Network Vision/LTE - New York City Market

[wispiANt]

Going through some of these permits and found this abomination. AT&T wall-mounted a omni CRAN node in midtown.

[Paynefanbro]

eNB 43268 in Downtown Brooklyn is likely another multi-gig backhaul site. I'd be able to confirm it if my phone would connect to n41 but unfortunately I kept getting stuck on mmWave. Speeds on mmWave were 600/50 which is a bit above average for mmWave here. 

 

Also the site on top of BMCC (eNB 41276) got a backhaul upgrade. Saw 767/119 while driving past it.

[wispiANt]

Seeing this in Brooklyn, as well.

[Paynefanbro]

18 hours ago, wispiANt said:

Seeing this in Brooklyn, as well.

T-Mobile loves giving us an EOY bump to n41. Surprised they didn't just go straight for the full 50MHz carrier and shut off Band 41. Maybe it's because they know that they want to launch n25 soon and they'd rather keep the 10MHz of Band 41 around for relief on the LTE side.

— — — — —

As an aside, I got the cricket test drive that gives you 3GB and 14 days to test the network. So far so good. 5G performance in my house is better than Verizon but worse than T-Mobile. For one, I can actually connect to C-band on AT&T in my living room whereas I can only get it on Verizon if I'm by a window. Similarly, AT&T's LTE performance is better than Verizon in my house and about equal to T-Mobile. Here are some speed tests on both networks in my living room, where I get the worst performance on any network. I'll likely take a walk to the AT&T site serving my home to see what peak speeds I can get tomorrow.

— — — — —

Edit:

Slightly faster on LTE and 5G when right under the site. I'm really impressed by AT&T's LTE speeds honestly. Verizon definitely has faster peak C-band speeds though at the moment. Too bad there's no DoD antenna on any of the sites in my neighborhood for me to test.

[wispiANt]

Here's an updated NYC oDAS node map, for anyone who is interested.

[Paynefanbro]

Two more conversions!

1. Sprint eNB 73974 is now T-Mobile eNB 306883
   
    
2. Sprint eNB 79179 is now T-Mobile eNB 326110
   

 

— — — — —

 

Bonus Link5G I spotted while driving. Located here.

[dkyeager]

5 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

Bonus Link5G I spotted while driving. Located here.

Those look like shorter versions of what Sprint installed in a few cases years ago (often without notice) and then soon abandoned the project.

[T-MoblieUser207]

On 10/31/2022 at 1:50 PM, Paynefanbro said:

Nostrand Ave station on the 3 train has that switch flipped that makes your phone show 5G when you're only connected to LTE. My phone was reporting full bars on 5G but NrConnectionStats showed absolutely nothing on my phone. Still fast at 140Mbps but I'm not a fan of the false reporting. Also held signal well into the tunnels leaving the station so that was new for me.

When you take the subway again, idk if Field Test updates fast enough to check, but I would assume the device handed off to B26 as the train left the station, as its very easy to pick it up depending on how close the station is. Sadly, B26 is starting to disappear across the system now, and besides the three 6 train stations and the L tunnel, I haven't seen B12 anywhere else to replace it.

The 5G icon is starting to be a mixed bag. Some stations have it, then the next day they lose it, then they get it back again. While the icon comes and goes, the expansion of B2 to 20 MHz continues, as the G stations are getting it now.

On 11/3/2022 at 3:14 PM, Paynefanbro said:

Sprint eNB Unknown Location: 40.840684672278606, -73.873443189382

I kinda figured this site was special, as when I did a trip in the Bronx it was only showing under 311-940. No idea why it popped up under that PLMN, as the other sites around it didn't do that. I switched it to converted, as T-Mobile eNB 216905 is the new ID for it, and the NYC streetview car caught it. I'll try and visit the other sites over the next few days to see if the NYC streetview car saw any other conversions.

[Paynefanbro]

On 11/3/2022 at 3:14 PM, Paynefanbro said:

Thanks to this I was able to find a bunch of keep sites we missed. 

