Network Vision/LTE - New York City Market

[dkyeager]

I have 3 Samsung Galaxy a10e for mapping LTE. For 5G I like the Samsung a32 5g (both factory unlocked).  In both cases try to get one with firmware from the spring of this year.  Then you can use the Samsung Band Selection app no matter what the carrier.

Been trying to get my OnePlus Nord n200 5Gs squared away with android 11 and rooted.  OnePlus bought out by Oppo thus service and strategic direction are both problems.  Just getting an e-mail back for the unlock the bootloader process is taking a while.

Once we get out of NSA, 5g will be much easier to map. Factory unlocked esim issues are plentiful on high end Samsungs.  My quest is a factory unlocked phone that works well with SCP and Cellmapper for both SA and NSA, with multiple active esims that work easily with MVNOs, functioning VoNR, great reception and transmission, full band support for AT&T and Dish. My next hopeful candidate is the s23.

[Paynefanbro]

ExteNet strikes exclusive venue deal with T-Mobile

Biggest takeaway for me is the second to last paragraph;

Quote

In the agreement with T-Mobile, ExteNet said it will rationalize T-Mobile’s small cell framework and upgrade existing infrastructure, making everything streamlined, more efficient and faster. This could mean taking out old Sprint gear or keeping it. All of this will be done without any service disruptions, according to ExteNet.

Between the Crown Castle deal and this one, T-Mobile is gonna have a massive small cell presence citywide.

[AirlineFlyer]

As if the city needed more stuff to strap/mount/bolt/hide cellular antenna on to, now MTA is getting in on the action at station entrances by hiding antennas inside the globes of stairways. Those globes aren't exactly very high up so I'm really interested to if anyone ever utilizes this idea.

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by AirlineFlyer

[wispiANt]

On 10/31/2022 at 9:56 PM, wispiANt said:

Spotted some work on the Sprint site at CCNY's Steinman Hall (275 Convent Ave) today. 

This upgrade has been long overdue - the existing T-Mobile site serving the majority of the north side of the campus (eNB 55893) was a B2/B66-only site that hadn't been touched in years. The Sprint site had not been broadcasting the keep PLMN, though B26 remained active. I haven't seen any active permits, but I'm guessing this means they're decommissioning the T-Mobile site across the street. Looking forward to better building penetration and a more resilient n41 connection. 

This site has been live for a week or two now (eNB 331501) but I'm struggling to see the purpose of converting it. It appears as though T-Mobile is keeping the B2/B66 site next-door (eNB 55893) and T-Mobile has angled the sectors of the new site such that you will rarely (if ever) connect to it while on campus. 

On 11/29/2022 at 5:35 PM, Paynefanbro said:

Between the Crown Castle deal and this one, T-Mobile is gonna have a massive small cell presence citywide.

I wonder if this applies to all the Mobilitie small cells or just the Extenet small cells Sprint has deployed. The Mobilitie small cells make up the vast majority of Sprint's small cell presence. If I were to estimate, I'd say Sprint has <100 Extenet small cells deployed in the city.

[Paynefanbro]

23 hours ago, wispiANt said:

I wonder if this applies to all the Mobilitie small cells or just the Extenet small cells Sprint has deployed. The Mobilitie small cells make up the vast majority of Sprint's small cell presence. If I were to estimate, I'd say Sprint has <100 Extenet small cells deployed in the city.

I think the verbiage is pretty open-ended so it may apply to all of the small cells however NYC is unique in that our small cell locations are reserved by specific franchisees. I don't know what the rules are about other companies making changes to a franchisees small cells.

If it applies to ExteNet and Mobilitie then that's awesome. If it only applies to ExteNet then that's ok too I guess. My nearest Sprint small cells are ExteNet and while I'm certain that one will be decommissioned because it's pretty much right under a T-Mobile macro, the others might stick around. 🤞

[Paynefanbro]

On 11/28/2022 at 2:42 PM, Paynefanbro said:

I'm thinking about buying a burner Android phone to get back into mapping again because I drive around the city a lot and never get the chance to do so. I have a Galaxy S7 Edge in a drawer with an inactive T-Mobile SIM but it doesn't register LTE at all and it doesn't have Band 71 so it's not that useful for me.

