T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion V2

[ericdabbs]

I heard that Laser has already reached an agreement with Fox over that issue. So when T-Mobile gets the spectrum it should be usable right away.

 

I guess it was a poor choice of sentence placement on my part.  I wasn't referring to the agreement between Fox and Laser in the Chicago market since that has a green ring which means that they have had an agreement with the TV affiliate.  I was more referring to all the other markets with interference with the red rings besides Chicago on the new 700 MHz spectrum that they will receive.

 

https://spectrum-gateway.appspot.com/t-mobile-700-mhz-spectrum.html

[Arysyn]

While I'd mostly rather T-Mobile save funds for the 600mhz auction, rather than buying up 700mhz, especially as many of them are just 5x5, I do acknowledge their need for low-band spectrum soon. Seeing as 600mhz spectrum will take quite some time to deploy, the 700mhz spectrum is important in some areas. I'm hoping though that they haven't spent so much money on this, that it'll affect their 600mhz auction purchasing power though.

 

However, I am supportive of T-Mobile getting the 700mhz spectrum in Chicago, and soon! They do need it here, for sure!

[Overstew]

While I'd mostly rather T-Mobile save funds for the 600mhz auction, rather than buying up 700mhz, especially as many of them are just 5x5, I do acknowledge their need for low-band spectrum soon. Seeing as 600mhz spectrum will take quite some time to deploy, the 700mhz spectrum is important in some areas. I'm hoping though that they haven't spent so much money on this, that it'll affect their 600mhz auction purchasing power though.

 

However, I am supportive of T-Mobile getting the 700mhz spectrum in Chicago, and soon! They do need it here, for sure!

600 won't be available until 2018/2019. Meanwhile 700 can be rolled out this year. That's the main reason they're focusing on 700 expansion.

[EvanA]

600 won't be available until 2018/2019. Meanwhile 700 can be rolled out this year. That's the main reason they're focusing on 700 expansion.

Most recent analyst estimates have pushed back 600MHz availability to 2020.

[Arysyn]

600 won't be available until 2018/2019. Meanwhile 700 can be rolled out this year. That's the main reason they're focusing on 700 expansion.

 

Most recent analyst estimates have pushed back 600MHz availability to 2020.

 

That is an advantage to 700mhz, I'll admit. Plus, as I wrote on another thread. there are areas of the T-Mobile network which really need low-band spectrum sooner than when the 600mhz spectrum can be deployed, such as in the Chicago market where I am in. There is really bad signal indoors many places I go to, including my basement and practically everywhere indoors at my aunt's house.

 

My concern though is with the limitations of 5x5, which while a decent tide over until more low-band spectrum becomes available, isn't enough long term. Plus, I think it is a bad choice if it means T-Mobile won't afford to purchase 10x10 of 600mhz spectrum when the auction occurs. The rumor I've seen mentioned quite often online regarding T-Mobile planning only to purchase 600mhz spectrum where they don't already have 700mhz, is quite disappointing. It might mean T-Mobile is only planning to have 5x5 of low-band spectrum nationwide, which really is not enough. They need at least 10x10 of it, in order to really be able to compete well enough against Verizon and AT&T. However, that isn't all there is to it.

 

From my understanding reading S4GRU and other wireless tech sites, 5x5 has a maximum of around 37mbps, which is without congestion. Considering more people are using wireless internet online indoors, the speed often is much less than that. Last year when I had Sprint, indoor signal being average on 5x5 band 26, I managed a very respectable 8mbps average nearby to a window. Yet with data consumption growing at such a rapid pace, I doubt seriously I'd still get those same numbers on low-band T-Mobile at 5x5, if it were available around here. Sprint likely is to be less affected by this, as they have much greater spectrum holdings than T-Mobile where their low-band spectrum probably is less congested than T-Mobile's low-band. Now, if T-Mobile were to make a deal with Dish Network to obtain more mid-band spectrum, I'd change my opinion of this a bit, knowing there is more to take the traffic away from low-band spectrum, other than those areas deeper inside buildings and such. I do manage to get AWS spectrum inside my home everywhere, except for my basement.

[Arysyn]

I heard that Laser has already reached an agreement with Fox over that issue. So when T-Mobile gets the spectrum it should be usable right away.

 

I guess it was a poor choice of sentence placement on my part.  I wasn't referring to the agreement between Fox and Laser in the Chicago market since that has a green ring which means that they have had an agreement with the TV affiliate.  I was more referring to all the other markets with interference with the red rings besides Chicago on the new 700 MHz spectrum that they will receive.

