Network Vision/LTE - New York City Market

[lilotimz]

I think NY is one of the more far ahead states. Nearly all of its GMO sites have work done already and are waiting for 4G which will happen later. NYC is good because it is one of the few cities where we are geting both 3G and 4G upgrades. In Miami for example the company responsible for the network in that area (I don't know if it is Ericsson or Samsung) prefer to do 4G upgrades and the legacy network is still in poor shape because they don't upgrade the 3G. Alcatel Lucent is doing a good job of getting the North East and New England done. That is why they are further ahead than Samsung and Ericsson.

 

That is incorrect. All three vendors are doing 4g and 3g upgrades but in a different manner. Ericsson and Samsung tends to bring 4G up first (if possible) due to the fact they do not have to care much for interference issues as LTE 1900 has never been deployed and they don't have to go trouble shooting for coverage issues such as working on EVDO 3g.  Thus Ericsson and Samsung launches 4g predominately first or 4g/3g at the same time in areas where they do not have to launch in clusters. In high density areas, they'll have to launch 3g in clusters in order to minimize impact to customers.

 

On the other hand, Alcatel-Lucent does 3g upgrades first and then 4g upgrades. Doing so gets the physical work done at a tower quickly regardless of the backhaul situation as they can and will utilize legacy backhaul for 3g whereas 4g can only be accepted with upgraded backhaul. Alcatel-Lucent also does 3g launches in clusters iirc.

[Paynefanbro]

That is incorrect. All three vendors are doing 4g and 3g upgrades but in a different manner. Ericsson and Samsung tends to bring 4G up first (if possible) due to the fact they do not have to care much for interference issues as LTE 1900 has never been deployed and they don't have to go trouble shooting for coverage issues such as working on EVDO 3g.  Thus Ericsson and Samsung launches 4g predominately first or 4g/3g at the same time in areas where they do not have to launch in clusters. In high density areas, they'll have to launch 3g in clusters in order to minimize impact to customers.

 

On the other hand, Alcatel-Lucent does 3g upgrades first and then 4g upgrades. Doing so gets the physical work done at a tower quickly regardless of the backhaul situation as they can and will utilize legacy backhaul for 3g whereas 4g can only be accepted with upgraded backhaul. Alcatel-Lucent also does 3g launches in clusters iirc.

I see what you mean, but that didn't distract from the point I made. I don't exactly see what I wrote that was incorrect.

[lilotimz]

I think NY is one of the more far ahead states. Nearly all of its GMO sites have work done already and are waiting for 4G which will happen later. NYC is good because it is one of the few cities where we are geting both 3G and 4G upgrades. In Miami for example the company responsible for the network in that area (I don't know if it is Ericsson or Samsung) prefer to do 4G upgrades and the legacy network is still in poor shape because they don't upgrade the 3G. Alcatel Lucent is doing a good job of getting the North East and New England done. That is why they are further ahead than Samsung and Ericsson.

 

Your message states that the other vendors do not care about upgrading 3g and only focus on 4g which is incorrect. All cell sites in every city and rural area is getting 3g/4g upgrades. Vendors just do it in different orders.

[Paynefanbro]

Your message states that the other vendors do not care about upgrading 3g and only focus on 4g which is incorrect. 

I never said they don't care, I said they "prefer" to do 4G upgrades first.

[LTEBrooklyn]

I happen to like the Alcatel way, 3G first then LTE later. It gives the users more spread out usability.

[IsaiahL]

Your message states that the other vendors do not care about upgrading 3g and only focus on 4g which is incorrect. All cell sites in every city and rural area is getting 3g/4g upgrades. Vendors just do it in different orders.

So EVERY single cell site that Sprint has is going to upgraded with 3G & 4G is going to be added ? Are they going to build up more towers as well or are they just going to upgrade & leave it at that .

[NYCHitman1]

So EVERY single cell site that Sprint has is going to upgraded with 3G & 4G is going to be added ? Are they going to build up more towers as well or are they just going to upgrade & leave it at that .

IIRC, no new towers will be built. However, a majority of towers should be upgraded to support NV-standard 3G/4G.

[IsaiahL]

IIRC, no new towers will be built. However, a majority of towers should be upgraded to support NV-standard 3G/4G.

 

Do you think Cell signal strength will improve for example , remember I said when I was in between towns Upstate my phone would drop to the extended network will that continue to happen.

[digiblur]

I never said they don't care, I said they "prefer" to do 4G upgrades first.

