Everything 800mhz (1xA, LTE, coverage, timeline, etc)

[Deval]

^{Given the size of Sprint's 800 Mhz spectrum holdings (they can't fit MORE than a 5x5 LTE carrier there, even if they got rid of the 1xA carrier), I don't know why they'd be in any hurry to get rid of the 1xA carrier on 800Mhz.}

Why would they get rid of that 1xA carrier?

[bmoses]

Keep in mind that if it is a SID boundary -- hence, a transition between MSCs -- then the call may still drop.

 

AJ

 

is the SID reported by CDMA field test accurate? (right now it says 4124) If so next time i'm connected to the tower they would be switching too i'll see if the SID is the same or not.

[WiWavelength]

is the SID reported by CDMA field test accurate? (right now it says 4124) If so next time i'm connected to the tower they would be switching too i'll see if the SID is the same or not.

 

It is probably not a SID boundary, but what is the location?

 

AJ

[bmoses]

It is probably not a SID boundary, but what is the location?

 

AJ

 

here is a post i made about it awhile back, its got a map with the tower locations and approximate location of the call dropping.

[WiWavelength]

here is a post i made about it awhile back, its got a map with the tower locations and approximate location of the call dropping.

 

No, that is not a SID boundary.  Your closest SID boundaries along I-35 and I-80 are halfway to Council Bluffs for the Omaha MTA, the Missouri state line for the Kansas City MTA, and the Minnesota state line for the Minneapolis MTA.  But it may be an old NID boundary between Sprint corporate and iPCS affiliate.

 

I am not familiar with the coverage north of Des Moines, but south of Des Moines, the old NID boundary between Sprint and iPCS along I-35 was, if I recall correctly, the Polk County line -- surprisingly close to the southern edge of the suburbs.  For technical and billing reasons, corporate and affiliate typically did not hand off to each other.  And to prevent overlap, site spacing at corporate/affiliate market boundaries was often significant.

 

Now, the only sticking point is that I am not sure the location in question is the former corporate/affiliate NID boundary north on I-35.  If so, then Ames was affiliate.  Does anyone remember if Sprint let iPCS have Ames?

 

AJ

[bmoses]

No, that is not a SID boundary.  Your closest SID boundaries along I-35 and I-80 are halfway to Council Bluffs for the Omaha MTA, the Missouri state line for the Kansas City MTA, and the Minnesota state line for the Minneapolis MTA.  But it may be an old NID boundary between Sprint corporate and iPCS affiliate.

 

I am not familiar with the coverage north of Des Moines, but south of Des Moines, the old NID boundary between Sprint and iPCS along I-35 was, if I recall correctly, the Polk County line -- surprisingly close to the southern edge of the suburbs.  For technical and billing reasons, corporate and affiliate typically did not hand off to each other.  And to prevent overlap, site spacing at corporate/affiliate market boundaries was often significant.

 

Now, the only sticking point is that I am not sure the location in question is the former corporate/affiliate NID boundary north on I-35.  If so, then Ames was affiliate.  Does anyone remember if Sprint let iPCS have Ames?

 

AJ

 

interesting info..... the place the call drops is almost exactly the county border between polk and story counties. so assuming this is some kind of NID boundary and that is what is causing the call drop will that change with NV getting installed?

 

i always just assumed it was tower spacing at that location and 1900 not being able to reach far enough to handoff from tower to tower.

[mozamcrew]

Why would they get rid of that 1xA carrier?

I don't think they would, that's exactly my point. Even in 10 years when all the new phones are doing VoLTE, dropping the 1xA carrier on ESMR won't give them enough additional spectrum to enlarge their 5x5 LTE carrier on ESMR. My guess is that this would be the very last CDMA carrier that Sprint will get rid of.

[ericdabbs]

I don't think they would, that's exactly my point. Even in 10 years when all the new phones are doing VoLTE, dropping the 1xA carrier on ESMR won't give them enough additional spectrum to enlarge their 5x5 LTE carrier on ESMR. My guess is that this would be the very last CDMA carrier that Sprint will get rid of.