 

https://spectrum-gateway.appspot.com/t-mobile-700-mhz-spectrum.html

 

I'll make this a short response, as I went over a bit more in post length on my previous post here than I wanted to. I've been trying to shorten my posts here. I apologize.

 

I hope T-Mobile manages to get this 700mhz spectrum in Chicago, at a reasonable price though, of course. Being a market so heavily populated with large, deep indoor buildings, it is necessary. Especially considering the general lack of available spectrum T-Mobile has around here.

 

I have a question about this I may have asked long ago, but as it is, I don't remember for sure. If T-Mobile were to move everything off of GSM in the Chicago market, what would be the available spectrum here for LTE/VoLTE?

[luvixuha]

I have a question about this I may have asked long ago, but as it is, I don't remember for sure. If T-Mobile were to move everything off of GSM in the Chicago market, what would be the available spectrum here for LTE/VoLTE?

They already have 15+15 AWS LTE active (all of their AWS), and they have 15+15 of PCS holdings... I suppose they could do 15+15 PCS LTE if they shut down everything... but a 10+10 LTE channel would be more likely with 5+5 HSPA. 700 would be LTE, of course.

[jroepcke51]

They already have 15+15 AWS LTE active (all of their AWS), and they have 15+15 of PCS holdings... I suppose they could do 15+15 PCS LTE if they shut down everything... but a 10+10 LTE channel would be more likely with 5+5 HSPA. 700 would be LTE, of course.

Have they already turned off GSM?  That surprises me if so.

[Deval]

They have so little of 800 it can't handle much traffic. Once they have added all the macro, mini macro and small cells 1900/2500 should hopefully eliminate the need for 800. Unless someone wants to sell them more of 800, idk who that would be. Maybe Verizon trades 800 for some 2500? After they acquire 600?

 

The 800mhz deployment handles a ton of traffic, just not at the peak speeds that people expect for no reason. Easier to infill with B41 small cells to offset that load.

[EvanA]

Have they already turned off GSM? That surprises me if so.

No, they have GSM M2M commitments. GSM can eventually be squeezed into LTE guard bands, but that probably won't happen for a few years.

[gusherb]

No, they have GSM M2M commitments. GSM can eventually be squeezed into LTE guard bands, but that probably won't happen for a few years.

They really should get to doing this sooner than later. Nobody cares about 2G anymore and M2M can work fine on guard bands, AT&T has been doing it that way for several years now. Even 3G can suffer to the benefit of LTE, most users have LTE phones anyway. The ones without can either deal or upgrade (they probably wouldn't notice anyway given the age of their phone and light usage habits).

 

The way it is now, T-Mobile has reached its maximum capacity and can't handle any more new subs until this is done.

[JimBob]

T-Mobile's 700 MHz buildout in 2016 revealed: Over $1B spent in Utah, Southeast and elsewhere

 

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/t-mobiles-700-mhz-buildout-2016-revealed-over-1b-spent-utah-southeast-and-e/2016-02-26

[derrph]

T-Mobile's 700 MHz buildout in 2016 revealed: Over $1B spent in Utah, Southeast and elsewhere

 

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/t-mobiles-700-mhz-buildout-2016-revealed-over-1b-spent-utah-southeast-and-e/2016-02-26

Because I'm with T-Mobile now this makes me excited. But I'm sure now that the map they tout will actually be legit now. Either way good for them.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Arysyn]

They already have 15+15 AWS LTE active (all of their AWS), and they have 15+15 of PCS holdings... I suppose they could do 15+15 PCS LTE if they shut down everything... but a 10+10 LTE channel would be more likely with 5+5 HSPA. 700 would be LTE, of course.

This helps to know, especially for my posts here regarding that spectrum. I'm definitely on the side of those who want T-Mobile to move fast off of GSM, with this in mind.

 

However, I still think T-Mobile would be better to help people move off of HSPA/non-LTE devices. Having the full 15x15 on AWS and 15x15 on PCS all LTE/VoLTE, is important. I remember now that Dish has something around 30mhz of AWS-3 around here, which would give T-Mobile another 15x15, if T-Mobile tried to obtain this spectrum. Yet, considering what they have now, is only 60mhz total around here. Sprint has over twice that amount, which makes it very difficult for T-Mobile to compete, especially once Sprint gets 3xca activated and their new towers, etc.

