Official Tmobile-Sprint merger discussion thread

[radem]

3 minutes ago, dkyeager said:

It is early. Some of this could also be contractual with tower hands.  Also note that T-Mobile has a far less monolithic approach to sites than Sprint. Many sites only have two bands. (I use NSG and sit near the sites and go though each band.)

I seem to remember that T-Mobile has a complex automated monitoring system that generates regular capacity reports for each of their sites.  The network people use those reports to decide how to boost capacity at or near sites that are already overloaded or getting close to being overloaded along with how to fill coverage gaps.  It then takes time to order the equipment and schedule the work that is required to fix the overload problem or fill the gap.  They do not just throw all their bandwidth up on every site as they properly manage their money.

[dewbertdc]

2 hours ago, radem said:

I seem to remember that T-Mobile has a complex automated monitoring system that generates regular capacity reports for each of their sites.  

Yep, this article speaks about it a little bit: https://www.speedtest.net/insights/blog/new-t-mobile-spectrum-coverage/

Quote

In conjunction with Speedtest Intelligence™ data from Ookla®, T-Mobile developed an engineering model for forecasting both congestion and required capacity at the sector level. This model involves collecting KPIs within the radio network infrastructure and has been, according to T-Mobile, highly accurate.

This effort has led to 71% reduction in congestion, while traffic and customer growth have increased over the past several years. The model is also being used to analyze which T-Mobile and Sprint cell sites to keep to enhance the New T-Mobile cell site portfolio based on network coverage, traffic and spectrum available.

 

[dkyeager]

2 hours ago, radem said:

I seem to remember that T-Mobile has a complex automated monitoring system that generates regular capacity reports for each of their sites.  The network people use those reports to decide how to boost capacity at or near sites that are already overloaded or getting close to being overloaded along with how to fill coverage gaps.  It then takes time to order the equipment and schedule the work that is required to fix the overload problem or fill the gap.  They do not just throw all their bandwidth up on every site as they properly manage their money.

I have not yet made a decision on T-Mobile's approach. Really just noting that it is different than Sprint.

When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Sprint had lots of CAPex at intervals. It has always been short or OPex for a decade plus. So naturally most all sites were upgraded, yet they could not afford adequate backhaul or buy their way out of bad leases or build many new sites. Rumor is Sprint was still paying for some Nextel leases without equipment.   Buying their way out of some 800MHz issues was out of the question unlike T-Mobile with 600MHz and 700MHz.  Sometimes before Covid-19 you would see this with restaurant chains: lots of money to build new trendy restaurants while their old sites were failing.  The end is typically bankruptcy. 

I figure my market, Columbus OH, is a perfect test to see how smart or rigid is T-Mobile networking. Sprint likely has 20% more macro sites (most are co-sites), several hundred more small cells filling RF shadows and coverage gaps. T-Mobile has 600MHz just starting to come on line and lots of mmWave. 

Hard to make mistakes in this type of market which has been leading in growth for decades in this quadrant of the country, but we will be able to measure it against competitors.

[ingenium]

It sure does, which makes me think they're having trouble keeping enough stock of B71/B41 equipment.

Or the permits didn't allow them to install the new equipment? And they have to wait for a revision or new permit to be approved for N71 and N41 equipment.

Depends on his rigid and slow the permitting agency is. I know in Berkeley, CA for example, is on the extreme end. The permits took years to be approved (and are quite detailed. Many many pages with engineering diagrams, structural diagrams, etc). I know of one site there that when it finally got B41 (late during the deployment, but the first site in Berkeley with it), the permit that was used still referenced Lightsquared / Ligado equipment. That's how long it took for the permit to go through. So I wouldn't be surprised if they had to wait a couple months for a permit in more normal areas.

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[Bennyjet29]

Or the permits didn't allow them to install the new equipment? And they have to wait for a revision or new permit to be approved for N71 and N41 equipment.

Depends on his rigid and slow the permitting agency is. I know in Berkeley, CA for example, is on the extreme end. The permits took years to be approved (and are quite detailed. Many many pages with engineering diagrams, structural diagrams, etc). I know of one site there that when it finally got B41 (late during the deployment, but the first site in Berkeley with it), the permit that was used still referenced Lightsquared / Ligado equipment. That's how long it took for the permit to go through. So I wouldn't be surprised if they had to wait a couple months for a permit in more normal areas.

