Dish Network/Boost Mobile cell/5G buildout thread

[4GHoward]

Announcement..

https://about.dish.com/2023-08-08-DISH-Network-Corporation-and-EchoStar-Corporation-to-Combine

 

[RedSpark]

Dish: T-Mobile's 800 MHz still in play:

https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/dish-negotiations-ongoing-t-mobile-800-mhz

[red_dog007]

Hopefully they can secure it. IMO they need it. I think that's why Sprint struggled a lot, only having 5x5 for lowband.

$4B for 2024-2025 fiscal years is very interesting. Likely just enough to meet 75% build out deadlines. Which makes sense considering they don't have customers for such a large network.

USCC will be interesting. I feel like the big carriers might want to work together under an umbrella company with equal shares ownership. Have the umbrella company buy USCC. Then piece meal everything.

[S4GRU]

17 hours ago, red_dog007 said:

 I think that's why Sprint struggled a lot, only having 5x5 for lowband.

Or less.  They only had 3x3 here, and other border areas.

Robert

[tybo31316]

That sucks. For some reason I thought they had 10x10 and had half on LTE and half on 1x advanced. 

[dkyeager]

1 hour ago, tybo31316 said:

That sucks. For some reason I thought they had 10x10 and had half on LTE and half on 1x advanced. 

Rumor is that it was supposed to be that way, but the 9/11 commission identified first responder communication issues and Sprint's 800MHz was the solution.  "Compensation" (unofficially) was the 1900MHz G block.

Southern Link in GA also cut it back to 3x3 iirc. 

Border area with Canada goes for 100km from land border, thus it reaches into Columbus OH.  Exactly how much spectrum was negotiated in 1940 iirc.  It varies along the border depending on the relative sizes of cities.  Thus Toronto affects Rochester NY, Erie, PA etc.

Biggest issue for Sprint was providing new radio systems for first responders and getting all paperwork signed off.  That is all done at excessive cost and time, which likely reduced FCC's take on other unclean spectrum.  Dish would not have to worry about this.

[iansltx]

I wouldn't be surprised if Dish tries to trade access to 800 in areas where they've built out for access to 600 in areas where they haven't, with T-Mobile "selling" Dish the spectrum with a loan for an equal amount collateralized by both the spectrum and the aforementioned Dish 600. Complicated agreement, but would avoid Dish having money out the door, gives T-Mobile a but more 600 for the time being, and as Dish makes loan payments to T-Mobile TMo gets cash for the spectrum...and gets it back if Dish goes bust, to then try to sell to AT&T or VZW, both of whom already MFBI B26 for LTE.

If this happened, Dish could bring n26 online across their footprint basically instantly, and T-Mobile could bump rural NR capacity a bit, for areas outside n41 range. Which is more valuable than usual at the moment due to Auction 110 license releases being on hold. As an example, where my parents are they're still on 40 MHz n41 last I checked, plus 10x10 LTE and 20x20 NR in 600. Bumping to 15x15 LTE in that band would be reasonably helpful as they don't have 700 there unless Verizon sells it to them.

Now, if I were T-Mobile I wouldn't want to take this deal, but if the alternative is continuing to argue with Dish about this, maybe this is the least bad option for TMo...and it'd be amazing for Dish because every site they've turned up supports the spectrum.

Heck, they could literally run a "private" 5G network for...someone...on n26 with no contention on the airlink. Not that there's any contention on the airlink on any other band...

[RedSpark]

https://www.fiercewireless.com/5g/dish-files-extension-buy-800-mhz-spectrum-t-mobile

Dish is asking for 10 months to put the money together.

[S4GRU]

Tough time to borrow money.  And raising capital is tighter.

Robert

[Paynefanbro]

Dish isn’t the only one interested in T-Mobile’s 800 MHz spectrum

https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/dish-isnt-only-one-interested-t-mobiles-800-mhz-spectrum

 

Quote

Burns & McDonnell (B&M), a large engineering and consulting firm, is seeking permission to participate in the court proceeding where Dish is asking for more time to buy T-Mobile’s 800 MHz spectrum licenses

In a note for investors Thursday, NSR analyst Blair Levin said B&M is likely to be a stalking horse for a fragmented group of electric utilities who have spectrum needs. Electric utilities represent a large traditional client base for B&M.