 

I'm thinking that unless T-Mobile gets the spectrum from Dish in whichever way they can, T-Mobile really ought to try for the full 15x15 reserve, if available/possible, so on. That is, if they still want to keep unlimited and all the data-heavy services they offer.

[luvixuha]

T-Mobile and Sprint trade PCS frequencies:

 

https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsEntry/attachments/attachmentViewRD.jsp?applType=search&fileKey=292760680&attachmentKey=19875691&attachmentInd=applAttach

 

 

"Highlights for T-Mobile PCS contiguity:

• Cleveland/Akron/Lima, OH 10+10

• Rochester, NY 20+20

• Jacksonville/Orlando/Saratosa/Daytona Beach/Gainsville, FL 20+20

• El Paso, TX 20+20

• Harrisburg/York, PA 20+20

• Spokane, WA 15+15

• Savannah/Macon, GA 20+20

Some Sprint PCS contiguity gains:

• Rochester/Buffalo, NY 20+20

• Jacksonville/Orlando, FL 20+20

• Harrisburg/York/Lancaster, PA 20+20

• Saratosa/Gainsville, FL 15+15

 

courtesy of /u/50atomic on reddit.

[Arysyn]

Looking at these trading numbers makes me a bit angry at T-Mobile, as both a customer and as an observer. They are getting so many of these 20x20 areas developed, yet Chicago is a pathetic 15x15 AWS and 10x10 PCS LTE. Plus, no low-band here either. Although, I continue to be impressed by Sprint making a very good network out of their PCS. Just a few months ago and beyond, I was griping about their PCS holdings, saying that if they are keeping it at 5x5, they might as well sell it, or do whatever to get more of it. Yet, here Sprint is making a great effort to improve on it, which I must congratulate them on.

 

I heavily endorse these spectrum swaps and am glad to see it happening a lot lately. I believe this kind of cooperation between carriers is going to help them in the long run, improving their networks and fixing the mess made by the FCC's spectrum auctions. If only a system were spectrum was evenly divided upon what works best across the board were implemented, these spectrum swaps wouldn't be necessary.

[tybo31316]

T-Mobile and Sprint trade PCS frequencies:

 

https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsEntry/attachments/attachmentViewRD.jsp?applType=search&fileKey=292760680&attachmentKey=19875691&attachmentInd=applAttach

 

"Highlights for T-Mobile PCS contiguity:

• Cleveland/Akron/Lima, OH 10+10

• Rochester, NY 20+20

• Jacksonville/Orlando/Saratosa/Daytona Beach/Gainsville, FL 20+20

• El Paso, TX 20+20

• Harrisburg/York, PA 20+20

• Spokane, WA 15+15

• Savannah/Macon, GA 20+20

Some Sprint PCS contiguity gains:

• Rochester/Buffalo, NY 20+20

• Jacksonville/Orlando, FL 20+20

• Harrisburg/York/Lancaster, PA 20+20

• Saratosa/Gainsville, FL 15+15

courtesy of /u/50atomic on reddit.

Sweet maybe Sprint can do a 20x20 band 2 carrier in the future.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[lilotimz]

The post by Tin (atomic50) is but just a passing overview and highlights of the T-mobile & Sprint spectrum swap.

 

We've stayed up til the candle whicks burned out discussing this deal and another that involves the Big Red. 

 

Ofcourse an article is being written and will be out in time after some thorough analysis of the filings but let's just  say it's yay for dozens upon dozens upon dozens of "markets" covering tens of millions of people. 

[Overstew]

 

Some Sprint PCS contiguity gains:

• Rochester/Buffalo, NY 20+20

• Jacksonville/Orlando, FL 20+20

• Harrisburg/York/Lancaster, PA 20+20

• Saratosa/Gainsville, FL 15+15

 

courtesy of /u/50atomic on reddit.

With this, Sprint can roll out 15x15 on B25 in some markets.  Not bad.

[ericdabbs]

The post by Tin (atomic50) is but just a passing overview and highlights of the T-mobile & Sprint spectrum swap.

 

We've stayed up til the candle whicks burned out discussing this deal and another that involves the Big Red. 

 

Ofcourse an article is being written and will be out in time after some thorough analysis of the filings but let's just  say it's yay for dozens upon dozens upon dozens of "markets" covering tens of millions of people. 

 

Interesting.  I can't wait to read the article.

