T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion V2

[EvanA]

John Legere wants RootMetrics banned and accuses them of manipulating data and accepting money from Verizon
 
 
http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/blog/techflash/2016/02/legere-wants-bellevue-research-firm-banned-after-t.html

[irev210]

There is a saying in the business world, Protect the Base. T-Mobile has done an excellent job of taking their existing network and upgrading it without spending a lot of money. Because that network base is strong, they can easily reduce expenditure and upgrade other parts of their network with that money. Sprint's now in that position with Network Vision pretty much 100% complete. NGN will help in-fill gaps, but the core network is now up to par. 

 

Consider for a moment all of T-Mobile's marketing in those non-urban areas, particularly against Verizon. They are banking on Verizon's universally slow response and general smugness. In those markets, Verizon enjoys a lion's share, and even with a small percentage porting over, the loss isn't felt, or could be offset by new customer growth. In simple numbers, if they have 10 customers and 3 port out, 1 will probably come back when they realize coverage isn't up to par. Net loss is 2 customers who are willing to put up with gaps in coverage or other limitations to save money.

 

The bigger question for T-Mobile will be what their plans to copy Sprint and densify their network. They already said small cells were not on their roadmap, so what is their plan to handle capacity? Right now the solution is to have enough spectrum used so capacity is not an issue, as long as you're in an area with sufficient cell sites. What will happen to all those B2 GMO markets? Will they eventually get upgraded to support B12 if available? Or will T-Mobile wait till the 600mhz auction is over, spectrum is cleared up, and then upgrade those sites? In that time, Sprint, Verizon, and AT&T won't be sitting idle either. We'll see potentially 3x20CA on Sprint sites, Verizon with their AWS and possible PCS refarm, same with AT&T.

 

That's the big question for 2016.

 

I looked at capex and you are definitely right, over the past 5 years (ending in 2014) it seems like TMUS has spent about 10 billion and sprint at 19 billion?  Pretty amazing, I am wondering if my numbers are wrong?

 

And doesn't it look, based on porting ratios, that T-Mobile is really capturing AT&T subscribers?  It's port ratio with Verizon is actually the lowest.

 

 

For the past five quarters, AT&T has replaced Sprint as the primary share donor in the U.S. wireless market. T-Mobile emerged as the main beneficiary of AT&T's losses by proactively marketing low-priced, flexible service plans. T-Mobile's share of postpaid phone subscribers among the top four U.S. carriers rose to 13.6% in 4Q from 12.1% in 4Q14, while AT&T's share slipped to 30.7% from 32% over this period.

 

 

Seems like TMUS will have to embrace small cells... but knowing how they roll, they wont announce anything until they are well under way deploying and have figured out a way to market the new network strategy.

[Dkoellerwx]

John Legere wants RootMetrics banned and accuses them of manipulating data and accepting money from Verizon

 

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/blog/techflash/2016/02/legere-wants-bellevue-research-firm-banned-after-t.html

 

Yet they run ads touting their RootMetric wins? Hmmm

[Terrell352]

John Legere wants RootMetrics banned and accuses them of manipulating data and accepting money from Verizon

 

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/blog/techflash/2016/02/legere-wants-bellevue-research-firm-banned-after-t.html

Legere just take the L. Thats what they get for claiming to cover 300 mill when we all know thats a lie.

[derrph]

My question is this. Wouldn't the calling part of the test fare better when it's not on VoLTE since it's going to the gsm part of the network?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shaferz]

I cant wait for them to 'turn on' VOLTE for Tmobile in 1H 2016 results, and then find that TMUS actually comes out worse or ends up exactly the same.  For Tmobiles sake, I hope their advances are exactly what they claim they are.

[richy]

 A pittance compared to the Big 2. Better than Sprint for sure but...when are they going to make some real money? They better do it quickly before 5G comes around, because that will be another very expensive endeavor.

Very true, it is small, but I would rather see them heavily reinvesting in their network and spectrum and grow. They have also been deleveraging, 2.5x now? So according to them they can run to 4x for the 600MHz auction. FCF is an important measure for tmobile (and sprint) based upon their position in the market. Verizon and att are top of the pile so their attractiveness is their ability to payout dividends, tmobile and sprint are trying to grow so you would want to see your equity increase rather than collect dividends. 

 

As for rootmetrics etc, I can understand why Legere says what he does, thats his job, shout about the wins and discredit the loses (he is still an ass though). The reality is we need to look at the different methodologies between the tests and weight them up. the tmobile experience differs massively, in some places it is crazy fast, in some places it is heavily congested and in some places there is no signal. Depending on how you create your tests you could show them as being the best or the worst. You can see trends within the same tests from year to year but comparing tests or picking one for your own use it a fools errand. Test driving a network is probably best, the rest is pretty much just fluff the marketing creeps to use. 

[Deval]

John Legere wants RootMetrics banned and accuses them of manipulating data and accepting money from Verizon

 

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/blog/techflash/2016/02/legere-wants-bellevue-research-firm-banned-after-t.html

 

Rootmetrics isn't Facebook or Twitter...