 

Got a Samsung Galaxy A13 5G. It's Dual SIM and I have a cheap Boost Mobile 2GB plan for mapping AT&T in one SIM slot and an inactive T-Mobile SIM in the other but it still connects to the network. Now I'm able to map both carriers at the same time. So glad to be back in action lol.

[1dante]

I just saw on a YouTube tech channel that T-Mobile will label N25 as UC in markets where they can deploy 30-40MHZ of contiguous spectrum. Anyone know about this? Thoughts?

[PedroDaGr8]

43 minutes ago, 1dante said:

I just saw on a YouTube tech channel that T-Mobile will label N25 as UC in markets where they can deploy 30-40MHZ of contiguous spectrum. Anyone know about this? Thoughts?

If it is 40MHz then I have less of a problem with  it. Per the online calculator that I used, that's almost a gig of theoretical bandwidth (assuming 4xMIMO and 256QAM). Once you break around 500Mbps, I think it begins to at least be not dishonest to call it UC. 

[wispiANt]

23 hours ago, 1dante said:

I just saw on a YouTube tech channel that T-Mobile will label N25 as UC in markets where they can deploy 30-40MHZ of contiguous spectrum. Anyone know about this? Thoughts?

Generally makes sense as 30MHz of PCS/AWS will have similar per-UE downlink capacity as 40MHz of n41/n77. However, per-sector capacity will be significantly lower as they're relying on existing 4x4 MIMO radios rather than dedicated mMIMO gear.

That said, I'd be surprised to see T-Mobile deploying 30+ MHz of n25 anywhere this year. And it's not really applicable to NYC, as T-Mobile doesn't have 30+MHz of contiguous PCS (25MHz+5MHz) or AWS (25MHz).

[1dante]

1 hour ago, wispiANt said:

Generally makes sense as 30MHz of PCS/AWS will have similar per-UE downlink capacity as 40MHz of n41/n77. However, per-sector capacity will be significantly lower as they're relying on existing 4x4 MIMO radios rather than dedicated mMIMO gear.

That said, I'd be surprised to see T-Mobile deploying 30+ MHz of n25 anywhere this year. And it's not really applicable to NYC, as T-Mobile doesn't have 30+MHz of contiguous PCS (25MHz+5MHz) or AWS (25MHz).

I’m curious to find out how widespread N25 is currently, and also if any has been deployed in my market here in Florida. 

[wispiANt]

11 minutes ago, 1dante said:

I’m curious to find out how widespread N25 is currently, and also if any has been deployed in my market here in Florida. 

You might be better off posting in the thread concerning your market, or the general T-Mobile/Sprint thread.

But CellMapper is showing sizeable n25 deployment in Florida.

[Paynefanbro]

I've been confirming AT&T sites on Cellmapper recently and one thing I've found is that they silently built out a pretty big mmWave network in the Bronx. Extenet and especially ZenFi are doing a ton of upgrades AT&T's existing small cells. I wasn't keeping count but I've seen dozens littered throughout the borough. A lot of the "proposed" ZenFi sites in the DoITT database that are located in the Bronx are existing small cells that have been upgraded to include mmWave and the LTE omni-cantenna on top. Check a random one and 7 out of 10 times it's already upgraded. 

AT&T has ok macro density but their small cell density is absolutely bonkers. In some neighborhoods they have one per block. They remind me of Sprint in that way. Their strategy seems to be spacing sites pretty far apart so they can turn up power and cover a lot of people broadly but the small cells do a lot of heavy lifting, adding coverage and capacity at street level. It's the complete opposite of T-Mobile who goes for maximum capacity by having a million macros but they sacrifice coverage slightly because they have to adjust downtilt and power to reduce noise/interference. T-Mobile has a lot of small cells of course but not nearly to the same level as AT&T in my observation. Take a look at the western half of the Bronx. It's like 10+ small cells for every macro.

