T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion V2

[lilotimz]

Hello everyone!

 

It is the belief of myself and of the staff that it is time to reopen a new T-mobile LTE and Network discussion thread due to the implementation of "network prioritization" that tmobile is doing to its subscribers. 

 

As Sprint has similar language in its TOS, we believe that it is worthy of being discussed here as Sprint may do something similar on a site by site basis.

 

This thread will be strictly for discussing T-mobiles LTE network and technologies and not about personalities, their followers, and etc etc which may be better suited for S4GRUs sister site for T-mobile T4GRU. 

 

As a result this thread will be heavily moderated to stay on topic but I view the S4GRU member base very favorably and trust that we won't have much problems here.

 

 

[lilotimz]

Topic uno! 

 

T-mobile now apparently "prioritizing" network connections from here https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/342wr7/tmobile_is_now_throttling_unlimited_data/?sort=new

[EvanA]

And here's their ToS language

 

To provide a good service experience for the majority of our customers, and minimize capacity issues and degradation in network performance, we may manage network traffic through prioritization. This means that customers who use more data than what is used by 97% of what all customers use in a given month, based on recent historical averages, might in some cases have their data usage prioritized below the data of other customers during times and in places of network contention. (Customers who use data in violation of their Rate Plan terms or T-Mobile's Terms and Conditions may be excluded from this calculation.)

[joshnys8913]

here we go lol

[belusnecropolis]

Curious to see what and how the technology operates. Good or bad it may still be cool to learn about.

 

If you have a great experience still and it blunts the speed testers, well I guess something about just dessert applies. If it blows and is applied (apparently) bluntly it is gonna suck.

 

Also, I am excited for the gentle wordsmithetry associated with this discussion. The last one was a bit grinder out there.

[cortney]

What do you call the problem on T-Mobile where you get like 0.01 to 0.10 megabits down/up and occasionally give or take 1 megabit? All with a good signal, outdoors (for this example), good ping, but not throttled/over your limit? DSL backhaul  ?

 

But really, I saw it a million times when I tried them. The towers were not under load (if under any load at all because no one in my area uses T-Mobile). Only a couple areas had "functional" HSPA+ (even though practically all their coverage was marked as LTE, 95% of it wasn't). 3 pm or 3 am; wouldn't matter. 

 

Ironically the one area I'd get good HSPA+ speeds from had like two outages over the 2 months I used T-Mobile for 1-2 days at a time. 

Edited April 28, 2015 by cortney

[jroepcke51]

Topic uno!

 

T-mobile now apparently "prioritizing" network connections from here https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/342wr7/tmobile_is_now_throttling_unlimited_data/?sort=new

I don't know why but I am not surprised about this.

[lilotimz]

I don't know why but I am not surprised about this.

 

I personally think it's because of the massive subscriber adds they're having quarter after quarter.

 

I've noticed in a few rootmetrics reports that t-mobile speeds have decreased. It's not unusable by any means but they've decreased overall so it may be cause for concern from the tmobile engineering department who may be raising alarms early and then tmobile preemptively attacking the issue head on via applying the TOS to the top 3% of data users. 

[Paynefanbro]

That sucks. Despite Sprint having something similar in their terms and conditions I haven't seen any real reports of it going on. Well I guess we just learned who caved in first in the Unlimited War.

[caspar347]

That sucks. Despite Sprint having something similar in their terms and conditions I haven't seen any real reports of it going on. Well I guess we just learned who caved in first in the Unlimited War.

Yeah I was going to ask here, has anyone actually proved or even suspected Sprint enacting any of the top 5% or 1mbps video throttling stuff everyone was freaking out about back when it was discovered?

 

I wonder if this may change Sprint's plans in regards to this issue.

Lots of unhappy people in that Reddit thread.

[sbolen]

I personally think it's because of the massive subscriber adds they're having quarter after quarter.

That makes sense to me... T-Mobile was going to have a scaling problem at some point due to over-saturation. And while giving a data pass to speed tests & streaming music is so rad, it still puts a strain on the network, regardless of whether it comes out of a data stash or not.

