Network Vision/LTE - New York City Market

[Paynefanbro]

Spent some time on Roosevelt Island this weekend and managed to map almost all of the small cells on the island. In spite of all of these small cells T-Mobile's performance is really hampered by the lack of upgrades to their macros on the island. They technically have 3 macros, two are on Coler Hospital on the north end of the island and one on the Roosevelt Island Tram Tower in the southern part of the island.

Of the 3 sites only one has been upgraded completely with n41/71, the site on the far north of the island. This site doesn't even cover Roosevelt Island. Instead its sectors provide coverage to the Astoria Houses just across the water in Queens and parts of the Upper East Side in Manhattan. The other site on Coler Hospital that actually covers the northern part of the island is ancient with a single RFS and Ericsson AIR32 per sector. The tram tower that's meant to be the primary site for the southern half of the island has an AIR21, AIR32, and one of those older Band 12 antennas per sector leaving us with only Band 2/12/66.

T-Mobile isn't ignoring the tram site though. They actually took down the Sprint antennas on it recently. No idea why they're holding out on upgrading it. Verizon on the other hand has upgraded the site to have mmWave and C-band. While standing right in front of it I was getting just under 2Gbps on mmWave and over 200Mbps on LTE. This is in comparison to the ~200Mbps I was getting on n41 from the new site on Rockefeller University Hospital broadcasting across the water. On T-Mobile's LTE network alone, I struggled to get over 50Mbps in front of the macro. AT&T also upgraded both of their sites on the island with C-band so speeds were a consistent 100-200Mbps islandwide.

I wonder what the holdup is for T-Mobile on those two sites.

Edit: I've been uploading all of my speed tests on all carriers to that site coveragemap.com to contribute data to it. Looks like someone got over 2Gbps around 45th and 6th Ave in Manhattan. Maybe eNB 45491 is a super site lol.

Another person got 1.9Gbps right by City Hall. May be a cool way for us to track down those sites with multi-gig backhaul.

[mirskyc]

17 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

Spent some time on Roosevelt Island this weekend and managed to map almost all of the small cells on the island. In spite of all of these small cells T-Mobile's performance is really hampered by the lack of upgrades to their macros on the island. They technically have 3 macros, two are on Coler Hospital on the north end of the island and one on the Roosevelt Island Tram Tower in the southern part of the island.

Of the 3 sites only one has been upgraded completely with n41/71, the site on the far north of the island. This site doesn't even cover Roosevelt Island. Instead its sectors provide coverage to the Astoria Houses just across the water in Queens and parts of the Upper East Side in Manhattan. The other site on Coler Hospital that actually covers the northern part of the island is ancient with a single RFS and Ericsson AIR32 per sector. The tram tower that's meant to be the primary site for the southern half of the island has an AIR21, AIR32, and one of those older Band 12 antennas per sector leaving us with only Band 2/12/66.

T-Mobile isn't ignoring the tram site though. They actually took down the Sprint antennas on it recently. No idea why they're holding out on upgrading it. Verizon on the other hand has upgraded the site to have mmWave and C-band. While standing right in front of it I was getting just under 2Gbps on mmWave and over 200Mbps on LTE. This is in comparison to the ~200Mbps I was getting on n41 from the new site on Rockefeller University Hospital broadcasting across the water. On T-Mobile's LTE network alone, I struggled to get over 50Mbps in front of the macro. AT&T also upgraded both of their sites on the island with C-band so speeds were a consistent 100-200Mbps islandwide.

I wonder what the holdup is for T-Mobile on those two sites.

The Tram Sprint site was one of the first locations I found with N41 when it first launched. 

 

[T-MoblieUser207]

Sprint eNB 5895 has been converted, no idea if it was live or not. I may have picked up the LTE eNB on the S8, if not the S23+ caught the n25 gNB for it. Still waiting for the data to popup on the map, and here is a tower pic of it.

 

23 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

Looks like someone got over 2Gbps around 45th and 6th Ave in Manhattan. Maybe eNB 45491 is a super site lol.