 

Actually now I've seen Ericsson doing the opposite in our area.  The site will be 3G accepted then a few days later 4G accepted. 

[TonyStylesNYC]

Do you think Cell signal strength will improve for example , remember I said when I was in between towns Upstate my phone would drop to the extended network will that continue to happen.

 

Yeah the key will be 800. There will be no new towers but evey upgraded tower will be broadcasting a 800 mhz signal so the range of the signal will be larger and stronger so you will get better signals further away from towers with less interferenceand and stonger signals in buildings etc. At&T and Verizon were the only two companies that could broadcast on spectrum that low but now sprint can as well. It will help you roam less and connect to sprint 800 if you have a phone thats compatable. (iphone 5 evo lte s3 or s4 etc.)

[IsaiahL]

Yeah the key will be 800. There will be no new towers but evey upgraded tower will be broadcasting a 800 mhz signal so the range of the signal will be larger and stronger so you will get better signals further away from towers with less interferenceand and stonger signals in buildings etc. At&T and Verizon were the only two companies that could broadcast on spectrum that low but now sprint can as well. It will help you roam less and connect to sprint 800 if you have a phone thats compatable. (iphone 5 evo lte s3 or s4 etc.)

The iPhone 5 is compatible with Sprint's 800 idk I had researched it & the information that i found said that the iPhone wasn't compatible .

[digiblur]

The iPhone 5 is compatible with Sprint's 800 idk I had researched it & the information that i found said that the iPhone wasn't compatible .

 

Not sure I understand your contradicting run on sentence but the Iphone5 is 800SMR capable for 1X.  What differs between other Android phones though is the Iphone5 will actively scan for a PCS signal and only use the 800SMR if a PCS signal is not available.  Android phones will use the 800SMR all the time providing a more seamless coverage experience.    

[IsaiahL]

Not sure I understand your contradicting run on sentence but the Iphone5 is 800SMR capable for 1X. What differs between other Android phones though is the Iphone5 will actively scan for a PCS signal and only use the 800SMR if a PCS signal is not available. Android phones will use the 800SMR all the time providing a more seamless coverage experience.

Maybe Apple will change that in the iPhone 5S , its said to have some serious upgrades .

Edited May 29, 2013 by IsaiahL

[digiblur]

 

Not sure I understand your contradicting run on sentence but the Iphone5 is 800SMR capable for 1X. What differs between other Android phones though is the Iphone5 will actively scan for a PCS signal and only use the 800SMR if a PCS signal is not available. Android phones will use the 800SMR all the time providing a more seamless coverage experience.

 

Maybe Apple will change that in the iPhone 5S , its said to have some serious upgrades .

Sprint made that decision in the PRL when they finally broke it off of the series the other international roaming were on. Those phones then had 800smr enabled as the shackles were released. The Iphone then got its own special PRL with the 800SMR as a fall back.

 

Sent from my little Note2

 

 

[Mobilesolutions]

I'm guessing officially announced by the summer, but as for complete NYC, I would say at the end of 2013.

That sounds pretty spot on with the reports from yesterday, November completion time for NYC with full outdoor coverage by August/September.  

 

So EVERY single cell site that Sprint has is going to upgraded with 3G & 4G is going to be added ? Are they going to build up more towers as well or are they just going to upgrade & leave it at that .

 

Yes, 38,000 cell sites are being entirely overhauled.  Probably very little if any new towers will be added; we will see if Softbank has any plans to expand coverage later on down the road. 

Do you think Cell signal strength will improve for example , remember I said when I was in between towns Upstate my phone would drop to the extended network will that continue to happen.

800mhz will really shine indoors, on today's Sprint 1900 mhz network in building performance is mediocre at best.  With the lower frequency and a wider 1x channel in building performance for voice calls, and texts will rival verizon/At&t.  Excellent coverage in malls, homes, office buildings, etc.  Also, 800mhz is coming to Lte for Sprint...hopefully soon. 

 

Actually now I've seen Ericsson doing the opposite in our area.  The site will be 3G accepted then a few days later 4G accepted. 

There is no method to this madness!!

[IsaiahL]

That sounds pretty spot on with the reports from yesterday, November completion time for NYC with full outdoor coverage by August/September.

 

 

Yes, 38,000 cell sites are being entirely overhauled. Probably very little if any new towers will be added; we will see if Softbank has any plans to expand coverage later on down the road.

