T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion V2

[red_dog007]

Sprint might need to do a CDMA decommission in step with VZW.  CDMA is already a rare network technology around the globe, and one that is on its way out. Once VZW drops CDMA support in their devices, it is only going to become more difficult and more expensive for Sprint to secure phones that have CDMA support. 

 

Four to six years is a long time to get LTE up to snuff vs PCS 1x/EVDO.  Currently that 1x800 is more like bonus coverage for Sprint.  They don't even really show that coverage on their coverage maps.  Just helps push out that edge of cell roaming further down the road which with the increase in 3G/LTE roaming coverage that extra 1x800 coverage is going to be more painful than it is helpful to the end user. Going into some coverage areas with personal experience it is very annoying that I hold onto a completely unusable Sprint 1x800 single in a fully roaming area miles away from native coverage (on the Sprint map) when I could be getting USCC/VZW 3G or USCC LTE on their own 1x. 

 

Plus by then IoT and M2M will be a lot more mature and a lot cheaper on the LTE front.  Going CDMA or GSM won't make any sense. 

 

I'm not against leaving a 1x sliver somewhere in PCS/SMR, preferably just PCS, but I am all for the fastest decommission possible of 3G. :-)

[tyroned3222]

How long will it take t mobile to get the congestion issue fixed?

 

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[bigsnake49]

How long will it take t mobile to get the congestion issue fixed?

 

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They need to implement small cells that will offload the macro site. How long is anybody's guess.

[tyroned3222]

They need to implement small cells that will offload the macro site. How long is anybody's guess.

Yes, i did hear that. A lot of people are saying carrier aggregation will take care most of it and small cells will be a bonus.. which should we expect first?

 

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[bigsnake49]

Yes, i did hear that. A lot of people are saying carrier aggregation will take care most of it and small cells will be a bonus.. which should we expect first?

 

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I think they have already maxed out the AWS band.They need to refarm the PCS band to LTE from WCDMA.

[tyroned3222]

I think they have already maxed out the AWS band.They need to refarm the PCS band to LTE from WCDMA.

Yes, here in my market they swapped 20×20 mhz pcs with sprint and would add this on band 2 and the aggregate with band 4 is what im getting from it

 

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[twospirits]

How long will it take t mobile to get the congestion issue fixed?

May 30, 2025

 

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

TS

[EvanA]

I think they have already maxed out the AWS band.They need to refarm the PCS band to LTE from WCDMA.

They still have AWS-3 to deploy in some markets as well.

[anthony.spina97]

I'm not against leaving a 1x sliver somewhere in PCS/SMR, preferably just PCS, but I am all for the fastest decommission possible of 3G. :-)

When it comes time for that, the 1x sliver will most likely be in SMR because with one 5x5 carrier deployed, the remaining spectrum will really only be useful for 1x versus more LTE.

 

-Anthony

[JosefTor]

Just moved from project Fi to Tmobile from originally being a sprint customer for over a decade. I'm not bashing sprint as I know it has gotten better in a lot of places, but San Bernardino and the border have really hindered the sprint experience without having B26 in SoCal. I am excited to continue listening to people's experiences in sprint here and will consider returning once B26 and small cells is launched. This is definitely an awesome community. Also, where is our market czar? I can't wait for a dedicated person for the west/southwest and I don't think one has been selected yet.

 

Project Fi was fun but definitely had it's quirks about it. Switching between carriers only occurs when you lose signal and takes about 45 seconds, missed voicemails when on Sprint on project Fi, and VoLTE not working on Tmobile band 12 which means missed and dropped calls.

 

Now that I am on tmobile, definitely love HD calling. Usually when talking to people on the phone, we would talk until the other person got frustrated that we couldn't hear each other. No more... Now I can enjoy using my phone as my business phone.

[red_dog007]

When it comes time for that, the 1x sliver will most likely be in SMR because with one 5x5 carrier deployed, the remaining spectrum will really only be useful for 1x versus more LTE.

 

-Anthony

 

Spectrum would be more useful for LTE-M for the IoT and M2M.

 

Release 13 recently came out and allows for a just so convenient 1.4MHz block as well as 200kHz.  It looks like it is designed to use spectrum that is < 1GHz. 

[anthony.spina97]

Spectrum would be more useful for LTE-M for the IoT and M2M.