I wonder if that was the n258 mmWave site T-Mobile was testing some time ago that was found on Twitter:

Edited April 11, 2023 by T-MoblieUser207

[Paynefanbro]

21 hours ago, T-MoblieUser207 said:

Sprint eNB 5895 has been converted, no idea if it was live or not.

Passed by earlier this afternoon and it's not live yet.

— — — — —

Saw this AT&T site and laughed because check out that uptilt. I thought it might've been a broken mount at first but each sector had one antenna pointed upward like this. Check out the range on this thing!

[Paynefanbro]

At the Yankees game yesterday I got to test out all 3 carriers. It seems like not every area in the stadium has had their DAS upgraded to include 5G. For example in the Legends Suite I only saw LTE on every carrier but it performed really well; > 300Mbps on T-Mobile and over > 200Mbps on Verizon and AT&T.

At our seats it was another story.

To nobody's surprise Verizon was the best performing. I was seeing 1.2Gbps on Verizon thanks to mmWave but I kept experiencing this weird issue where my Verizon line kept dropping to no service/SOS. I had to do an airplane mode cycle to get reconnected the network multiple times.

T-Mobile speeds were a steady 30Mbps both down and up but I did manage to get one test at 240Mbps. It seems like T-Mobile struggled with deciding what to connect to. I'd watch my signal strength go up and down as it bounced between SA 5G, NSA 5G, and LTE. Sometimes the 5GUC icon would appear and then randomly disappear. In spite of this there wasn't a single test I did that was below 30Mbps. Good enough in my opinion.

AT&T was the slowest of the bunch. I couldn't get over 5Mbps on AT&T at my seat despite AT&T upgrading their DAS to include all available LTE bands, even Band 14. It was a consistent 5Mbps though and pings were also pretty low. I never saw it drop to the kbps range in my testing. Maybe they just got oversaturated.

[AirlineFlyer]

Finally came across a new oDAS node that I can confirm is actually online and is even a different color. This one was put up by Verizon by the Brooklyn Costco and appears to have mmWave online. I don't think I was within range of any macro to get that mmWave signal from.

[xmx1024]

On 3/11/2023 at 5:19 PM, Paynefanbro said:

Switched to the promotional $25 "Unlimited" Boost Mobile plan so that I can test AT&T's performance more frequently.

I also switched to a $5 Tello plan to map T-Mobile's network because my inactive T-Mobile SIM has been kind of finicky. It was a business SIM so it had access to Verizon's network via roaming and I found that it would frequently push me over to VZW and get stuck on their network in areas with weaker signal, the same areas where my iPhone would show 1-2 bars. I also realized that recently the T-Mobile SIM would get stuck on 2G and not move me over to LTE until I restarted the device. Super annoying.

— — — — —

As much as I love AT&T's excessive use of small cells citywide, I've also noticed that it's no substitute for macro density (at least on the midband 5G side of things). Take a look at these speed tests in Downton Brooklyn, taken on Bridge St btwn Fulton and Willoughby. This isn't really a fair comparison considering there is a T-Mobile site pointing straight down the street but it's more to illustrate the point about AT&T.

Three things about AT&T here:

1. No C-band. No amount of toggling airplane mode could connect me to C-band. This is in spite of the two nearest macros having C-band antennas installed. 
2. My phone connected to the macro for n5 but connected to a small cell (eNB 117207-49) for the the LTE side of things with a -70dBm signal, so pretty strong on the LTE side.
3. AT&T's ping is great so I'm assuming capacity isn't an issue thanks to all of those small cells but they still struggle on the throughput side in comparison to VZW and TMUS who both have greater macro density.

FYI boost infinite sim seems to perform abysmally compared to postpaid / first party

[Paynefanbro]

1 hour ago, AirlineFlyer said:

Finally came across a new oDAS node that I can confirm is actually online and is even a different color. This one was put up by Verizon by the Brooklyn Costco and appears to have mmWave online. I don't think I was within range of any macro to get that mmWave signal from.