800mhz will really shine indoors, on today's Sprint 1900 mhz network in building performance is mediocre at best. With the lower frequency and a wider 1x channel in building performance for voice calls, and texts will rival verizon/At&t. Excellent coverage in malls, homes, office buildings, etc. Also, 800mhz is coming to Lte for Sprint...hopefully soon.

 

They need to expand coverage , I think if Sprint added more towers speeds would be better too .

[Mobilesolutions]

Expanding coverage wont do all too much for speeds. 5x5 configuration is limited to 37mbps down. As far as adding towers and.covering less dense markets, at 40-70k dollars per site don't count on it.

[lilotimz]

Expanding coverage wont do all too much for speeds. 5x5 configuration is limited to 37mbps down. As far as adding towers and.covering less dense markets, at 40-70k dollars per site don't count on it.

It's actually in the range of 250k -> 1 million dollar per new cell site once you take into the cost of building it (easily $120-150k for physical work) then you gotta get the backhaul (another $50-100k depending on availability and ease to get it) and negotiating lease with the owner of the location you put the cell site on ($$$$). There's a reason T-mobile will not touch the rural sites before the urban sites.

[Dkoellerwx]

They need to expand coverage , I think if Sprint added more towers speeds would be better too .

 

Maybe in rural areas, but in NYC, Sprint already has plenty of towers to provide great coverage once the towers are upgraded. One tower in a rural environment can cover up to ten miles away. When you pack 4 or 5 of those into just a couple of blocks, you have fantastic coverage, the buildings just make it tough. 800 will do a lot for that. You will notice a fairly significant increase in coverage once it is live.

[Paynefanbro]

The density of cell sites in NYC is greater than what is actually needed of a PCS network in general. If Clear were to place their TD-LTE on every tower in NYC, the LTE network in NYC would be absolutely insane...outdoors.

[Deval]

The density of cell sites in NYC is greater than what is actually needed of a PCS network in general. If Clear were to place their TD-LTE on every tower in NYC, the LTE network in NYC would be absolutely insane...outdoors.

 

Yeah, keyword is outdoors. The PCS tower spacing causes issues in Queens and Brooklyn where you have so many brick buildings tightly packed together. 

[Mobilesolutions]

It's actually in the range of 250k -> 1 million dollar per new cell site once you take into the cost of building it (easily $120-150k for physical work) then you gotta get the backhaul (another $50-100k depending on availability and ease to get it) and negotiating lease with the owner of the location you put the cell site on ($$$$). There's a reason T-mobile will not touch the rural sites before the urban sites.

You are right, but in many locations Sprint has been successfully able to Co-locate with other providers; as the towers are often owned by a 3rd party.  I should have specified, by adding towers i did not mean erect new ones, i only was speaking leasing "rack space" and installing provider equipment.  Backhaul is another expensive purchase in itself. 

 

The density of cell sites in NYC is greater than what is actually needed of a PCS network in general. If Clear were to place their TD-LTE on every tower in NYC, the LTE network in NYC would be absolutely insane...outdoors.

So take that spacing and put SMR Lte on 80% of those sites and extend high speed data coverage indoors,Clear puts 20MHZ of 2.6 ghz on every wimax site NYC will have a blanket of super high speed wireless coverage outdoors.  Bam, Sprint beats Verizon & AT&T 

[Paynefanbro]

You are right, but in many locations Sprint has been successfully able to Co-locate with other providers; as the towers are often owned by a 3rd party.  I should have specified, by adding towers i did not mean erect new ones, i only was speaking leasing "rack space" and installing provider equipment.  Backhaul is another expensive purchase in itself. 

 

 

So take that spacing and put SMR Lte on 80% of those sites and extend high speed data coverage indoors,Clear puts 20MHZ of 2.6 ghz on every wimax site NYC will have a blanket of super high speed wireless coverage outdoors.  Bam, Sprint beats Verizon & AT&T 

Not just every WiMax site, I think Softbank plans on putting it on every PCS site!

 

Edit: I changed it to Softbank. It said softball before!

[Mobilesolutions]

Not just every WiMax site, I think Softball plans on putting it on every PCS site!

I would certainly hope so.  Otherwise many areas would never see an TDD-LTE, protection sites would never be able to blanket the masses. 

[NYCHitman1]

Not just every WiMax site, I think Softbank plans on putting it on every PCS site!

 

Edit: I changed it to Softbank. It said softball before!

I anticipate that Spank will be bringing the heat once the merger is finalized.