[milan03]

What do you call the problem on T-Mobile where you get like 0.01 to 0.10 megabits down/up and occasionally give or take 1 megabit? All with a good signal, outdoors (for this example), good ping, but not throttled/over your limit? DSL backhaul  ?

 

But really, I saw it a million times when I tried them. The towers were not under load (if under any load at all because no one in my area uses T-Mobile). Only a couple areas had "functional" HSPA+ (even though practically all their coverage was marked as LTE, 95% of it wasn't). 3 pm or 3 am; wouldn't matter. 

 

Ironically the one area I'd get good HSPA+ speeds from had like two outages over the 2 months I used T-Mobile for 1-2 days at a time. 

 

I'd love to know which area of NYC was this, and how many months/years ago did you experience this? I'll be willing to test it out myself.

 

That behavior is nothing like what I've been seeing in NYC as all sites have 40Mbps max rate set on LTE sectors, and that's at the very minimum. Most of them are at 80Mbps.

 

It doesn't make very much sense, especially since you're saying that the latency stayed low.

[derrph]

If this holds to be true, will the average consumer see their speeds decrease not unless they are on they 3 and 5gb plans?

[mrjeff]

I personally think it's because of the massive subscriber adds they're having quarter after quarter.

 

I've noticed in a few rootmetrics reports that t-mobile speeds have decreased. It's not unusable by any means but they've decreased overall so it may be cause for concern from the tmobile engineering department who may be raising alarms early and then tmobile preemptively attacking the issue head on via applying the TOS to the top 3% of data users. 

 

 

I don't have an issue with throttling but I'm not like the approach being taken.  I feel carrier's need to be more transparent.  They're throttling the top 3% of user's but they don't define or provide you with what usage places you in that tier, and why start at 3%, why not 2%, or even 1%?  

 

They throttled the user down .02MBPS.  Wouldn't throttling the connection to 1-5Mbps be enough to manage their network while allowing the user continued use of their phone?

[cortney]

I'd love to know which area of NYC was this, and how many months/years ago did you experience this? I'll be willing to test it out myself.

 

That behavior is nothing like what I've been seeing in NYC as all sites have 40Mbps max rate set on LTE sectors, and that's at the very minimum. Most of them are at 80Mbps.

 

It doesn't make very much sense, especially since you're saying that the latency stayed low.

People constantly misconstrue that metro doesn't mean just the city, but the entire area as a large.

 

I apologize for the confusion. No, I don't live in NYC; I'm in the suburbs. 

[lou99/maximus1987]

I wonder how much more data the top 3% use compared to other 97.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[maxsilver]

If this holds to be true, will the average consumer see their speeds decrease not unless they are on they 3 and 5gb plans?

 

Metered plans (1gb/3gb/5gb) do not appear to be effected in any way, at this time.

 

In fact, if anything, metered plans may get slightly faster in areas of congestion. (Since unlimited users are being slowed down, that would theoretically free more bandwidth for metered users).

[shaferz]

Well this sure doesn't sound like a very 'uncarrier' type of thing to do.  

[JeffDTD]

Has Tmo discussed their average per user data consumption lately?    That would be interesting to know, given how they've grown and invited data hogs.  (Remembering Legere's porn comment a year or two ago).    Would like to know what kind of consumption the top 3% are doing. 

[DanielB]

Has Tmo discussed their average per user data consumption lately?    That would be interesting to know, given how they've grown and invited data hogs.  (Remembering Legere's porn comment a year or two ago).    Would like to know what kind of consumption the top 3% are doing. 

 

I'd have to imagine the top 3% are using obscene amounts of data. I used to routinely use 25GB+ when I was with T-Mobile and I know many others who also did. Of course, that's nothing compared to the 70GB+ that others are claiming in the Reddit thread. I think when T-Mobile brought back their truly unlimited data offering four years ago, they started receiving all of the Sprint abusers who use their phones' data connections as home Internet plans. It's unfortunate. Even now, I typically use between 6GB and 20GB on Sprint each month, but with no issues. Glad I came back to Sprint from T-Mobile - the experience is far better from a service standpoint now in Richmond, VA.