[Terrell352]

T-Mobile and Sprint trade PCS frequencies:

 

https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsEntry/attachments/attachmentViewRD.jsp?applType=search&fileKey=292760680&attachmentKey=19875691&attachmentInd=applAttach

 

"Highlights for T-Mobile PCS contiguity:

• Cleveland/Akron/Lima, OH 10+10

• Rochester, NY 20+20

• Jacksonville/Orlando/Saratosa/Daytona Beach/Gainsville, FL 20+20

• El Paso, TX 20+20

• Harrisburg/York, PA 20+20

• Spokane, WA 15+15

• Savannah/Macon, GA 20+20

Some Sprint PCS contiguity gains:

• Rochester/Buffalo, NY 20+20

• Jacksonville/Orlando, FL 20+20

• Harrisburg/York/Lancaster, PA 20+20

• Saratosa/Gainsville, FL 15+15

courtesy of /u/50atomic on reddit.

Did Sprint gain anything in Ocala, Fl? I see they traded spectrum as well. What do we gain from this?

[Mr.Nuke]

Did Sprint gain anything in Ocala, Fl? I see they traded spectrum as well. What do we gain from this?

Read the link...

[Terrell352]

Read the link...

Im not familiar with how much PCS Sprint has here so the link just leaves me with ??? I just want to know if we can get a second carrier here or not.

 

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

[gusherb]

Looking at these trading numbers makes me a bit angry at T-Mobile, as both a customer and as an observer. They are getting so many of these 20x20 areas developed, yet Chicago is a pathetic 15x15 AWS and 10x10 PCS LTE. Plus, no low-band here either. Although, I continue to be impressed by Sprint making a very good network out of their PCS. Just a few months ago and beyond, I was griping about their PCS holdings, saying that if they are keeping it at 5x5, they might as well sell it, or do whatever to get more of it. Yet, here Sprint is making a great effort to improve on it, which I must congratulate them on.

 

I heavily endorse these spectrum swaps and am glad to see it happening a lot lately. I believe this kind of cooperation between carriers is going to help them in the long run, improving their networks and fixing the mess made by the FCC's spectrum auctions. If only a system were spectrum was evenly divided upon what works best across the board were implemented, these spectrum swaps wouldn't be necessary.

T-Mobile has done all they can here short of acquiring more spectrum and eventually refarming PCS. They already kicked HSPA off of AWS for one, and I know PCS refarming is right around the corner. In Lake County, IN they actually do have 20x20 LTE here. Reason they have it is because they swapped licenses with AT&T to make their whole AWS block contiguous.

 

I would say that they have done a great job making do with what they have. Now they just need to get PCS LTE online and get to buying that damn 700 A block already. I still believe it's a matter of when not if.

[Arysyn]

T-Mobile has done all they can here short of acquiring more spectrum and eventually refarming PCS. They already kicked HSPA off of AWS for one, and I know PCS refarming is right around the corner. In Lake County, IN they actually do have 20x20 LTE here. Reason they have it is because they swapped licenses with AT&T to make their whole AWS block contiguous.

 

I would say that they have done a great job making do with what they have. Now they just need to get PCS LTE online and get to buying that damn 700 A block already. I still believe it's a matter of when not if.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't AT&T's spectrum in Chicago like this :

10x10 PCS, 10x10, AWS-1, 10x10 AWS-3, and what I'm unsure of the exact spectrum band though something around the amount of 10x10 low-band spectrum in the Chicago area? While that is a lot of total spectrum, I seriously doubt AT&T would be willing to trade/swap any of that here, because of potential loss to their maximum speeds.

 

Verizon has 20x20 of AWS spectrum here, though I'm not sure of their PCS and low-band spectrum holdings here. I really doubt they would do a trade or swap with T-Mobile here either. So, I'm not sure really what they can do here now, other than to acquire 700mhz spectrum and 600mhz spectrum. I believe the limit of their spectrum is going to be at 15x15 here, which is weak compared to many of their smaller markets which have 20x20. It just doesn't look good to me they can't get to 20x20 here when this is the 3rd largest city in the U.S.

 

If there is a way to do so, I think it would be wise of T-Mobile to try getting an extra 5x5 for their AWS-1 spectrum by trading 5x5 of their PCS, then get rid of HSPA and 2g. Have 20x20 AWS-1 and 10x10 PCS on LTE, then while waiting for 600mhz, get the 5x5 700mhz license for low-band. With that, I'm hoping T-Mobile does not go the route rumored as filling in spaces of their coverage where they do not have 700mhz. I'd like to see them try getting as many areas on 10x10 of 600mhz minimum, other than rural at 5x5.