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I agree with Ingenium,

That makes a lot of sense and explains why New T-Mobile’s hands are tied at certain sites.


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[Bennyjet29]

https://www.pcmag.com/news/what-the-sprintt-mobile-merger-means-for-sprint-customers


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[Terrell352]

T-Mobile 5G working great my way. Broke upload and download records on all carriers here.

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[Tengen31]

T-Mobile 5G working great my way. Broke upload and download records on all carriers here.

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Is LAA part of that?

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[Terrell352]

Is LAA part of that?

 

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No. B66 20mhz + N71 10mhz +B71 15mhz. Its not a rural area either so that's odd.

It also has B12 at 5mhz

 

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[mdob07]

6 minutes ago, Terrell352 said:

T-Mobile 5G working great my way. Broke upload and download records on all carriers here.

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wow, phenomenal upload speeds! Do you know if that is using uplink CA?

[Terrell352]

wow, phenomenal upload speeds! Do you know if that is using uplink CA?

I think its using B66+N71 upload CA.

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[Tengen31]

I think its using B66+N71 upload CA.

 

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It's got to atleast be 66+2 LTE plus n71 to hit that high for that DL

 

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[Terrell352]

It's got to atleast be 66+2 LTE plus n71 to hit that high for that DL 
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That tower is completely missing B2. But before B71 came online 2 weeks ago it was 20mhz of B66+B12 only. With peak speeds at late night of about 200mbps.

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[Tengen31]

That tower is completely missing B2. But before B71 came online 2 weeks ago it was 20mhz of B66+B12 only. With peak speeds at late night of about 200mbps.

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Dam has to be 256 qam on 66 then.

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[Terrell352]

Dam has to be 256 qam on 66 then.

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For sure. Its using N71 and B71 at the same time. For a total of 25mhz+20mhzof b66/4

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[Tengen31]

For sure. Its using N71 and B71 at the same time. For a total of 25mhz+20mhzof b66/4

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Oh that makes more since then

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[Member21]

19 hours ago, Bennyjet29 said:

https://www.pcmag.com/news/what-the-sprintt-mobile-merger-means-for-sprint-customers


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Springboarding off this article, I wanted to further explore the question of: will folks with older Sprint phones, such at the iPhone 6 eventually be forced to get a new phone to be able to make phone calls?  As the article says, CDMA will be shut down on 12/31/21. So, will phone calls be shut down on the example Sprint iPhone 6 on 12/31/21? Or will either or both of the following scenarios play out:

-I believe Sprint phones have had GSM hardware for many years, mainly to allow the phone to make phone calls while roaming internationally (say in Europe, which I believe never had any CDMA carriers).  So, would New T-Mobile allow the example Sprint iPhone 6 to make GSM calls?  Or will GSM for calls itself be shut down and thus all calls will be on VoLTE?

-With regard to VoLTE on Sprint phones, it's been for iPhone 8 & newer and Galaxy S8 and newer.  However, I know that phones as old as say the iPhone 6 have the hardware for VoLTE (my company provided iPhone 6 on Verizon had it and it worked well).  Sprint seems to be only enabling VoLTE on said newer phones.  So, would New T-Mobile enable VoLTE on the hardware capable example Sprint iPhone 6?

Not expecting anyone to have the answer to this, but perhaps a best guess?

[Bennyjet29]

Springboarding off this article, I wanted to further explore the question of: will folks with older Sprint phones, such at the iPhone 6 eventually be forced to get a new phone to be able to make phone calls?  As the article says, CDMA will be shut down on 12/31/21. So, will phone calls be shut down on the example Sprint iPhone 6 on 12/31/21? Or will either or both of the following scenarios play out:
-I believe Sprint phones have had GSM hardware for many years, mainly to allow the phone to make phone calls while roaming internationally (say in Europe, which I believe never had any CDMA carriers).  So, would New T-Mobile allow the example Sprint iPhone 6 to make GSM calls?  Or will GSM for calls itself be shut down and thus all calls will be on VoLTE?
-With regard to VoLTE on Sprint phones, it's been for iPhone 8 & newer and Galaxy S8 and newer.  However, I know that phones as old as say the iPhone 6 have the hardware for VoLTE (my company provided iPhone 6 on Verizon had it and it worked well).  Sprint seems to be only enabling VoLTE on said newer phones.  So, would New T-Mobile enable VoLTE on the hardware capable example Sprint iPhone 6?
Not expecting anyone to have the answer to this, but perhaps a best guess?