 

I agree that the ESMR 1xA carrier would be the last CDMA carrier that Sprint would get rid of.  Since Sprint has 7x7 (14 MHz) of ESMR spectrum in most areas of the country, I wonder if they could at some point refarm that last CDMA carrier to deploy a 1.4 x 1.4 MHz LTE carrier.  The spectrum needed is just slightly larger than a CDMA carrier (1.25 x 1.25 MHz)

[Deval]

I agree that the ESMR 1xA carrier would be the last CDMA carrier that Sprint would get rid of.  Since Sprint has 7x7 (14 MHz) of ESMR spectrum in most areas of the country, I wonder if they could at some point refarm that last CDMA carrier to deploy a 1.4 x 1.4 MHz LTE carrier.  The spectrum needed is just slightly larger than a CDMA carrier (1.25 x 1.25 MHz)

You need to factor in guard bands on each end.

[mozamcrew]

I agree that the ESMR 1xA carrier would be the last CDMA carrier that Sprint would get rid of.  Since Sprint has 7x7 (14 MHz) of ESMR spectrum in most areas of the country, I wonder if they could at some point refarm that last CDMA carrier to deploy a 1.4 x 1.4 MHz LTE carrier.  The spectrum needed is just slightly larger than a CDMA carrier (1.25 x 1.25 MHz)

 

Maybe in this case, they'd refarm the ESMR so they had a pair of 3x3 LTE carriers, instead of 5x5 LTE and a 1xA (1.25x1.25). How big do the guard bands need to be?

[ericdabbs]

You need to factor in guard bands on each end.

 

I understand.  However I believe the guard band required for CDMA are more stringent than they are for LTE.  I don't think that an extra 150 KHz is going to be a deal breaker.  I believe CDMA needs 625 KHz guard band while LTE needs about 225 KHz guard band.  I know someone will correct me if I am wrong.

[WiWavelength]

You need to factor in guard bands on each end.

How big do the guard bands need to be?

 

No, 3GPP airlinks do not require additional guard bands.  In a Eurasian spectrum centric move, they already include internal guard bands.  A 5 MHz FDD LTE carrier, for example, occupies really only 4.5 MHz.  To illustrate, see my spectrum analyzer sweep in the RSRP article:

 

http://s4gru.com/index.php?/blog/1/entry-308-rssi-vs-rsrp-a-brief-lte-signal-strength-primer/

 

AJ

[mozamcrew]

No, 3GPP airlinks do not require additional guard bands.  In a Eurasian spectrum centric move, they already include internal guard bands.  A 5 MHz FDD LTE carrier, for example, occupies really only 4.5 MHz.  To illustrate, see my spectrum analyzer sweep in the RSRP article:

 

http://s4gru.com/index.php?/blog/1/entry-308-rssi-vs-rsrp-a-brief-lte-signal-strength-primer/

 

AJ

So the question becomes, with 14Mhz of spectrum, would Sprint opt to add a 1.4x1.4 LTE carrier after they drop the 1xA carrier, or would they refarm to something like a pair of 3x3 LTE carriers on ESMR? Too bad you can't do a 7x7 carrier on LTE....

[ericdabbs]

So the question becomes, with 14Mhz of spectrum, would Sprint opt to add a 1.4x1.4 LTE carrier after they drop the 1xA carrier, or would they refarm to something like a pair of 3x3 LTE carriers on ESMR? Too bad you can't do a 7x7 carrier on LTE....

 

I guess for me, my thinking is ...why waste that 800 MHz RRU when its eventually going to be providing 1 LTE carrier (5x5) when it can easily provide 2 LTE carriers (5x5 and 1.4x1.4 or a pair of 3x3).  I think any extra capacity at 800 MHz would be welcomed. The new base stations can easily accommodate that.  

 

However I think the costs of extra LTE carrier card may end up outweighing the benefits of deploying an additional 1.4x1.4 or 3x3 LTE carrier.  I hope I am wrong and we do end up getting a pair of 3x3 LTE carriers at 800 MHz.

