ago, greenbastard said:

I can confirm that GSM 2G isn't being broadcast from new towers since at least 2016. Only LTE and 3G.

There is another tower currently going up for T-Mobile that is supposed to have massive MIMO for AWS/PCS according to the permits. This was before the merger went through, so I'm actually curious if they will be sticking to the plan or submitting any modifications.

Interesting, I'll have to check this new site in Louisville, this one went up about 8 months ago. Not sure if the one panel is M-MIMO or just an AIR type unit. That's Sprint with B41 M-MIMO on the top rack. 

[greenbastard]

13 hours ago, cyclone said:

Not gonna lie, it's quite sad that this is just Sprint 2013's playbook with the "layer cake". That was their approach to 4G with 800, 1900, and 2.5. Just more proof that Sprint should be where T-Mobile is currently, and a testament to their management. While I am excited to FINALLY see this plan get implemented, I am completely nervous about their obsession with Verizon and AT&T. I don't want them to slowly become them...or worse.

The infamous "Triband LTE network" that never got finished. 

[JonnygATL]

30 minutes ago, greenbastard said:

The infamous "Triband LTE network" that never got finished. 

That "spark" fizzled.  But now part of it can serve a bigger purpose. 

[dkyeager]

10 hours ago, Yuhfhrh said:

The latest 3GPP release shows 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, and 40 MHz bandwidth support for N25, N2 still only 5, 10, 15, 20 so I would assume T-Mobile has been dipping their hand in this.

N66 shows support for 5, 10, 15, 20, and 40 MHz. (Not sure why 25 and 30 aren't present.)

Link? I want to poke around some more. Thanks

[dkyeager]

9 hours ago, RedSpark said:

I don't have experience with Shentel areas, but from looking at their earnings reports, they seemed very capable at deploying a network.

I agree with you: Sprint didn't invest enough in site density and placement.

Going forward, 600 MHz will play a substantial role in rural coverage. This is something Sprint's (and T-Mobile's) prior spectrum holdings could have never accomplished on their own.

Sprint has much improved in Ohio in the last few years by tribanding sites.  The problem is they waited until their reputation was trash. Lack of sufficient backhaul also an issue at some sites.  3x3 b26 also has its limits in the northern half of the state. The suburban edge is the area lacking site density.

T-Mobile has addressed some of the backhaul issues. 35x35 600Mhz will be interesting to watch in my market. Another 600Mhz site was just fired up today which took a few seconds of downtime rather than the 30 minutes or so last time.

[dkyeager]

23 hours ago, greenbastard said:

The infamous "Triband LTE network" that never got finished. 

Got ~95% in Ohio right before merger. Basically only the strange sites were left: power towers, etc.

[Yuhfhrh]

1 hour ago, dkyeager said:

Link? I want to poke around some more. Thanks

Correction, it looks like 25 and 30 are there for N66 now.

https://www.sqimway.com/nr_band.php

[dkyeager]

9 hours ago, Yuhfhrh said:

Correction, it looks like 25 and 30 are there for N66 now.

https://www.sqimway.com/nr_band.php

Great news in the chart. Of course both the RRHs/Massive MIMOs and Smartphones must support it. Does not seem to reflect x60 modem specs of 16 CA in charts but that might just be me misreading them.  First time I have seen n26, which still needs 3x3 and 1.4x1.4 (to replace 1x800).

[RedSpark]

16 hours ago, dkyeager said:

Sprint has much improved in Ohio in the last few years by tribanding sites.  The problem is they waited until their reputation was trash. Lack of sufficient backhaul also an issue at some sites.  3x3 b26 also has its limits in the northern half of the state. The suburban edge is the area lacking site density.

T-Mobile has addressed some of the backhaul issues. 35x35 600Mhz will be interesting to watch in my market. Another 600Mhz site was just fired up today which took a few seconds of downtime rather than the 30 minutes or so last time.

You're absolutely right that Sprint couldn't get ahead of its reputation. It never had enough capex to turn the corner. It's crazy to see T-Mobile swoop in with the deep pockets and all the market goodwill it has. I think we're beginning to appreciate all the unrealized potential of Sprint's assets. I'm curious how 600 MHz will perform as well. T-Mobile's lowband holdings have the potential to make it on par with Verizon and AT&T in terms of national coverage and in-building penetration. Also, Sprint's network assets are going from the back of the curve to the leading edge of it. It's pretty remarkable, but sad, to see.

Sounds like they're getting better at lighting up 600 MHz sites.

[Bennyjet29]

https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/05/12/t-mobile-already-eating-verizons-5g-lunch-building-thousands-of-mid-band-sites-a-month/


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