 

Release 13 recently came out and allows for a just so convenient 1.4MHz block as well as 200kHz.  It looks like it is designed to use spectrum that is < 1GHz. 

I know of 1.4 MHz LTE carriers. I'm saying that the 1x carrier is more efficient for that spectrum slice than an LTE carrier.

 

-Anthony

[red_dog007]

I know of 1.4 MHz LTE carriers. I'm saying that the 1x carrier is more efficient for that spectrum slice than an LTE carrier.

 

-Anthony

Not for LTE-M if that was to be a goal for Sprint.  1.4MHz and 200kHz channel size is in Release 13.  And yeah, LTE is way more efficient than 2G/3G.  Only thing 1x800 does better in is coverage, and Sprint survived for a long time without talk on 800MHz. 

 

It really just depends where Sprint is five years from now.  With how not sprint like Sprint is, will there still even be EVDO channels five years from now?  We won't get VoLTE for another year, maybe more.  So who knows.  But if it ever came down to a single 1x carrier for backup talk on old devices, more opinion based if it will be on SMR or PCS.  But if Sprint were to take IoT and M2M seriously on LTE, then that 1x will be on PCS. 

[mozamcrew]

Not for LTE-M if that was to be a goal for Sprint.  1.4MHz and 200kHz channel size is in Release 13.  And yeah, LTE is way more efficient than 2G/3G.  Only thing 1x800 does better in is coverage, and Sprint survived for a long time without talk on 800MHz. 

 

It really just depends where Sprint is five years from now.  With how not sprint like Sprint is, will there still even be EVDO channels five years from now?  We won't get VoLTE for another year, maybe more.  So who knows.  But if it ever came down to a single 1x carrier for backup talk on old devices, more opinion based if it will be on SMR or PCS.  But if Sprint were to take IoT and M2M seriously on LTE, then that 1x will be on PCS. 

 

I can totally see Sprint doing LTE-M with the "leftover" 800Mhz spectrum once it finally shuts down CDMA completely, but there are a few reasons why Sprint will clear CDMA from PCS before 800Mhz.

 

LTE-M will require new equipment I'm sure, and Sprint will want to maximize the value of its existing equipment first, so that means PCS clears first, because the gains from clearing from PCS can be had without new radios and equipment. 

Also, when Sprint clears PCS, it will be able to do 4x4 MIMO in PCS on existing radios/antennas, which will provide additional capacity with the same amount of spectrum. 

Also, LTE gets RELATIVELY less efficient vs CDMA as you shrink down the size of the contiguous spectrum. Freeing up the last CDMA carriers in PCS will give you a whole 5x5 of PCS spectrum, and in many places they will be able to use it to widen an existing PCS LTE block. Whereas freeing up that last little CDMA career in 800Mhz doesn't buy you anything but a 1.4Mhz carrier or two.

 

Given those factors, I maintain that Sprint will likely clear CDMA from PCS before 800Mhz.

[RAvirani]

I can totally see Sprint doing LTE-M with the "leftover" 800Mhz spectrum once it finally shuts down CDMA completely, but there are a few reasons why Sprint will clear CDMA from PCS before 800Mhz.

LTE-M will require new equipment I'm sure, and Sprint will want to maximize the value of its existing equipment first, so that means PCS clears first, because the gains from clearing from PCS can be had without new radios and equipment. 

Also, when Sprint clears PCS, it will be able to do 4x4 MIMO in PCS on existing radios/antennas, which will provide additional capacity with the same amount of spectrum. 

Also, LTE gets RELATIVELY less efficient vs CDMA as you shrink down the size of the contiguous spectrum. Freeing up the last CDMA carriers in PCS will give you a whole 5x5 of PCS spectrum, and in many places they will be able to use it to widen an existing PCS LTE block. Whereas freeing up that last little CDMA career in 800Mhz doesn't buy you anything but a 1.4Mhz carrier or two.

 

Given those factors, I maintain that Sprint will likely clear CDMA from PCS before 800Mhz.

I see sprint doing a full pcs to LTE refarm soon but leaving the 1x800 carrier for a while

[Houston_Texas]

T-Mobile thread?

 

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[WiWavelength]

T-Mobile thread?

 

Uh, yeah.  A thread of nearly 3000 posts will have some tangents.  Be happy that S4GRU even offers a T-Mobile thread, though we have had to shut it down and reboot it a few times because of trolling.