[S4GRU]

Legere has learned a lesson that Sprint did a few years ago. It is better to have your extreme unlimited data hogs churn. Tmo is making it painful for them, that's why they are making the speed extremely low.

 

They want them to go back to Sprint. Because carriers lose money on the Unlimited abusers who use their wireless service as their personal ISP. Even Legere doesn't want them.

 

Sprint was happy to lose them, and is praying they don't get them back. Because these customers cause pain and consternation to the customers they do want. I wouldn't be surprised if Sprint just follows Tmo here and does the same thing to prevent the abusers from coming back.

 

We predicted this very thing happening. Some vocal abusers said the fact that Tmo allows unlimited without hindrance was evidence that abusers didn't impact the networks and should be allowed to continue to use data at any unreasonable amount as they deem fit. Well, if that was true then, then this is indeed evidence of what abusers do to a network if allowed to. Shut down everyone else's ability to enjoy a robust network and possibly really high consumption occasionally.

 

Well, the Tmo buffet is being shut down. And this is probably not the time to celebrate Sprint's more open unlimited tolerances. Even though they may have more breathing room because of B41, they do impact B25/B26 terribly and causing early capex burn for more B41 capacity before even finish rolling out is terribly impactful to everything. Sprint will also likely join suit in some regard.

 

Using Moto X² on Tapatalk

[jroepcke51]

I personally think it's because of the massive subscriber adds they're having quarter after quarter.

 

I've noticed in a few rootmetrics reports that t-mobile speeds have decreased. It's not unusable by any means but they've decreased overall so it may be cause for concern from the tmobile engineering department who may be raising alarms early and then tmobile preemptively attacking the issue head on via applying the TOS to the top 3% of data users. 

Very good argument. I wonder once this practice gets more publicity how it will effect the Tmo appearance.

 

I understand they don't have more spectrum to move to but perhaps this move was a little preemptive. 

[bmoses]

so what does everyone consider the threshold for being an "abusive" data user on an unlimited plan to be?

 

i myself use around 20 to 30 gig per month and consider that not to be abusive. I would consider anything 60 gig or more per month to be abusive. most of my data usage comes from streaming videos, and i stream a lot. getting to 60+ would take a lot of streaming and/or you are using it in place of home internet.

 

i did see a few comments in that reddit thread where people on tmobile mentioned having to switch back to their home wifi because of throttling..... that i don't get, if you have home internet/wifi already why would you not be using it???

[Steve Dean]

so what does everyone consider the threshold for being an "abusive" data user on an unlimited plan to be?

 

i myself use around 20 to 30 gig per month and consider that not to be abusive. I would consider anything 60 gig or more per month to be abusive. most of my data usage comes from streaming videos, and i stream a lot. getting to 60+ would take a lot of streaming and/or you are using it in place of home internet.

 

i did see a few comments in that reddit thread where people on tmobile mentioned having to switch back to their home wifi because of throttling..... that i don't get, if you have home internet/wifi already why would you not be using it???

 

I would say that the abusive level is approaching the 50 to 100GB level monthly, but that is my opinion.  At times I have read in threads or blogs of what I will call "super abusers" where they are reaching the 1TB range monthly.

 

It is strange that if they have internet and do not use it unless their home service is limited as well.  I have seen some with Deathstar u-verse having 200GB monthly plans.

[Deval]

so what does everyone consider the threshold for being an "abusive" data user on an unlimited plan to be?

 

i myself use around 20 to 30 gig per month and consider that not to be abusive. I would consider anything 60 gig or more per month to be abusive. most of my data usage comes from streaming videos, and i stream a lot. getting to 60+ would take a lot of streaming and/or you are using it in place of home internet.

 

i did see a few comments in that reddit thread where people on tmobile mentioned having to switch back to their home wifi because of throttling..... that i don't get, if you have home internet/wifi already why would you not be using it???

 

 

I average anywhere between 5-10GB a month, depending on what I'm doing. All of my data usage is smartphone only, Youtube, Netflix, iTunes Radio, etc. 

 

As for T-Mobile customers using their LTE all the time, it's a byproduct of the marketing campaign offering the fastest network. They are using to just seeing LTE everywhere, so switching to WiFi doesn't really occur to them.