— — — — —

eNB known, permit submitted:

Sprint eNB 9294 Location: 40.830928401503634, -73.81780539746549

Sprint eNB 79179 Location: 40.67973691573384, -73.77804925050886

Sprint eNB 196636 Location: 40.68111913290647, -73.8339083121252

Sprint eNB 73974 Location: 40.67631783868167, -73.88721591955405

Sprint eNB 9019 Location: 40.58568338251566, -73.9445502357372

Sprint eNB 80078 Location: 40.74589946533523, -73.85602436482927

Sprint eNB 9987/9988 Location: 40.79461727593334, -73.79656358971245

Sprint eNB 9100 Location: 40.76766721423075, -73.99561632478108

— — — — —

eNBs unknown, permit submitted:

Sprint eNB Unknown Location: 40.745437727615325, -73.89051607250086

Sprint eNB Unknown Location: 40.756427706128086, -73.98882983223739

Sprint eNB Unknown Location: 40.760189936486206, -73.96885442740289

Sprint eNB Unknown Location: 40.840684672278606, -73.873443189382

Sprint eNB Unknown Location: 40.86216305440526, -73.86242468456577

Sprint eNB Unknown Location: 40.88011736054097, -73.83639761487673

Sprint eNB Unknown Location: 40.898951728182226, -73.84563781456855

— — — — —

Sprint eNB 6714 is on the keep site map but is listed as location unknown. It's located at 40.715043365864, -74.01530642396074.

— — — — —

I'll probably visit some of these to determine if they've already been upgraded sometime this weekend.

@T-MoblieUser207 We can remove the following from the keep site tracker:

1. Sprint eNB 196636 Location: 40.68111913290647, -73.8339083121252.
   1. While it is upgraded, it turns out this one was a Sprint collocation and the permit was to decommission Sprint and upgrade the site at the same time.
2. Sprint eNB 80078 Location: 40.74589946533523, -73.85602436482927
   1. This one is just a decommission.
3. Sprint eNB Unknown Location: 40.745437727615325, -73.89051607250086
   1. Also just a decommission.

Next weekend I'll check out a bunch in the Bronx.

 

[Paynefanbro]

NYC residents complain about ‘ugly’ LinkNYC 5G poles

Quote

As of now, most of Link5Gs have not yet been activated and are in various stages of activation, optimization and testing processes, according to the New York City Office of Technology and Innovation (OTI). The OTI says 90% will be deployed in underserved areas – neighborhoods in the Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island and above 96th Street in Manhattan.

It will take a while to get all the poles up. According to OTI, they’re now at the stage where major telecom carriers can request Link5G sites, based on how to best optimize 5G cellular service where it’s most needed in the city. LinkNYC then works with OTI to site the kiosks, in compliance with city rules and the franchise agreement with the city.

The structures include five independent, RF-optimized bays to house antennas and integrated radios, according to Comptek. Each of these bays can be accessed independently, and each section uses frequency specific shrouding to minimize losses. They’re capable of accommodating 5G millimeter wave, Wi-Fi, C-band and other licensed and unlicensed spectrums.

[twospirits]

I don't find those poles ugly at all. 

[Paynefanbro]

I don't mind them in the more dense part of the city however I think they stick out like sore thumbs in areas like the one pictured above where they're taller than the buildings that surround them. I'm guessing that when they're rolled out citywide they'll start to be seen as just another piece of NYC infrastructure like lightpoles.

I prefer them shrouded like this as opposed to leaving the antennas exposed like I've seen in so many other cities. Exposed antennas look sloppy in my opinion.

[BucketHead25]

If you stood on the street corner handing out $20 bills to anyone that walked by eventually someone would complain that it wasn't $50.  There is always someone with a sad face.

[wispiANt]

18 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

I don't mind them in the more dense part of the city however I think they stick out like sore thumbs in areas like the one pictured above where they're taller than the buildings that surround them. I'm guessing that when they're rolled out citywide they'll start to be seen as just another piece of NYC infrastructure like lightpoles.

I spotted a new deployment in the LES, on Clinton Ave, and it is shockingly out of place. I didn't have a chance to take a pic but I believe it replaced this streetlight. 

