Official Tmobile-Sprint merger discussion thread

[Tengen31]

Yeah I heard that before but with all the 5g talk and nothing about integration for LTE customers it doesn’t sound good.

There will be no loss of service. None 5G devices will still have their LTE access using 2/25,4/66,12,71 likely just not B41

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[Cardsfan96]

12 minutes ago, Tengen31 said:

There will be no loss of service. None 5G devices will still have their LTE access using 2/25,4/66,12,71 likely just not B41

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Yeah I get there won’t be a loss of service but for people on LTE devices capable of both networks but stuck in a market or area that just doesn’t perform well on sprint LTE will still have a long wait for better days.

[S4GRU]

1 hour ago, Cardsfan96 said:

Maybe this is a dumb question but as more I hear it seems they are only working on 5g. Is there never going to be a network integration of the LTE networks? Are sprint customer going to be stuck on sprint LTE until they upgrade to a 5g device? Or will there eventually be a full integration or plan to allow sprint customers to access the full T-Mobile network on the LTE side?

As much as I would like it, they are not planning a combined Sprint/Tmo LTE network.  Sprint's LTE network will run on the side.  Every time someone upgrades their device, they will be on the Tmo network.  Sprint LTE customers will dwindle over the next few years.  They will use new Tmo 5G as a means to try to draw people over. 

They will raid Sprint spectrum to drive network growth over at the new Tmo.  The Sprint LTE experience will be in a steady state of decline, until they finally make the last people in each market move over as they pull the plug.  In the interim, they will allow Sprint customers to natively roam on the Tmo LTE network when they run out of Sprint LTE network. 

In reality, they want Sprint customers to come over, but not too quickly.  So they can keep ahead of the curve as they upgrade their network for nearly double the customers.  It's a balancing act.  If they don't do it just right, they can lose millions of customers quickly to the Duopoly.  But they don't want to keep the Sprint customers too happy over on their old network.  They need them to want to move when the time is right.  If they make it all smiles and happiness, then they will be happy to be forced to move, and also want to churn.

Robert

[Paynefanbro]

48 minutes ago, S4GRU said:

As much as I would like it, they are not planning a combined Sprint/Tmo LTE network.  Sprint's LTE network will run on the side.  Every time someone upgrades their device, they will be on the Tmo network.  Sprint LTE customers will dwindle over the next few years.  They will use new Tmo 5G as a means to try to draw people over. 

They will raid Sprint spectrum to drive network growth over at the new Tmo.  The Sprint LTE experience will be in a steady state of decline, until they finally make the last people in each market move over as they pull the plug.  In the interim, they will allow Sprint customers to natively roam on the Tmo LTE network when they run out of Sprint LTE network. 

In reality, they want Sprint customers to come over, but not too quickly.  So they can keep ahead of the curve as they upgrade their network for nearly double the customers.  It's a balancing act.  If they don't do it just right, they can lose millions of customers quickly to the Duopoly.  But they don't want to keep the Sprint customers too happy over on their old network.  They need them to want to move when the time is right.  If they make it all smiles and happiness, then they will be happy to be forced to move, and also want to churn.

Robert

100% agreed. It's exactly what they did with MetroPCS. They offered incentives to upgrade your device and within 15 months over 70% of Metro's userbase had upgraded to devices that used T-Mobile's network. As more and more users switched to T-Mobile's network, T-Mobile repurposed the spectrum which made the experience for Metro users with legacy devices worse and T-Mobile would tell them they need to be on their network if they wanted better service, enticing them to switch to new devices.

[ingenium]

The issue with forcing people onto the new network when they upgrade their device is that it can cause churn if the network isn't ready yet. For example, in area where I typically am, Sprint's network is much denser than T-mobile, and I'd be giving up coverage until T-mobile rebuilds Sprint sites. It would force some of my family members to change providers since they'd have no service at home.

I suspect/hope there will be a time (a year? More?) where you can still stay on Sprint as the default network if you want. People with iPhones or Pixels can use either network as is, so the devices are already ready. They might be able to just push a SIM update OTA eventually, but I've heard that providers have sometimes bricked a bunch of SIMs in the past doing that.

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[Cardsfan96]

30 minutes ago, S4GRU said:

As much as I would like it, they are not planning a combined Sprint/Tmo LTE network.  Sprint's LTE network will run on the side.  Every time someone upgrades their device, they will be on the Tmo network.  Sprint LTE customers will dwindle over the next few years.  They will use new Tmo 5G as a means to try to draw people over. 