[Deval]

I looked at capex and you are definitely right, over the past 5 years (ending in 2014) it seems like TMUS has spent about 10 billion and sprint at 19 billion?  Pretty amazing, I am wondering if my numbers are wrong?

 

 

Looks like it, and some of the 10 billion was free cash from AT&T so technically it wasn't their's to spend.

 

 

And doesn't it look, based on porting ratios, that T-Mobile is really capturing AT&T subscribers?  It's port ratio with Verizon is actually the lowest.

 

 

Yes which I used in the comment about them going directly after Verizon.

 

 

Seems like TMUS will have to embrace small cells... but knowing how they roll, they wont announce anything until they are well under way deploying and have figured out a way to market the new network strategy.

 

 

You think so? This isn't Verizon we are referring to. Small cells and pico cells require significant capex, and T-Mo has walked away from it.

[Deval]

My question is this. Wouldn't the calling part of the test fare better when it's not on VoLTE since it's going to the gsm part of the network?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

T-Mobile is actively refarming their spectrum, which means removing capacity on one technology to enhance another. 

[reedacus25]

There is a saying in the business world, Protect the Base. T-Mobile has done an excellent job of taking their existing network and upgrading it without spending a lot of money. Because that network base is strong, they can easily reduce expenditure and upgrade other parts of their network with that money. Sprint's now in that position with Network Vision pretty much 100% complete. NGN will help in-fill gaps, but the core network is now up to par. 

 

Consider for a moment all of T-Mobile's marketing in those non-urban areas, particularly against Verizon. They are banking on Verizon's universally slow response and general smugness. In those markets, Verizon enjoys a lion's share, and even with a small percentage porting over, the loss isn't felt, or could be offset by new customer growth. In simple numbers, if they have 10 customers and 3 port out, 1 will probably come back when they realize coverage isn't up to par. Net loss is 2 customers who are willing to put up with gaps in coverage or other limitations to save money.

 

The bigger question for T-Mobile will be what their plans to copy Sprint and densify their network. They already said small cells were not on their roadmap, so what is their plan to handle capacity? Right now the solution is to have enough spectrum used so capacity is not an issue, as long as you're in an area with sufficient cell sites. What will happen to all those B2 GMO markets? Will they eventually get upgraded to support B12 if available? Or will T-Mobile wait till the 600mhz auction is over, spectrum is cleared up, and then upgrade those sites? In that time, Sprint, Verizon, and AT&T won't be sitting idle either. We'll see potentially 3x20CA on Sprint sites, Verizon with their AWS and possible PCS refarm, same with AT&T.

 

That's the big question for 2016.

 

I'm not sure I would call densification plans "copying Sprint." All the carriers are densifying to some extent.

 

T-Mobile has been densifying plenty of markets to date, as well as having plans for many more. Their densification strategy in my market has been mixed and varied with multiple approaches. In some areas they have built brand new sites from scratch, in most areas however they are co-locating. With most of these new sites in this market, they have been L2100/U1900 only sites, with no GSM carriers or now sunset U2100 carrier(s). Hell, they've even been adding sectors to some heavy load areas to increase capacity.

 

In some cases they have deployed small cells, or mini macros if we are being honest. In some cases they are full tri-sector builds alone. Some are single or multi-sector builds strung across multiple nodes. Its been very interesting to watch. Some are located on existing utility poles, some had poles built for the purpose.

 

I do also know that they are overlaying Band 12 in Band 2 GMO land. I don't believe these sites are being reworked for tower top radios on the existing PCS side of the radio chain, but they are getting Band 12 layers either GMO or tower top radio'd. I wouldn't count on T-Mobile, or anyone, sitting on their hands in 2016.

[Maverick]

I'm not sure I would call densification plans "copying Sprint." All the carriers are densifying to some extent.

 

T-Mobile has been densifying plenty of markets to date, as well as having plans for many more. Their densification strategy in my market has been mixed and varied with multiple approaches. In some areas they have built brand new sites from scratch, in most areas however they are co-locating. With most of these new sites in this market, they have been L2100/U1900 only sites, with no GSM carriers or now sunset U2100 carrier(s). Hell, they've even been adding sectors to some heavy load areas to increase capacity.

 

In some cases they have deployed small cells, or mini macros if we are being honest. In some cases they are full tri-sector builds alone. Some are single or multi-sector builds strung across multiple nodes. Its been very interesting to watch. Some are located on existing utility poles, some had poles built for the purpose.

 

I do also know that they are overlaying Band 12 in Band 2 GMO land. I don't believe these sites are being reworked for tower top radios on the existing PCS side of the radio chain, but they are getting Band 12 layers either GMO or tower top radio'd. I wouldn't count on T-Mobile, or anyone, sitting on their hands in 2016.

I would.

 

If not then no one is copying anything from anyone on any playing field.

 

There simply being competitive.

 

Invented vs Inovation. An idea flourishes never means that they copy, right!