NSR cites B&M’s petition saying it wants to participate in the 800 MHz proceeding as a buyer in an auction if the court denies the Dish extension request. In its filing, B&M asserts that these infrastructure operators are in an excellent position to aid in closing the digital divide with 5G and open radio access technologies.  

 

[dkyeager]

1 hour ago, Paynefanbro said:

Dish isn’t the only one interested in T-Mobile’s 800 MHz spectrum

https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/dish-isnt-only-one-interested-t-mobiles-800-mhz-spectrum

 

 

So sad.  Dish went with incremental financing as needed while T-Mobile lined up financing in advance at favorable rates. Ransomware cost Dish a billion plus time and momentum. 

Dish really still has their new 5g only network in beta phase, ie not generating any return on investment.  They should come to a group like us and SCP and Cellmapper users and cut a special deal to kick their testing into high gear, thus more quickly get it into full use, thus improving their ROI, reputation, etc.  Else Dish could be last in having a fully in-use 5G SA nationwide network.

[iansltx]

1 hour ago, dkyeager said:

So sad.  Dish went with incremental financing as needed while T-Mobile lined up financing in advance at favorable rates. Ransomware cost Dish a billion plus time and momentum. 

Dish really still has their new 5g only network in beta phase, ie not generating any return on investment.  They should come to a group like us and SCP and Cellmapper users and cut a special deal to kick their testing into high gear, thus more quickly get it into full use, thus improving their ROI, reputation, etc.  Else Dish could be last in having a fully in-use 5G SA nationwide network.

I dunno, VZW and AT&T seem in no hurry to turn on SA, though at this point they could at least do that in areas with n5 (so e.g. VZW couldn't in Austin, and AT&T couldn't in Albuquerque).

[Paynefanbro]

T-Mobile rejects Dish's play for its 800MHz spectrum

https://www.lightreading.com/5g-and-beyond/t-mobile-rejects-dishs-play-for-its-800mhz-spectrum/d/d-id/786272?

Quote

"Our position is explained in the filing: Dish's motion should be denied. They continue to tie up valuable 800MHz spectrum that they have not yet even committed to buy. Their hardship claim is a stalling tactic that is detrimental to putting this spectrum to use for consumers," T-Mobile wrote in a statement to Light Reading.

— — — — —

T-Mobile argued that the companies' original 2019 agreement covering the possible sale of 800MHz from T-Mobile to Dish specifically prohibits the companies from delaying the deal over financial hardships.

— — — — —

T-Mobile wrote that other companies are now interested in purchasing the spectrum.

"In fact, several potential auction participants have already expressed interest in purchasing the 800MHz spectrum licenses from T-Mobile," the company wrote. "Burns & McDonnell Engineering states that it has been 'planning for years' to purchase the spectrum if Dish does not buy it. Burns & McDonnell reports that it would 'leverage the nationwide spectrum for targeted community benefit enabling critical infrastructure operators like electric utilities to deploy wireless broadband networks.' The sooner the licenses are sold, the better."

 

[red_dog007]

Is B&M a shell company possibly affiliated with TMo to look "interested". If B&M plan is just to lease spectrum use and let users build their own network, I don't see that happening at all. If someone wanted to do something like what Southern Linc has, it would have been done a long time ago.

[WiWavelength]

2 hours ago, red_dog007 said:

Is B&M a shell company possibly affiliated with TMo to look "interested".

 

Campus to headquarters.

 

AJ

[chamb]

16 minutes ago, WiWavelength said:

 

Campus to headquarters.

 

AJ

I would think it is in everybody's best interest to to keep this spectrum in the hands of a major current cell phone provider.  That way, the spectrum can be used all over the country and not at a spot here and there for a power company or similar.   Several of the current providers could probably activate this spectrum fairly quickly. 

[Paynefanbro]

40 minutes ago, chamb said:

I would think it is in everybody's best interest to to keep this spectrum in the hands of a major current cell phone provider.  That way, the spectrum can be used all over the country and not at a spot here and there for a power company or similar.   Several of the current providers could probably activate this spectrum fairly quickly. 

Verizon and AT&T aren't allowed to bid on the spectrum and T-Mobile would need to deploy new antennas and radios to actually use the spectrum. The only other "nationwide" provider that could actually get it online quickly is Dish since they have already deployed antennas and radios capable of using the spectrum. I think this is just a bargaining tactic in some ongoing private battle between Dish and T-Mobile. If I had to guess, T-Mobile likely wants longterm leases or to buy some of Dish's 600MHz in a lot of markets and Dish isn't budging so T-Mobile is trying to force their hand.