They will raid Sprint spectrum to drive network growth over at the new Tmo.  The Sprint LTE experience will be in a steady state of decline, until they finally make the last people in each market move over as they pull the plug.  In the interim, they will allow Sprint customers to natively roam on the Tmo LTE network when they run out of Sprint LTE network. 

In reality, they want Sprint customers to come over, but not too quickly.  So they can keep ahead of the curve as they upgrade their network for nearly double the customers.  It's a balancing act.  If they don't do it just right, they can lose millions of customers quickly to the Duopoly.  But they don't want to keep the Sprint customers too happy over on their old network.  They need them to want to move when the time is right.  If they make it all smiles and happiness, then they will be happy to be forced to move, and also want to churn.

Robert

I understand the need to move people over slowly but forcing them to upgrade their phones when many have just upgraded to a brand new iPhone or other device that is only LTE capable is not the right way in my opinion. If sprint customers can not get access to T-Mobile LTE network in decent amount of time or without buying a phone they don’t want or to spend $1000 that’s not right. Many sprint customers are on a lacking LTE network that is barely usable for a lot of people and now has no upgrades anymore. I can already see customers complaining and their not going to say “hey I’ll buy a $1000 phone to get better service” they are going to go back to the duopoly.

[Paynefanbro]

It certainly can cause churn but that was the same bet that T-Mobile made with MetroPCS in 2012 and it paid off. 

[dkyeager]

7 hours ago, ingenium said:

The issue with forcing people onto the new network when they upgrade their device is that it can cause churn if the network isn't ready yet. For example, in area where I typically am, Sprint's network is much denser than T-mobile, and I'd be giving up coverage until T-mobile rebuilds Sprint sites. It would force some of my family members to change providers since they'd have no service at home.

I suspect/hope there will be a time (a year? More?) where you can still stay on Sprint as the default network if you want. People with iPhones or Pixels can use either network as is, so the devices are already ready. They might be able to just push a SIM update OTA eventually, but I've heard that providers have sometimes bricked a bunch of SIMs in the past doing that.
 

 

7 hours ago, Cardsfan96 said:

I understand the need to move people over slowly but forcing them to upgrade their phones when many have just upgraded to a brand new iPhone or other device that is only LTE capable is not the right way in my opinion. If sprint customers can not get access to T-Mobile LTE network in decent amount of time or without buying a phone they don’t want or to spend $1000 that’s not right. Many sprint customers are on a lacking LTE network that is barely usable for a lot of people and now has no upgrades anymore. I can already see customers complaining and their not going to say “hey I’ll buy a $1000 phone to get better service” they are going to go back to the duopoly.

 

7 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

It certainly can cause churn but that was the same bet that T-Mobile made with MetroPCS in 2012 and it paid off. 

From a pragmatic S4gru.com point of view, how will the actual forcing of people over in unconverted markets work with new phones?  Will it just be with regular retail sales forced over?  Perhaps buying a factory unlocked phone and activating it yourself would be a way around this, if you can get Sprint sims. (Also gets around dreaded Sprint leases and keeps your options open in terms of other carriers.)

Once a market is converted you can make a reasonable judgement on new T-Mobile service. Sprint service today is better than existing T-Mobile service for me.  They key items missing are which sites will be converted, new sites, small cell plans, backhaul, new patterns for sites, and plan details.

[danlodish345]

1 hour ago, dkyeager said:

 

 

From a pragmatic S4gru.com point of view, how will the actual forcing of people over in unconverted markets work with new phones?  Will it just be with regular retail sales forced over?  Perhaps buying a factory unlocked phone and activating it yourself would be a way around this, if you can get Sprint sims. (Also gets around dreaded Sprint leases and keeps your options open in terms of other carriers.)

Once a market is converted you can make a reasonable judgement on new T-Mobile service. Sprint service today is better than existing T-Mobile service for me.  They key items missing are which sites will be converted, new sites, small cell plans, backhaul, new patterns for sites, and plan details.

 N T-Mobile is pretty tight lipped on network details 

[Grabber5.0]

I don't know if they're messing with the tower I normally connect to or what, but my V50 is preferring TMO this morning. I've been on band 66 and band 2, whereas normally I'm on Sprint band 41, or if I'm in the basement band 25 or 26. Current camped on B2 according to SCP.

[S4GRU]

Please do not confuse me explaining what Tmo is doing with my personal preference for what they should do.  I'm not advocating the New Tmo's moves.  I'm just trying to explain where there is confusion.  But there is much more that we don't know at this point.

Robert

[dkyeager]

1 hour ago, S4GRU said:

Please do not confuse me explaining what Tmo is doing with my personal preference for what they should do.  I'm not advocating the New Tmo's moves.  I'm just trying to explain where there is confusion.  But there is much more that we don't know at this point.