[anthony.spina97]

John Legere wants RootMetrics banned and accuses them of manipulating data and accepting money from Verizon

 

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/blog/techflash/2016/02/legere-wants-bellevue-research-firm-banned-after-t.html

LOL! Banned from what? The internet?

 

-Anthony

[bigsnake49]

Sprint definitely needs to densify their network. They neglected that part for the last 10 years and now they have had to scramble. T-Mobile has been densifying slowly but surely. All carriers have to densify because of LTE's reduced reach vs CDMA. It's just that Sprint has to do it all at once.

 

VOLTE has had about 3 to 4 times the number of dropped calls. Is it because of sites being too far away from each other for LTE (weak signal), or handover problems?

[gusherb]

Sprint definitely needs to densify their network. They neglected that part for the last 10 years and now they have had to scramble. T-Mobile has been densifying slowly but surely. All carriers have to densify because of LTE's reduced reach vs CDMA. It's just that Sprint has to do it all at once.

 

VOLTE has had about 3 to 4 times the number of dropped calls. Is it because of sites being too far away from each other for LTE (weak signal), or handover problems?

In my experience it has been handoff issues. Less commonly weak signal (almost never actually). 

[bigsnake49]

There is a saying in the business world, Protect the Base. T-Mobile has done an excellent job of taking their existing network and upgrading it without spending a lot of money. Because that network base is strong, they can easily reduce expenditure and upgrade other parts of their network with that money. Sprint's now in that position with Network Vision pretty much 100% complete. NGN will help in-fill gaps, but the core network is now up to par. 

 

Consider for a moment all of T-Mobile's marketing in those non-urban areas, particularly against Verizon. They are banking on Verizon's universally slow response and general smugness. In those markets, Verizon enjoys a lion's share, and even with a small percentage porting over, the loss isn't felt, or could be offset by new customer growth. In simple numbers, if they have 10 customers and 3 port out, 1 will probably come back when they realize coverage isn't up to par. Net loss is 2 customers who are willing to put up with gaps in coverage or other limitations to save money.

 

The bigger question for T-Mobile will be what their plans to copy Sprint and densify their network. They already said small cells were not on their roadmap, so what is their plan to handle capacity? Right now the solution is to have enough spectrum used so capacity is not an issue, as long as you're in an area with sufficient cell sites. What will happen to all those B2 GMO markets? Will they eventually get upgraded to support B12 if available? Or will T-Mobile wait till the 600mhz auction is over, spectrum is cleared up, and then upgrade those sites? In that time, Sprint, Verizon, and AT&T won't be sitting idle either. We'll see potentially 3x20CA on Sprint sites, Verizon with their AWS and possible PCS refarm, same with AT&T.

 

That's the big question for 2016.

 

ATT has been busy refarming PCS. I have not seen evidence of them reforming their CLR holdings yet. That does not mean it's not happening.

[gusherb]

ATT has been busy refarming PCS. I have not seen evidence of them reforming their CLR holdings yet. That does not mean it's not happening.

They've refarmed some CLR in places where they hold A and B block and I heard mention of a place in NY that only has 5 MHz B17 getting 5 MHz B5 now too.

 

I can't wait until they refarm the last of their PCS here.

[markjcc]

John Legere wants RootMetrics banned and accuses them of manipulating data and accepting money from Verizon

 

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/blog/techflash/2016/02/legere-wants-bellevue-research-firm-banned-after-t.html

the Bellevue company’s CEO has a message for the firm that wrote it: “RootMetrics should be banned.”

 

Lets not forget this is the same guy who cursed at EFF and claimed who the FU#K pays you?

[NYC126]

Acting like a child when he doesn't get his way. As much progress Tmobile has done, they still lags the big two. Now the funny thing is, Legere is so arrogant that he is trying to go against Verizon.

 

I have a Verizon line, and I know friends and family members use them, and the reason why they pay Verizon big bucks is because something called reliability.

 

Does Oakla test reliability? I don't think so.

[Maverick]

I take it tmobile wasn't expecting a fierce competition in the airwaves auction but now that has changed.

 

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0VP2AA?feedType=RSS&feedName=technologyNews

[bigsnake49]

They've refarmed some CLR in places where they hold A and B block and I heard mention of a place in NY that only has 5 MHz B17 getting 5 MHz B5 now too.

 

I can't wait until they refarm the last of their PCS here.

 

They hold both A&B here and I have not seen my phone go to band 5 yet. Just 17 and PCS (band 2). Maybe I should have signal pro log it for a day.

[luvixuha]

I see today that C-Spire decided to sell licenses to T-Mobile. Good news for anyone living in the south.

[Overstew]

T-Mobile appears to be having nationwide calling issues. [emoji57]

[EvanA]

T-Mobile appears to be having nationwide calling issues. [emoji57]

2nd day of the outage. VoLTE is completely broken.

[gusherb]

Two of my friends, both in PA have been having issues with T-Mo.

 

I can't help but laugh because when I had ported over to them a couple weeks ago one of the things that crossed my mind was that they haven't had an outage in awhile and then it played in my head that one will happen soon. I ported back to AT&T last weekend and here we are...