All the streetlights on the sidestreets in this area are in the 15 foot range. IMO, replacing them with something 2x the height is totally inappropriate. Moreover, it takes up half the sidewalk in an area with already limited sidewalk space.

[Paynefanbro]

54 minutes ago, wispiANt said:

I spotted a new deployment in the LES, on Clinton Ave, and it is shockingly out of place. I didn't have a chance to take a pic but I believe it replaced this streetlight. 

All the streetlights on the sidestreets in this area are in the 15 foot range. IMO, replacing them with something 2x the height is totally inappropriate. Moreover, it takes up half the sidewalk in an area with already limited sidewalk space.

I agree it's horrible on a side street like that. However if it were placed somewhere on Delancey I wouldn't care. The street is extremely wide, the sidewalk is extremely wide, and nearly every building dwarfs it. I don't think the people deciding where these get places are taking into consideration things like that.

It seems like they're just going to carriers and asking "where are you struggling to get a lease for a site and need coverage the most?" then plopping them down wherever they point on a map.

[wispiANt]

n41 has been bumped up to 140MHz.

[Paynefanbro]

AT&T has an LTE DAS and enterprise WiFi installed at City Point in Downtown Brooklyn. My phone automatically connected to attwifi because of the Cricket line. Pretty cool given that it's a relatively new building.

[AirlineFlyer]

1 hour ago, Paynefanbro said:

AT&T has an LTE DAS and enterprise WiFi installed at City Point in Downtown Brooklyn. My phone automatically connected to attwifi because of the Cricket line. Pretty cool given that it's a relatively new building.

That building, specifically DeKalb Market, installed its own DAS repeater system for the four carriers. It's really odd and interesting. Cel-Fi has a whole case study on the installation here: https://www.cel-fi.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/ebook_RCR12.pdf

Annoyingly, T-Mobile works great inside the Trader Joes but Verizon and AT&T are totally dead. Not sure how AT&T Passpoint Wi-Fi is managed, but it's a nice option since the building's own Wi-Fi captive portal really doesn't work.

[Paynefanbro]

2 hours ago, AirlineFlyer said:

That building, specifically DeKalb Market, installed its own DAS repeater system for the four carriers. It's really odd and interesting. Cel-Fi has a whole case study on the installation here: https://www.cel-fi.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/ebook_RCR12.pdf

Annoyingly, T-Mobile works great inside the Trader Joes but Verizon and AT&T are totally dead. Not sure how AT&T Passpoint Wi-Fi is managed, but it's a nice option since the building's own Wi-Fi captive portal really doesn't work.

I was on the 4th floor at Alamo Drafthouse. While Cricket was only showing LTE and absolutely refused to connect to 5G, T-Mobile was showing 5G UC in the status bar. Unfortunately I don't know if T-Mobile was connected to the neutral DAS on the LTE side of things and pulling 5G from the macro or if my phone just opted to connect to the macro for both.

[Paynefanbro]

1. Sprint eNB 9410 got converted to T-Mobile eNB 315016/315017 
   Location: 40.59324792710544, -73.99464499188356
2. Sprint eNB Unknown got converted to T-Mobile eNB 219605
   Location: 40.6352148980485, -74.02952503317536
3. Sprint eNB 9019 is now T-Mobile eNB 894864
   Location: 40.58570059216386, -73.9444011027088

 

Sprint eNB 75141 on the keep site map has been converted since the summer but it wasn't live. Looks like it finally went live as eNB 307405. Location: 40.629401378763696, -74.07910762994678

 

— — — — —

Also I confirmed the location of most of the oDAS in Staten Island on Cellmapper so now we have a more accurate sense of site density. 99% of them are ancient Band 66 only small cells that were first installed as HSPA small cells back in 2009/10 and upgraded to LTE in 2015. 

[wispiANt]

I went through CellMapper yesterday and split a whole bunch of nodes in Manhattan/Brooklyn/Queens/Bronx/LI, so at least we know what we're working with.