I also appreciate how consistent AT&T is with eNB and cell numbering. It helped a lot determine exactly where the small cells are.

[Paynefanbro]

Currently holding back tears because I came across a NextWave permit in Crown Heights.

[Paynefanbro]

Dish installation at Kings Highway and Rockaway Parkway in Brooklyn.

— — — — —

We can remove Sprint eNB 9017 in Coney Island from the keep site map. Despite broadcasting the keep PLMN, a site decommission permit came through earlier this month and they're not replacing the antennas. 

Quote

DECOMMISSION OF EXISTING SPRINT TELECOM SITE. REMOVE EQUIPMENT PLATFORM, 1 GPS 6 ANTENNAS, 9 RRH FROM ROOF. REMOVE CABLES FROM BASEMENT FACADE AND ROOF. NO CHANGE IN USE, EGRESS OR OCCUPANCY. ORIGINAL APP#302260354.

— — — — —

An issue I've run into with mapping AT&T is that they have so many bands on their sites but phones seem to (mainly) passively connect to AWS and PCS only. I can see that my phone sees Band 12, Band 14, and Band 30 but they're listed as eNB unknown so they aren't getting added to sites I'm connected to. Unfortunately I can't band lock without rooting this phone and I don't feel like going through that hassle.

I've also found that my device will occasionally drop T-Mobile and get stuck on Verizon's network (I guess through some sort of roaming agreement) so I've been passively mapping all three carriers despite only paying for one which is pretty cool.

 

[AirlineFlyer]

Hey wow, a new Verizon macro site in Downtown Brooklyn! It’s sandwiched between Flatbush Ave Ext and Fleet Pl, and Myrtle Ave and Willoughby St.

It’s just two blocks south and one block west of existing sites, but will still fill in a weak spot around City Point on Flatbush and hopefully boosts coverage inside the complex. Installation still ongoing but it looks like the typical LTE/NR antenna, c-band, and mmWave/CBRS to be shrouded. Very good for me since this is basically across the street from my apartment.

[Paynefanbro]

On 11/20/2022 at 3:09 PM, wispiANt said:

I went through CellMapper yesterday and split a whole bunch of nodes in Manhattan/Brooklyn/Queens/Bronx/LI, so at least we know what we're working with.

---

Just a heads up for anyone locating AT&T nodes in SI - this may be the only borough where AT&T is using ZenFi as a vendor.

For example:

CellMapper: eNB 817675, Sector 115

DOITT Node Map: Node 22440

Streetview: 40.5878594,-74.1531829

AT&T uses a combo of ZenFi and Extenet in The Bronx, majority ZenFi though. In Brooklyn and Queens it's >90% Extenet. In Manhattan they use a combo of Crown Castle and Extenet. 

— — — — —

I've also found that some T-Mobile nodes are using the same eNB across multiple nodes. Take a look at T-Mobile eNB 47904-12 in Queens. It's two different small cells under the same eNB. Same thing with 47903-13. To represent both I've started "splitting" the eNB by putting the Band 66 eNB on one node and the Band 2 eNB on the other node.

[Paynefanbro]

Are T-Sprint eNB 839727-49 and T-Mobile eNB 58563-3/13 the same small cell? It's a Mobilitie cell and physically it looks like every other Sprint one but according to Cellmapper there should be a T-Mobile small cell in virtually the same spot and there aren't any other Crown Castle small cells around that provide the signal strength reported in that location.

Also I've come across a handful of Crown Castle reserved poles with both Verizon and T-Mobile present.