— — — — —

3 hours ago, red_dog007 said:

Is B&M a shell company possibly affiliated with TMo to look "interested". If B&M plan is just to lease spectrum use and let users build their own network, I don't see that happening at all. If someone wanted to do something like what Southern Linc has, it would have been done a long time ago.

From their website it looks like Burns & McDonnell specializes in designing and building private LTE networks for utility companies in Band 8 (900MHz). According to FierceWireless, B&M seems to want the Band 26 spectrum so that they can have vertical integration and access to 14MHz of lowband nationwide. Not only will they be able to design and build the network but the utility companies would also lease the spectrum from them too.

[chamb]

3 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

T-Mobile would need to deploy new antennas and radios to actually use the spectrum. The only other "nationwide" provider that could actually get it online quickly is f Dish's 600MHz in a lot of markets and Dish isn't budging so T-Mobile is trying to force their hand.
 

I am not so positive that T_Mobile can not activate the spectrum.  I have a TM site about 10 miles away from me and I can drive right up to the fence.  It was upgraded a year ago and has the normal new antenna configuration.

I have not been near the site for a month, but it was broadcasting b26 along with the standard TM bands. I am not sure how or why this is occurring, but it is. There has been a couple more sites found with b26 too.

If I were TM, I might activate b26 LTE  while transferring many of their other bands from LTE to NR. Use band 26 in that manner for years until LTE dies.

Killing b71 in many areas to use the spectrum for n71 really has hurt TM. Users that lived or worked in fringe areas lost b71 but did not gain n71.

[Trip]

They're running B26 on a handful of protection sites, essentially.  I'm not sure that they don't need extra equipment to pull that off.  I've only confirmed four T-Mobile sites running B26 total.

- Trip

[jasonsteele]

2 hours ago, Trip said:

They're running B26 on a handful of protection sites, essentially.  I'm not sure that they don't need extra equipment to pull that off.  I've only confirmed four T-Mobile sites running B26 total.

- Trip

I'm in Phoenix, seems like all of the very few Sprint sites left that are not converted or decommissioned are broadcasting B26. There is one of them about a mile and a half from my house, once every month or two between 9pm and midnight the T-Mo site two blocks away goes down and the Sprint B26 is all that works. 

[Trip]

9 hours ago, jasonsteele said:

I'm in Phoenix, seems like all of the very few Sprint sites left that are not converted or decommissioned are broadcasting B26. There is one of them about a mile and a half from my house, once every month or two between 9pm and midnight the T-Mo site two blocks away goes down and the Sprint B26 is all that works. 

Yeah, it's still running on keep sites I've encountered in this area as well, but in places where all the Sprint sites are gone, they've started running B26 on a small handful of T-Mobile sites.

- Trip

[dkyeager]

15 hours ago, Trip said:

They're running B26 on a handful of protection sites, essentially.  I'm not sure that they don't need extra equipment to pull that off.  I've only confirmed four T-Mobile sites running B26 total.

- Trip

I was thinking the same about protection sites.  I had one at the fully upgraded T-Mobile site at the Fire Station on Reed Road in Upper Arlington that served a wide area including Columbus and Hilliard.  Then some converted T-Mobile sites finally got generators installed (almost two years after building permits).  Soon after that the band 26 disappeared.

[Paynefanbro]

To the point about Band 26 protection sites in FierceWireless' latest article they include a point that T-Mobile admits that they are using the spectrum pretty much just to keep the license active, no more no less. Also sounds like they don't even want to keep it.

Quote

The 800 MHz spectrum came to T-Mobile through the acquisition of Sprint, and T-Mobile already has decommissioned the vast majority of the 800 MHz radios in anticipation of the sale of the licenses. T-Mobile said it’s using the spectrum only enough to meet the needs for maintaining the licenses with the FCC. 

https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/t-mobile-tells-court-deny-dishs-request-extension-800-mhz-deal

[RedSpark]

https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/dish-hopes-score-big-iphone-15

https://www.boostinfinite.com

Release: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/the-iphone-15-lineup-is-available-to-pre-order-at-boost-infinite-starting-on-friday-september-15-301925380.html

iPhone Forever lives!

We'll see how this goes.

[chamb]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/dish-gets-us-help-easing-135432626.html

Anti-Trust regulators supposedly are asking judge to give DISH more time to buy the 800 spectrum from T-Mobile.