---

These Verizon nodes are such a pain to locate:

- Practically identical to a good number of T-Mobile nodes

- Only carrier who didn't opt for SC-specific eNB/sector numbering

- Only carrier who deployed lowband (B13, no B5 at least)

- Even the midband transmit distance seems to be twice that of any other carrier

If anyone has any tips/tricks for locating, feel free to share.

---

Just a heads up for anyone locating AT&T nodes in SI - this may be the only borough where AT&T is using ZenFi as a vendor.

For example:

CellMapper: eNB 817675, Sector 115

DOITT Node Map: Node 22440

Streetview: 40.5878594,-74.1531829

---

Also, found another Sprint convert in SI:

- Sprint eNB 80452 (40.606761402444135,-74.13139757485608) --> T-Mobile eNB 326459/326460

[wispiANt]

Now that I mention it, on the newest DOITT export I'm seeing AT&T and Verizon (or maybe T-Mobile?) using ZenFi all across the boroughs. Didn't really get a chance to check this out in detail before. Not seeing any new "Installed" Mobilitie permits (besides some older Sprint deployments, applied for in 2019ish).

 

[Paynefanbro]

Nearly every site I encountered in the Bronx was running N41 SA. Consistent pings in the low teens and speeds were actually great.

1. Sprint eNB 9294 got converted but isn't live yet.
   Location: 40.83091697219704, -73.8178106151994
   
    
2. Sprint eNB unknown, now T-Mobile eNB 310677
   Location:40.880070855974395, -73.83644046611454
   
    
3. Sprint eNB Unknown, now T-Mobile eNB 894775. Bonus speed test with 2CA and N41 SA.
   Location: 40.8989406640668, -73.84564472722599
   
    
4. Sprint eNB Unknown, now T-Mobile eNB 894854.
   40.86220687471859, -73.86242513896488
   

 

[Paynefanbro]

1. T-Mobile eNB 879491/879493/879494 on the keep site map is located at 40.77536940167816, -73.92011957697034.
2. Sprint eNB 5762 is now T-Mobile eNB 306271.
   1. Located at 40.582064139078206, -74.16175767702059

Weirdly both of the new Sprint conversions that have been found in Staten Island (eNB 306271 and eNB 326459) were sites I visited earlier this summer but neither of them were broadcasting the keep PLMN at the time. In fact, Sprint eNB 5762 was completely offline when I visited. I suspected both sites were keep sites based on their location relative to neighboring T-Mobile sites so I was surprised when I didn't spot 312-250 coming from them. Glad to see T-Mobile still kept them.

Also T-Mobile isn't done with non-conversion new builds in the city. T-Mobile eNB 894075 is a brand new site added this summer on Rockefeller University's campus in Manhattan. It gives me hope for neighborhoods like Red Hook and Williamsburg that desperately need sites along the waterfront.

[Paynefanbro]

Forgot to mention that I traveled all over the lower Hudson Valley last weekend while using the Verizon eSIM trial to directly both carriers' coverage on one device as opposed to using a second phone. Coverage was virtually the same in my experience with the biggest exception being the Bear Mountain region. All along the Long Mountain Parkway from Woodbury Common going east, coverage remained virtually the same. Both carriers reported similar signal strength going all the way down to 1 bar at the same times but when I arrived at the roundabout near where Long Mountain and Palisades Parkway meet up with one another, Verizon had a much stronger signal compared to T-Mobile's 1 bar.

Verizon has a series of sites installed all over Bear Mountain State Park to provide signal to visitors. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like any other carrier attempted to do the same in the 2+ years since they got built. I just took a look at Cellmapper and it seems like AT&T may have collocated on one of the sites late last year but none of the others. Because of these sites when you're driving on Bear Mountain Bridge and along Bear Mountain Bridge Road going south, Verizon has slightly stronger signal than T-Mobile.

— — — — —

I'm thinking about buying a burner Android phone to get back into mapping again because I drive around the city a lot and never get the chance to do so. I have a Galaxy S7 Edge in a drawer with an inactive T-Mobile SIM but it doesn't register LTE at all and it doesn't have Band 71 so it's not that useful for me.

Any recommendations for phones/plans to map cheaply?