I was just back there last week. I noticed that Verizon installed a bunch of oDAS nodes along 2nd Ave in Industry City. I think that they're easily the best performing carrier in that area. Sprint also has a bunch back there that I'm hoping T-Mobile will one day convert. 

 

1 hour ago, xmx1024 said:

FYI boost infinite sim seems to perform abysmally compared to postpaid / first party

Yup, QCI9. But as I understand it most AT&T plans are only QCI 8 and even their most expensive non-business unlimited plan is QCI 7. Performance hasn't been abysmal in my experience and has more or less matched performance when I've tested AT&T in the past on their branded (non-unlimited) prepaid services.

From what I've seen, my experience on Boost Mobile also lines up with the general experience in NYC according to coveragemap.com. Some sites perform really well here, but most of them are generally much slower than anything VZW or TMUS has to offer. In the case of the test you quoted, that's just a poor area for AT&T as I've come across small cells that are as much as 4x faster than that one. AT&T just needs better macro density in much of the city.

[Paynefanbro]

1. Sprint eNB Unknown -> T-Mobile eNB 875923
   1. Location: 40.667111078004595, -73.84858333943421
2. Sprint eNB Unknown -> T-Mobile eNB 894870
   1. Location: 40.68362651903586, -73.8854428368001
3. Sprint eNB 5848 -> T-Mobile eNB 347837
   1. Location: 40.65273285505563, -73.97331867356841
   2. This site is also a gigabit site.
      

— — — — —

T-Mobile eNB 894636 got a backhaul upgrade and is now a gigabit site too.

— — — — —

Passed by T-Mobile eNB 43727 which is a super old flagpole site and saw that it's covered in scaffolding so it's either about to be upgraded or decommed and moved to the Sprint site just below.

The site is Band 66 only and probably one of the oldest T-Mobile sites in the city so I'm glad something is finally being done about it.

— — — — —

Also mapped a bunch of small cells in Vinegar Hill that hadn't been mapped before. I was a bit surprised to see my phone reporting a strong signal throughout the neighborhood despite the only macro being the one next to the Manhattan Bridge. Now I know why. Given the cell numbering scheme it looks like I might've missed one, eNB 134692-6/16.

— — — — —

A couple of oddities I've noticed with AT&T:

1. There are a couple of AT&T tri-band small cells in Staten Island that they don't have deployed anywhere else. Most AT&T small cells in Staten Island were installed by ZenFi but these were installed by Crown Castle some time in the early 2010's. What makes them stand out is that they're using the AT&T Outdoor DAS and Wide Area DAS cell numbering scheme instead of the typical one they user throughout the city.
    
2. I've also seen a few small cells using a new numbering scheme that I think may be borrowed from another region but AT&T has used on a couple of sites here from some reason. For example, eNB 117069 in Crown Heights has cell numbers 67 and 81.

[T-MoblieUser207]

I passed by eNB 48052 with the hopes of seeing T-Mobile CBRS on the S23+ since the panel is still up, and I locked B48, B2 and B66 to force it to show up, but it didn't. Eventually I'll take a trip to the Bronx to check how the towers with the CBRS panel are doing.

eNB 894967 also got the backhaul upgrade, and its gig+ now (picture below). eNB 307360 is also gig+ as well, but it's different in that n41 will CA each other, but it doesn't do n25+n41. I think eNB 216061 is also gig+, but I wasn't sure which tower I was connected to since NR PCIs are very different from LTE PCIs now. Total of 32 sites confirmed with gig+ backhaul.

 

On 4/28/2023 at 4:25 PM, Paynefanbro said:

• Sprint eNB 5848 -> T-Mobile eNB 347837
  Location: 40.65273285505563, -73.97331867356841

Woah. This was another 311-940 site, and I'm very surprised they kept it with how close eNB 127826 is. But then again, this is the new T-Mobile.

[wispiANt]

On 5/8/2023 at 8:29 PM, T-MoblieUser207 said:

Eventually I'll take a trip to the Bronx to check how the towers with the CBRS panel are doing.