[Deval]

No, 3GPP airlinks do not require additional guard bands.  In a Eurasian spectrum centric move, they already include internal guard bands.  A 5 MHz FDD LTE carrier, for example, occupies really only 4.5 MHz.  To illustrate, see my spectrum analyzer sweep in the RSRP article:

 

http://s4gru.com/index.php?/blog/1/entry-308-rssi-vs-rsrp-a-brief-lte-signal-strength-primer/

 

AJ

 

AJ, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Sprint's eSMR holdings require guardbands on each end?

[ericdabbs]

AJ, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Sprint's eSMR holdings require guardbands on each end?

 

I think what AJ is saying is that a 5 MHz LTE carrier has a internal guard band already since its only has 4.5 MHz of actual signal and the remaining 0.5 MHz is the guard band.  I saw AJ's article he linked and you can see that from 1990-1995 MHz, both sides of it doesn't have signal until about 250 KHz on both sides and that is the internal guard band.  It seems to me like every LTE carrier has a internal guard band and I would think that a 10 MHz LTE carrier only has 9.5 MHz of actual signal.

 

Why would you need another guard band on both sides if the LTE carrier itself has a internal guard band?  As long as the signals on both sides don't interfere with each other it should be good.  I don't believe ESMR has any special rules about having additional guard bands just as long as it has one.  CDMA/EVDO is different and needs a 625 KHz guard band on both sides since the carrier itself does not have a guard band.

[ChadBroChillz]

He is probably thinking of the guard band that separates Sprint SMR from Public Safety SMR. 

 

 

[WiWavelength]

It seems to me like every LTE carrier has a internal guard band and I would think that a 10 MHz LTE carrier only has 9.5 MHz of actual signal.

Actually, it is 9 MHz occupied bandwidth. A 10 MHz FDD LTE carrier has twice as many subcarriers as a 5 MHz FDD carrier does, so just double everything. Then, triple for 15 MHz FDD, quadruple for 20 MHz FDD.

 

CDMA/EVDO is different and needs a 625 KHz guard band on both sides since the carrier itself does not have a guard band.

CDMA2000 does not require guard bands to be 625 kHz. That is just how the math works with 1.25 MHz carrier channels in typical PCS 1900 MHz license blocks in multiples of 5 MHz.  Guard bands are either 625 kHz or zero.

 

In Cellular 850 MHz, though, 275 kHz was the typical guard band separation between CDMA1X and AMPS control channels, which were exceedingly important to be protected.

 

AJ

[Rukin1]

When Nextel is officially shut down. When will Sprint start with the LTE800? I already know voice/3G800 here is officially live. So I am assuming every Nextel tower here has been shutdown and what not. I know the Nextel tower behind my apartment got removed last summer and Verizon added a rack below Nextels empty rack. I was hoping Sprint would sometime replace Nextel's spot :/

While I'm on 800,since it's officially live. Here are the results:

1..5 years ago:

Oct.2 2012:

Today:

[dmaxx67]

When IDEN shuts down does sprint have to go to each site and turn on 800 or is it a remote activate setup?

[dmaxx67]

Disregard previous posts I read the iden shutdown thread and got all my answers there. Sorry for my ignorance.

[dmaxx67]

Does sprint use a certain company for their backhaul or do they just use whoever is in the area and can meet their specs?

[SpenceSouth]

Does sprint use a certain company for their backhaul or do they just use whoever is in the area and can meet their specs?

 

My impression was that it varied from area to area based on whoever could meet their specs.

[MacinJosh]

 

 

Does sprint use a certain company for their backhaul or do they just use whoever is in the area and can meet their specs?

 

 

My impression was that it varied from area to area based on whoever could meet their specs.

Whoever also has the best price too, and can install it the soonest.

 

 

Sent from Josh's iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2

[dmaxx67]

Anyone with an LG Optimus G seen some 800 signals yet?