The VoLTE on the iPhone 6 is a good question but if I were to make a guess, I would probably say they would only enable it on the iPhone 8 series on up. To my knowledge, the iPhone 6 is unable to download the new iOS updates aka Apple’s clever way to making us folks have to buy a newer device every 3-4 years. Now that the iPhone 8 is no longer sold, I would not doubt New T-Mobile offering incentives on the new iPhone SE and 11. You have to take into account that they will be looking forward for opportunities to steadily move Sprint customers onto T-Mobile plans.


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[derrph]

This came up in the YouTube recommendations. Granted this video is a year old. The date has come and gone.

 

 

 

 

 

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[Tengen31]

This came up in the YouTube recommendations. Granted this video is a year old.

http://



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Did Dish actually do that by March 2020? No

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[derrph]

Did Dish actually do that by March 2020? No

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Exactly. I had to chuckle when I heard them say that date.


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[greenbastard]

4 hours ago, Member21 said:

will folks with older Sprint phones, such at the iPhone 6 eventually be forced to get a new phone to be able to make phone calls?  

As far as the iPhone 6 goes, I doubt they'll force anyone to get a new iPhone. The iPhone 6 supports band 2 and 4. There are plenty of iPhone 6 still out in the wild on T-Mobile.

I just don't see how they can justify forcing Sprint users out of the iPhone 6, but leave current T-Mobile users on them. It wouldn't make sense or be fair.

[ingenium]

As far as the iPhone 6 goes, I doubt they'll force anyone to get a new iPhone. The iPhone 6 supports band 2 and 4. There are plenty of iPhone 6 still out in the wild on T-Mobile.
I just don't see how they can justify forcing Sprint users out of the iPhone 6, but leave current T-Mobile users on them. It wouldn't make sense or be fair.

T-mobile plans to shutdown GSM on 12/31/20, and shutdown 3G/HSPA on 12/31/21 I believe. So as of 2022, calls will only be possible on VoLTE/VoNR.

Does the iPhone 6 support VoLTE on T-Mobile? If so, it should be easy for them to move Sprint users over as T-mobile customers, and then they'd get VoLTE. Worst case it would require a SIM swap. If it doesn't support VoLTE on T-Mobile now, then anyone without a VoLTE capable phone (Sprint or T-mobile) will need new phones come 2022. At least if they want to have calls.

2022 will be the end for people with legacy phones. AT&T is shutting down their 3G then as well. There will be no 3G networks left, LTE and NR only. I wonder how they'll handle the regulations that a phone can use any network that it sees for 911 calls, if those networks are all VoLTE only. Roaming will also be interesting, especially for foreign visitors whose home networks may not support VoLTE.

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[chamb]

1 hour ago, ingenium said:

I wonder how they'll handle the regulations that a phone can use any network that it sees for 911 calls, if those networks are all VoLTE only. Roaming will also be interesting, especially for foreign visitors whose home networks may not support VoLTE.

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Foreign visitors can grab a cheapie Prepaid phone for their limited time visit. 

[dkyeager]

2 hours ago, ingenium said:

T-mobile plans to shutdown GSM on 12/31/20, and shutdown 3G/HSPA on 12/31/21 I believe. So as of 2022, calls will only be possible on VoLTE/VoNR.

Does the iPhone 6 support VoLTE on T-Mobile? If so, it should be easy for them to move Sprint users over as T-mobile customers, and then they'd get VoLTE. Worst case it would require a SIM swap. If it doesn't support VoLTE on T-Mobile now, then anyone without a VoLTE capable phone (Sprint or T-mobile) will need new phones come 2022. At least if they want to have calls.

2022 will be the end for people with legacy phones. AT&T is shutting down their 3G then as well. There will be no 3G networks left, LTE and NR only. I wonder how they'll handle the regulations that a phone can use any network that it sees for 911 calls, if those networks are all VoLTE only. Roaming will also be interesting, especially for foreign visitors whose home networks may not support VoLTE.

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1 hour ago, chamb said:

Foreign visitors can grab a cheapie Prepaid phone for their limited time visit. 

What about the lesser carriers in the country? Are you guys certain that evry last one of them will no longer support 3g? Could be a new way to lock in customers.