If you're planning on heading up to the Bronx, here's a site you should probably check out. C-Band, CBRS, and n41.

[Paynefanbro]

Terminal 5 DAS at JFK is doing well. SA n41 is pretty much the norm there. Virtually no difference in download speeds between SA and NSA 5G however on the upload side I was seeing faster speeds on NSA. Slightly lower pings too on NSA.

Here are some tests:

 

[T-MoblieUser207]

Sprint eNB 6879 is no longer being kept, the Sprint panels that were there are gone, and no trace of new panels going up.

Edited May 15, 2023 by T-MoblieUser207

[Paynefanbro]

Converted and live:

1. Sprint eNB 5895 -> T-Mobile eNB 894894
   1. Location: 40.66466311967771, -73.93960182432919
2. Sprint eNB 6178/7096 -> T-Mobile eNB 435611
   1. Location: 40.78707921692206, -73.92779049281599
   2. This was the Sprint site on the water tower on Randalls Island. Would've been converted just in time for GovBall but that got moved to Flushing Meadows.
3. Sprint eNB Unknown -> T-Mobile eNB 326555
   1. Location: 40.723502188026536, -73.8389076735834
   2. This is also a gig+ site:
      

— — — — —

Converted but not live:

1. Sprint eNB Unknown located at 40.73044202152905, -73.85233764709504
   1. Got a pic when it was rainy a couple of days ago so it's super blurry but the silhouette should give it away:
      

— — — — —

Gig+ sites:

1. T-Mobile eNB 50319 in Fort Greene is a gig+ site. Pulled over 900Mbps while driving by. Probably could've gotten over 1Gbps had I stopped in front of it.
2. T-Mobile eNB 41153 on top of Chelsea Piers is a gig+ site.
   
   

 

[wispiANt]

Not sure if this is common knowledge, but I've noticed a good number of the new Verizon oDAS nodes have labels designating site ID info. Here are two instances - one from a node in Windsor Terrace and another from a node in Clinton Hill.


 

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Additionally, I've spotted the Dish PLMN broadcasting in parts of Brooklyn and Manhattan. I'm unable to manually connect, but hopefully this means the network is going live soon.

---

And one more gig+ site: eNB 128069 in Bedstuy.

[AirlineFlyer]

Finally, an actually foolproof to identify the carrier of an NYC oDAS unit!

[Paynefanbro]

10 hours ago, wispiANt said:

Additionally, I've spotted the Dish PLMN broadcasting in parts of Brooklyn and Manhattan. I'm unable to manually connect, but hopefully this means the network is going live soon.

Nice, this just prompted me to check to see if it's live in my area and whaddya know, I'm seeing the Dish PLMN inside my house. I might need to get another dual SIM phone to map Dish and Verizon on next!

[Paynefanbro]

1. Sprint eNB 9493/5784 -> T-Mobile eNB 216213
   1. Located at: 40.61611028489374, -74.01141959254353
2. Sprint eNB 6786 is converted but not live
   1. Located at: 40.647096399275, -73.97984672978991
      

 

[T-MoblieUser207]

On 5/20/2023 at 4:45 PM, Paynefanbro said:

1. Sprint eNB 6178/7096 -> T-Mobile eNB 435611

This site, along with T-Mobile eNB 307360, don't have B41 live, but do have n41 live. Seems like the latest T-Mobile convert sites don't broadcast B41 at all.

[Paynefanbro]

On 5/20/2023 at 4:45 PM, Paynefanbro said:

Converted but not live:

1. Sprint eNB Unknown located at 40.73044202152905, -73.85233764709504
   1. Got a pic when it was rainy a couple of days ago so it's super blurry but the silhouette should give it away:

This site is live now. It's eNB 343958.

— — — — —

Verizon is gone from the roof of the building at the intersection of Flatbush and Fulton. Noticed it a couple of weeks ago but forgot to post about it. That's probably why they put up that new site across the street from LIU. T-Mobile already decommed the Clearwire equipment from that site but refuses to upgrade it to n41. Only AT&T has upgraded that site to midband. Something's up.