 

AJ

[Arysyn]

Uh, yeah.  A thread of nearly 3000 posts will have some tangents.  Be happy that S4GRU even offers a T-Mobile thread, though we have had to shut it down and reboot it a few times because of trolling.

 

AJ

 

I'm glad S4GRU is offering this feature to discuss T-Mobile. Although, and this is meant as a polite suggestion, perhaps the thread could be renamed as the "General Wireless Carrier thread" or something similar, so that it doesn't appear to newcomers S4GRU is favoring only T-Mobile discussions, outside discussions relating to Sprint, of course.

 

I believe the idea would give some balance to have just one thread be about all of the carriers, rather than having people start various carrier threads around in the General Topics forum. I know S4GRU likes to keep things clean around here, this idea being one way of doing so.

[EvanA]

The National Association of Broadcasters (NAB) filed a report with the FCC that called T-Mobile's repacking plan "oversimplified and misleading"

 

Here's the report. It's a quick read.

 

http://www.nab.org/documents/newsRoom/pdfs/030916_Repacking_TMobile_ExParte.pdf

[Arysyn]

The National Association of Broadcasters (NAB) filed a report with the FCC that called T-Mobile's repacking plan "oversimplified and misleading"

 

Here's the report. It's a quick read.

 

http://www.nab.org/documents/newsRoom/pdfs/030916_Repacking_TMobile_ExParte.pdf

 

One of the times I side with T-Mobile. Interesting read though nonetheless.

[EvanA]

One of the times I side with T-Mobile. Interesting read though nonetheless.

T-Mobile says that the repacking can happen in under 39 months and under budget, but we know from past experiences as referenced in the NAB's slides that transitioning takes much longer than initial expectations. There should be no expectation that this reconfiguration will be any different. Even AT&T agrees that 39 months is an ambitious timeline.

[WiWavelength]

One of the times I side with T-Mobile. Interesting read though nonetheless.

 

No, it is ridiculous, just pie in the sky.  T-Mobile is being Veruca Salt...

 

 

 

AJ

[Arysyn]

People here who've read my posts know I'm generally critical of T-Mobile's frequently wild claims, including actions. However, one thing T-Mobile is good at, is getting things done either on-time or ahead of time. So, I'll give them credit for that, and I won't doubt their ability to get this done in time, as long as those working with T-Mobile on this don't delay them on their responsibilities.

 

Now, regarding other carriers getting their own arrangements done in this time, I'm a bit more skeptical on. I say this not because I think they are slow, but I believe T-Mobile is an exception due to their quick speed progressing their network. If T-Mobile wasn't so fast in that, then I'd doubt them on this, which I do understand the general skepticism of this.

[Arysyn]

No, it is ridiculous, just pie in the sky.  T-Mobile is being Veruca Salt...

 

 

 

AJ

 

I respect your disagreement here, AJ, and appreciate you being respectful of me this time, as we can disagree without personal remarks, etc.

 

I understand the skepticism of T-Mobile on this, as I mentioned in the post I made here before this one. Although, seeing Veruca is a witty example of John Legere. and he/T-Mobile surely won't look good if they don't accomplish this in the time frame they seem to think they can do.

[richy]

I respect your disagreement here, AJ, and appreciate you being respectful of me this time, as we can disagree without personal remarks, etc.

 

I understand the skepticism of T-Mobile on this, as I mentioned in the post I made here before this one. Although, seeing Veruca is a witty example of John Legere. and he/T-Mobile surely won't look good if they don't accomplish this in the time frame they seem to think they can do.

Tmobile is basing it's position from its limited experience moving a few stations for ch51. While they seem to have done it very quickly I would not bet on that being transferable to a much larger and more complex scenario. Especially as funds spent speeding up physical installs would likely come from the cash meant for broadcasters. Personally I would guess that the broadcasters want to be able to go slow so they can extract some extra money to speed up, but also there's going to be some serious demand for tower crews. When I plan a project I build in plenty of time for things to get respecced and also for things to go wrong. Tmo wants 600MHz asap and aren't willing to wait a second longer than the minimum. As much as I like tmo if I were a broadcaster I'd be holding my ground for a sane timetable rather than one devised by rainbow colored unicorns.