Dish Network/Boost Mobile cell/5G buildout thread

[red_dog007]

To meet their build out deadlines, is there an estimate on how many towers Dish needs?

For that size footprint, is there any estimate of how many customers at their current ARPU for Dish to just be able to break even?

They have thousands of towers out but still really don't have anyone riding their airwaves.

[dkyeager]

8 hours ago, red_dog007 said:

To meet their build out deadlines, is there an estimate on how many towers Dish needs?

For that size footprint, is there any estimate of how many customers at their current ARPU for Dish to just be able to break even?

They have thousands of towers out but still really don't have anyone riding their airwaves.

I believe they are focused on #1.  They really need VoNR working, especially with a phone that has n70, to get people on their airwaves.

[red_dog007]

It seems VoNR is more difficult to implement than VoLTE. Why is that?

[dkyeager]

1 hour ago, red_dog007 said:

It seems VoNR is more difficult to implement than VoLTE. Why is that?

It is interesting that T-Mobile has not announced any increases in VoNR devices or markets.

Dish really wants to offer all 5g services thus VoNR is essential.

If we look back at VoLTE early day issues, they were reportedly density (which was largely solved by several low bands), new switches, and new VoLTE standard "codecs". Wonder if we will have to wait for the x75 modem in the s24?

Hopefully people more knowledgeable than me will comment on this.

 

[Yuhfhrh]

10 hours ago, red_dog007 said:

It seems VoNR is more difficult to implement than VoLTE. Why is that?

I think the main issue is the lack of demand for it. Barely any focus is being put on it since VoLTE accomplishes the job, not many SA NR networks exist today, and there aren't any notable benefits of VoNR compared to VoLTE. Dish is a rare example of a carrier who desperately needs it due to their NR-only deployment, but the vast majority of carriers globally are content with VoLTE.

[PythonFanPA]

 

https://ir.dish.com/news-releases/news-release-details/dish-wireless-launches-virtual-open-ran-5g-network-samsung

[dkyeager]

Dish statement on outage from website second page https://www.dish.com/statement:

Thank you for your patience

 

On February 23, we experienced a cybersecurity incident that has affected some of our internal communications, customer call centers, and internet sites. We immediately activated our incident response and business continuity plans to contain, assess and remediate the situation. We retained the services of cybersecurity experts and outside advisors to assist in the evaluation of the situation, and we notified appropriate law enforcement authorities. 

 

On February 27, we became aware that certain data was extracted from our IT systems as part of this incident. It’s possible the investigation will reveal that the extracted data includes personal information. The forensic investigation and assessment of the impact of this incident is ongoing. The security of our customers’ data is important to us, and if we learn that information was compromised, we’ll take the appropriate steps and let any impacted customers know.

 

As a result of this incident, many of our customers are having trouble reaching our service desks, accessing their accounts, and making payments. We’re making progress on the customer service front every day, including ramping up our call capacity, but it will take a little time before things are fully restored. DISH TV continues to operate and is up and running.

[dkyeager]

Systems are starting to come back to life:

 

[dkyeager]

https://www.rcrwireless.com/20230307/5g/dish-testing-the-800-mhz-waters

Moving the band 26 option to likely.

[radem]

1 minute ago, dkyeager said:

https://www.rcrwireless.com/20230307/5g/dish-testing-the-800-mhz-waters

Moving the band 26 option to likely.

I would expect Dish to purchase the 800mhz and use that spectrum as the collateral for much of the purchase.  It may be that T-Mobile would even hold the loan on this deal with the requirement that if Dish defaults on the loan, T-Mobile would get the spectrum back.

[dkyeager]

35 minutes ago, radem said:

I would expect Dish to purchase the 800mhz and use that spectrum as the collateral for much of the purchase.  It may be that T-Mobile would even hold the loan on this deal with the requirement that if Dish defaults on the loan, T-Mobile would get the spectrum back.

I could see that, with Dish getting a very favorable interest rate.

[dkyeager]

Despite Dish's claims, I am not certain they are back to normal:

 

https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/dishs-cybersecurity-problems-drag-stock-5-year-low

 

 

[dkyeager]

Predicts a dramatic increase in Dish's Boost Mobile churn: https://www.lightreading.com/security/dish-hack-expected-to-cut-into-q1-subscriber-tally/d/d-id/783926?  Would not surprise me if this end up being one of the most expensive hacks ever.  This article makes mention of up to $1.5 Billion.

[dkyeager]

The end of this article basically supports Dish's strategy: https://www.telecompetitor.com/financial-analysts-cable-is-a-bigger-threat-to-wireless-than-wireless-is-to-cable/

Of course execution and timing may even be more important.

[S4GRU]

Dish is finally building out my home tower near Olympia, Washington.  They extended the tower height by 8'.  Seems to be a common way Dish is getting on towers around here.  Not a common strategy from other providers in the past.  I imagine it's pretty expensive to do it that way.  Engineering, structural design, construction, more extensive permit review, higher lease fees being in the top position.