— — — — —

1. T-Mobile eNB 51834 is a gig+ site. Got 1.3Gbps in standalone mode.
   
   
    
2. T-Mobile eNB 880578 got a backhaul upgrade. Got just over a gig in standalone mode on that site.
   
   

[Paynefanbro]

Converted and live:

1. Sprint eNB 74321 -> T-Mobile eNB 347217
   1. Location: 40.711555634592045, -73.90205282897874
2. Sprint eNB 253648 -> T-Mobile eNB 344966
   1. Location: 40.739909422602764, -74.00570475706513
3. Sprint eNB Unknown -> T-Mobile eNB 310766
   1. Location: 40.760188344416285, -73.96886037075352
4. Sprint eNB Unknown -> T-Mobile eNB 894887
   1. 40.80706983542683, -73.91457816360656
5. Sprint eNB 6829 -> T-Mobile eNB 347832
   1. Location: 40.5971347474561, -73.95019458988855

— — — — —

Converted but not live:

1. Sprint eNB 5888
   1. Location: 40.62612064693741, -73.93488926518539

[Paynefanbro]

I mapped AT&T and T-Mobile's networks in most of Bergen Beach and Mill Basin recently on Cellmapper. It looks like some of it is finally starting to appear on the map in Bergen Beach. The two standout things to me are: 

1. T-Mobile's older oDAS nodes have really great coverage. For example when I first saw eNB 49289-3 I thought it was one of those weird situations where a single cell covers ~3 small cells but it's just a small cell with no obstructions so it can be connected to across the that little channel that separates Mill Basin from Bergen Beach with a decent signal. Same deal with 49288-5, it has a range of a couple blocks which is rare on newer T-Mobile nodes.
    
2. AT&T has better signal strength than T-Mobile in much of Bergen Beach despite both carriers being collocated on the same rooftop. I know T-Mobile's azimuths are different and whatnot but it seems like AT&T has fewer qualms about increasing power or adjusting downtilt for maximum coverage. Does AT&T having 20MHz of lowband spectrum between Band 12/14 have something to do with that? I ask because with that much lowband on LTE you likely have fewer fears about the network experience at edge of cell compared to T-Mobile who only has 5x5 Band 12 and Band 71 which can become congested a lot quicker.

— — — — —

Here are screenshots of my mapping. More of the area should load in over the next couple of days as I mapped almost all of the Mill Basin peninsula area.

— — — — —

Edit:

Funny, after posting this one layer of AT&T fully updated to reflect all of the mapping I did.

[T-MoblieUser207]

Took a trip over to Brooklyn Bridge Park to see if Sprint eNB 6706 got converted, but I didn't pick it up, nor any new T-Mobile eNBs. However, Sprint eNB 5865 is still live waiting to be converted.

eNB 53594 has been added to the gig+ map, clocked 1.2 Gbps on it yesterday.

[Paynefanbro]

Fully converted sites:

1. Sprint eNB 74020 -> T-Mobile eNB 326552
   • Location: 40.715917084573746, -73.77254385489373
2. Sprint eNB 79281 -> T-Mobile eNB 344423
   • Location: 40.73372014872347, -74.00341617480531

— — — — —

Broadcasting keep PLMN:

1. Sprint eNB 253671
   1. Located at 40.57772361187426, -73.84865075580691
2. Sprint eNB 5944
   1. Located at: 40.64903333540103, -73.79131072060973

— — — — —

eNB 41646 and eNB 41638 are both gig+ sites.

[Paynefanbro]

New Gig+ Sites:

eNB 877322 and eNB 41323 are gig+ sites. While I only got 843 on 41323, it initially shot over 1Gbps before settling down. 

— — — — —

DoD sighting in Brooklyn. This is AT&T eNB 110691 in Red Hook.

— — — — —

Filled out Bergen Beach, Old Mill Basin, and Canarsie a bit on Cellmapper. The AT&T layers have started coming through but the T-Mobile layers are a bit slower to show up.