1. Verizon eNB 82815-22/24 is the same as T-Mobile eNB 127424-6/16
2. Verizon eNB 82815-12/14 is the same as T-Mobile eNB 127424-4/14
3. Verizon eNB 81621-2/22/24 is the same as T-Mobile eNB 129525-5/15

[wispiANt]

6 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

Are T-Sprint eNB 839727-49 and T-Mobile eNB 58563-3/13 the same small cell?

eNB 58653 is a macro site. Be sure to double-check the Streetview dates when you're locating oDAS nodes. The CC-NG node a block away is very likely T-Mobile, but it can't be eNB 58653 as that eNB was first mapped in Sept 2020 but Streetview shows there was no equipment on the pole as late as Oct 2021.

Similarly, Verizon eNB 81621-2/22/24 can't be the same as T-Mobile eNB 129525-5/15 as the Verizon node was first mapped in Dec 2016 but there was no equipment on the pole as late as June 2019.

[Paynefanbro]

9 hours ago, wispiANt said:

eNB 58653 is a macro site. Be sure to double-check the Streetview dates when you're locating oDAS nodes. The CC-NG node a block away is very likely T-Mobile, but it can't be eNB 58653 as that eNB was first mapped in Sept 2020 but Streetview shows there was no equipment on the pole as late as Oct 2021.

Similarly, Verizon eNB 81621-2/22/24 can't be the same as T-Mobile eNB 129525-5/15 as the Verizon node was first mapped in Dec 2016 but there was no equipment on the pole as late as June 2019.

Great catch, thanks! I’ve been holding off on mapping them because I thought I was going crazy. I only located it yesterday. 

[Paynefanbro]

There's a Sprint keep site at 40.725819975430746, -73.8590039877854. No idea what the Sprint eNB is but there's a permit for it to be converted to a T-Mobile site.

I also came across a permit for a new site at 810 Broadway in Manhattan. There used to be a T-Mobile site on a building across the street (eNB 47241) but the building was demolished in 2018 and the site was never replaced.

— — — — —

The infamously slow T-Mobile small cell at the intersection of Nostrand and Sterling Pl seems to be offline. No amount of airplane mode cycling will get me to connect to it. Ironically, with it offline performance in the area is a million times better since the macros are much better performing. According to cellmapper it has likely been offline since December 2021.

Similarly, the AT&T small cell at the intersection of Nostrand and Eastern Parkway is also offline. No idea for how long though.

[Paynefanbro]

eNB 47152 at Charlton and 6th Avenue got upgraded with those new mini-antennas like the Grimaldi's site.

eNB 43902 at the corner of 6th Ave and 17th St is one of those gigabit T-Mobile sites. Impressively this was about a block away from the site without LOS.

 

— — — — —

Edit: I spotted another Dish site last night at the intersection of West 139th St and Broadway. Like all the others, the antennas were up but no radios were connected. 

[Paynefanbro]

Fastest speeds I’ve ever received on T-Mobile. From eNB 45498 while inside of the nearby Dunkin.

[T-MoblieUser207]

Happy New Years to all!

I updated the map with the latest info everyone has given, and I also passed by a few (6256, 6290, 6300) to check if B26 is still live and it is. There are a few others I haven't passed in a while to see what is going on that I'll check in the next week or so. Sprint eNB 6879 is still offline and still has Sprint panels up, and a few others on the map I expected them to convert by now are still dragging along with the Sprint panels up.

The DAS at LGA Terminal B got the n41 setup on it late last year December, but its nothing to much to hype about. Either the routing is awful, or the system needs an upgrade, as dead days at the airport means 200-250 Mbps down, but busy days means data doesn't load, even though n41 is 100 MHz.

[Paynefanbro]

On 12/29/2022 at 10:09 AM, Paynefanbro said:

Similarly, the AT&T small cell at the intersection of Nostrand and Eastern Parkway is also offline. No idea for how long though.

Someone at AT&T is watching this thread. Looks like it's back online as of January 4th.

[AirlineFlyer]

Spotted another damaged oDAS antenna on 5th Ave and Dean St in Brooklyn. Not sure which carrier it belongs to but I emailed the extenet NOC and they replied within minutes with a ticket opened.

This is right by Barclays Center and probably happened as the scaffolding around the adjacent building came down after seemingly a decade 

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by AirlineFlyer