But they are trying to reach build out status on licensing. So you gotta do what you gotta do.  Probably 0° downtilt too.

Robert

[RAvirani]

2 hours ago, S4GRU said:

I imagine it's pretty expensive to do it that way.  Engineering, structural design, construction, more extensive permit review, higher lease fees being in the top position.

This work is actually almost entirely handled by ATC/CC/similar as per Dish’s agreements with them. 

The leases are on the pricier side, though. 

2 hours ago, S4GRU said:

But they are trying to reach build out status on licensing. So you gotta do what you gotta do.  Probably 0° downtilt too.

In some rural areas, you’ll even see up to 2 degrees of uptilt.

Urban/suburban areas are getting more careful treatment. With such little spectrum, keeping the noise floor low is super important to keep the MCS index as high as possible. More 45 degree antennas would be really nice…

[dkyeager]

https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/new-dish-wireless-chief-marketing-officer-takes-big-challenges

Are Dish's issues really just a marketing issue?  If this guy succeeds, he could be the next John Legere.

[S4GRU]

15 minutes ago, dkyeager said:

https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/new-dish-wireless-chief-marketing-officer-takes-big-challenges

Are Dish's issues really just a marketing issue?  If this guy succeeds, he could be the next John Legere.

I hear that's the only issue Sprint had too.   

Robert

[mdob07]

6 hours ago, RAvirani said:

This work is actually almost entirely handled by ATC/CC/similar as per Dish’s agreements with them. 

The leases are on the pricier side, though. 

In some rural areas, you’ll even see up to 2 degrees of uptilt.

Urban/suburban areas are getting more careful treatment. With such little spectrum, keeping the noise floor low is super important to keep the MCS index as high as possible. More 45 degree antennas would be really nice…

Here I've found several Dish installs that are very low compared to the other carriers. Here's two examples, both of these suburban areas. One of these covers I-65.

[dkyeager]

Rainbow sim now becoming available in other ways than beta.  Supports VoNR:

 

[Paynefanbro]

By my count we're at 597 Dish permits in NYC. Not sure how many sites though as some permits are for site modifications like adding a sector, etc.

I've been impressed so far with Dish's progress on their buildout here. Seems like they have a good understanding of the type of density needed to provide adequate service in this city. If Washington Heights and Inwood are anything to go by then they'll likely have macro density matching or exceeding Sprint's pre-merger macro network which is pretty cool. 

[dkyeager]

A bit if confusion, but rhe rainbow Sim is expected to be on sale in Columbus OH tomorrow. If you buy the phone outright, unlocking still takes a year.

[Trip]

4 hours ago, dkyeager said:

A bit if confusion, but rhe rainbow Sim is expected to be on sale in Columbus OH tomorrow. If you buy the phone outright, unlocking still takes a year.

I'm curious to know if the A23 can be band-locked.  I'm considering buying it through them with the $100/year service, if at all possible, in order to record Dish.  I mean, once it's possible to get a Rainbow SIM.

- Trip

[dkyeager]

On 3/23/2023 at 8:48 PM, Trip said:

I'm curious to know if the A23 can be band-locked.  I'm considering buying it through them with the $100/year service, if at all possible, in order to record Dish.  I mean, once it's possible to get a Rainbow SIM.

- Trip

I mapped out the various phone choices to Dish's NR bands.  Used trade press for many of the phones, which can be unreliable.  Just starting with N71, you are down to three phones: Moto G Stylus 5G 2022, Moto Edge+ (2022), Celero 5G+.  Add in the less frequent n66 and you are down to: Moto G Stylus 5G 2022, Moto Edge+ (2022).  The Moto G Stylus 5G 2022 then walks away with the rest of the bands.  

A negative is even if you pay cash, the phone is carrier locked for a year.

[Trip]

46 minutes ago, dkyeager said:

I mapped out the various phone choices to Dish's NR bands.  Used trade press for many of the phones, which can be unreliable.  Just starting with N71, you are down to three phones: Moto G Stylus 5G 2022, Moto Edge+ (2022), Celero 5G+.  Add in the less frequent n66 and you are down to: Moto G Stylus 5G 2022, Moto Edge+ (2022).  The Moto G Stylus 5G 2022 then walks away with the rest of the bands.  

A negative is even if you pay cash, the phone is carrier locked for a year.

The A23 5G appears to support all of the Dish NR bands except n26 which they don't even own yet, and n29 which as SDL can't be logged as far as I can tell.  https://www.phonescoop.com/phones/phone.php?p=6760  I mean, n71, n66, and n70 are there, and those are the ones I'm most concerned about.

I know that's not trade press, but I've found Phone Scoop to tend to be missing bands rather than including bands that should be there.

I don't really care if it's carrier locked; if I'm buying a device specifically for Dish, then I'm probably not switching it out in the immediate future.

- Trip