Robert

Agree. And we have enough interest to piece together what they are doing if we share our observations even more with each other.

[dro1984]

T-Mobile to offer deals to owners of older Sprint 5G phones as it merges networks

The 5G phone situation T-Mobile made public from Sprint is correct.   That is due to an internal modem that cannot be "flashed" over to work with T-Mobile's frequencies. Only those early 5G devices.  Not all Sprint devices.    Some of you are going to cause un-needed concern and frustration with current Sprint users who have LTE devices that  WILL be migrated over without issue to T-Mobile and their full set of frequencies.  

On the phones that will have issue, T-Mobile is offering a new device with similar discounts that amount to a near "$0" difference in cost to the consumer.    

[dkyeager]

3 minutes ago, dro1984 said:

The 5G phone situation T-Mobile made public from Sprint is correct.   That is due to an internal modem that cannot be "flashed" over to work with T-Mobile's frequencies. Only those early 5G devices.  Not all Sprint devices.    Some of you are going to cause un-needed concern and frustration with current Sprint users who have LTE devices that  WILL be migrated over without issue to T-Mobile and their full set of frequencies.  

We can only judge them on their actions so far. Without additional details from T-Mobile, it is only natural to see these actions as a trend.  If T- Mobile is concerned, they can give us more data or share more of their current plans.

[dro1984]

WAY too early to judge.     They have 1 market done and are working 2 others.       They have already said they will help those persons affected.   Let's give them a month or 2 to find out.     The Earnings broadcast will be on May 6th.    I'm sure they will have a ton of news available then.  

[derrph]

I would like to assume that they’d start notifying those individuals starting the 28th, the same day that the Sprint s20 line gets access to T-Mobiles low band 5G.


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[chaddy0122]

I would think there will be a big push to get customers to switch over to N Tmobile in September when new 5G (presumably) iPhones come out

[PhillipJames89]

I wish they can waive the taxes and fees on our bills now lol

[RedSpark]

Dish named the first vendor for its 5G build: https://www.fiercewireless.com/5g/dish-network-names-mavenir-as-first-vendor-for-its-5g-network-build

Think they'll be able to do it?

[Grabber5.0]

I'm not particularly interested in moving down to an S20 from the V50. I wish they'd include the S20+ as an option. :/

[RedSpark]

Just now, Grabber5.0 said:

I'm not particularly interested in moving down to an S20 from the V50. I wish they'd include the S20+ as an option. 😕

Is there an option to do a "differential upgrade" to the S20+ and cover the incremental cost over the base S20?

[Grabber5.0]

Is there an option to do a "differential upgrade" to the S20+ and cover the incremental cost over the base S20?

I don't know any more about it yet. And that is just from what has been reported, as they have not contacted me about it yet. But that would be ideal, or even another device option.

 

[dro1984]

55 minutes ago, RedSpark said:

Dish named the first vendor for its 5G build: https://www.fiercewireless.com/5g/dish-network-names-mavenir-as-first-vendor-for-its-5g-network-build

Think they'll be able to do it?

They named an Indian company to do the work.    No wonder Charlie E was in India for weeks!     Wouldn't Ericsson or a well known company be a better choice?    Not thrilled personally with this news.     Hopefully they hire US workers to do the work at competitive wages.     (doughtful)       Everyone in the media was wondering why he said he can build a 5G network for 10 billion. (See link below)     Maybe this is how.     Very shady.

Ergen defends lower projected costs of Dish 5G network architecture

[Terrell352]

Holy batman!! TMOBILE tower in NY with Mmwave, N71, N41 massive mimo.

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[bigsnake49]

16 minutes ago, dro1984 said:

They named an Indian company to do the work.    No wonder Charlie E was in India for weeks!     Wouldn't Ericsson or a well known company be a better choice?    Not thrilled personally with this news.     Hopefully they hire US workers to do the work at competitive wages.     (doughtful)       Everyone in the media was wondering why he said he can build a 5G network for 10 billion.     Maybe this is how.     Very shady.

Ergen defends lower projected costs of Dish 5G network architecture

They will virtualize everything from core to RAN. The only thing on sights will be RRHs/Antennas. Everything else will be in Cloud based and Edge data centers. I will actually be surprised if it costs them $10. I am thinking 7-8B$. They don't need to provide coverage that rivals Verizon. If they chose to cover 70-80% of Americans, they will do fine. That's where the meat is. It is not in covering rural highways. If they can avoid pursuing the cheap mfers that will burn through 20GBs/month with stupid offers they will do fine. Go after Cricket's and Tracfone customer and you will do fine.