LTE Plus / Enhanced LTE (was "Sprint Spark" - Official Name for the Tri-Band Network)

[stlman314]

The only one I've ever seen refer to EDGE as 2G is T-Mobile, ironically. So I say it in jest to mock Tmo. Their official coverage maps refer to EDGE coverage as 2G.

I thought AT&T when the OG iPhone was released they were edge as well.

[S4GRU]

Sprint also referred to 1x as 2G, until the last two years or so.

 

Older parts of the site still refer to it as "not 3G", such as  http://shop2.sprint.com/en/stores/popups/compare_data_speeds_popup.shtml 

 

For business customers, they claim 1x as 2G as well : http://m2m.sprint.com/m2m-solutions/2g-network and http://newsroom.sprint.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=2570

So....

 

I'm addressing that T-Mobile is indeed 2G by their own description. I don't care what you call 1x. I don't believe I've ever corrected you.

[S4GRU]

I thought AT&T when the OG iPhone was released they were edge as well.

AT&T still has some EDGE only sites. I'm not talking about that. I was explaining that T-mo calls EDGE a 2G technology.

[stlman314]

AT&T still has some EDGE only sites. I'm not talking about that. I was explaining that T-mo calls EDGE a 2G technology.

Ok. Sorry about that

[WiWavelength]

1x is technically 3G and nothing we have is technically 4G (Yea, I know they changed it). I swear people that keep saying 1x is 3G need to find a hobby. Sane people only call EVDO (in the CDMA world) 3G.

Yup. And if folks are letting 1x pretend to be 3G on the standards definition alone, than all EDGE coverage has to count too, since EDGE is also technically 3G (in that it also formally complies 'IMT2000/3G' standard).

 

Folks can't have it both ways. It's not honest to claim that 1x is "3G", but then also claim that EDGE is "2G".

 

Either your following actual performance (in which neither 1x nor EDGE count as '3G' service), or your following the letter of the spec (in which both 1x and EDGE are technically "3G technologies" by spec). 

 

Guys, I am growing weary of this argument.  I have the right answer; if you have a problem with that, too bad.

 

Many of you seem too young or too old to remember 2002.  Or you simply were not Sprint subs at that time.  Yes?  No?  If not, then you lack the appropriate perspective.

 

CDMA2000 is a "3G" standard.  That includes 1xRTT, 3xRTT, EV-DO, EV-DV, etc.

 

EDGE should not be a "3G" standard.  It is a modulation bolt on to GSM, which is decidedly a "2G" standard.

 

Sprint PCS Vision in 2002 was a "3G" launch -- color screens, camera phones, etc.  It was definitely a generational upgrade from the "2G" "all digital" cdmaOne paradigm that preceded it.

 

So, you can argue that CDMA1X does not seem like "3G" in 2014.  But to say so in general, you are just playing revisionist historian.

 

AJ

[maxsilver]

EDGE should not be a "3G" standard. It is a modulation bolt on to GSM, which is decidedly a "2G" standard.

 

I have the right answer; if you have a problem with that, too bad.

 

For others who may miss the nuance, "should not" doesn't mean "is not".

 

In 1999, the ITU formally approved 5 radio interfaces as "3G", and both 1x and EDGE were on the list. That comes straight from the International Telecom Union and the European Telecom Standards Institute. 1x and EDGE are both technically 3G technologies, as defined by the spec.

 

And I'm not arguing with that in any way, no one can -- it's a factual event that happened, with a pretty clear definition attached :

 

http://www.etsi.org/index.php/technologies-clusters/technologies/mobile/edge

http://www.4gamericas.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=page&sectionid=361

http://www.itu.int/osg/spu/ni/3G/casestudies/GSM-FINAL.doc (search for the words "EDGE is recognized under the IMT 2000 umbrella")

http://www.tra.gov.eg/english/Articles_ArticlesDetails.asp?PID=316&ID=34

 

 

Either your following the ITU's definition (in which 1x and EDGE are both factually certified as 3G, because they both passed the same performance metrics). 

 

Or your following a "performance/service" definition (in which 1x can't ever, even theoretically, hit the 600k-1.4mb speeds Sprint claims is average on the 3G network provides, so by Sprint's own service-level definition, 3G does not include 1x). This is what I'm (and what I'm assuming mhammett) are referring to.

 

I don't particularly care which definition a person picks. But I don't see how anyone can honestly claim "1x counts 3G because the ITU said so" and then say "EDGE shouldn't count as 3G, because it's built on GSM, and that's 2G". They both passed an identical performance benchmark.

[WiWavelength]

For others who may miss the nuance, "should not" doesn't mean "is not".

 

In 1999, the ITU formally approved 5 radio interfaces as "3G", and both 1x and EDGE were on the list. That comes straight from the International Telecom Union and the European Telecom Standards Institute. 1x and EDGE are both technically 3G technologies, as defined by the spec.

"Should" is based on my reasoned assessments, which I take over those of governing bodies -- especially when they are influenced by the likes of AT&T nee Cingular operator politics and 3GPP Eurotrash.

 

Sprint PCS Vision was launched as "3G" -- with ceremony befitting that generational leap.  The same was not true of EDGE.  Enough said.  I am done with this argument.

 

AJ

[dedub]

Both edge and 1x are in the 'sucks' category for data as far as I am concerned, regardless of 2g or 3g technology.

 

Heck I would include cdma in that 'sucks' category too, because 9 times out of 10, it is just as unusable (vz or sprint flavors).

[jreuschl]

Question..  I assume a B41 site goes through some kind of optimization at some point?  There's a few new B41 sites in my market and the signal doesn't seem to be that strong, and I'm not sure if it is my phone (the just released Note 4) or the signal from the tower itself.  Even driving nearby the site, it doesn't stay at full bars long.

[lilotimz]

Question..  I assume a B41 site goes through some kind of optimization at some point?  There's a few new B41 sites in my market and the signal doesn't seem to be that strong, and I'm not sure if it is my phone (the just released Note 4) or the signal from the tower itself.  Even driving nearby the site, it doesn't stay at full bars long.

 

There are always some optimization to be done on all new equipment. It's just the nature of the beast. 

[centermedic]

Just to clarify, frequency order is 2500/1900/800?

[crazy_vag]

Just to clarify, frequency order is 2500/1900/800?

It depends on load level and congestion of each frequency. The system decides and tells the phone which one to use. If only b25 and B 26 are deployed, it will likely be b26 as most older LTE phones can only be on 25. Where b 41 is deployed, b 41 will likely be the least congested one.

 

There are variations of this where there are multiple carriers on 1900 and 2600, so think of those as parallel networks.

[lilotimz]

Just to clarify, frequency order is 2500/1900/800?

In simple terms the network will attempt to place you on b41 - -> b25 - - > b26.

 

But as b25 is over capacity in most markets the order is usually b41 - - > b26 - - > b25.

 

Sprint is starting to deploy a second pcs Lte carrier in additional markets that have the extra spectrum available so it'll probably default back to 41-25-26 once b25 is stabilized.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[BlueAngel]

Question.. I assume a B41 site goes through some kind of optimization at some point? There's a few new B41 sites in my market and the signal doesn't seem to be that strong, and I'm not sure if it is my phone (the just released Note 4) or the signal from the tower itself. Even driving nearby the site, it doesn't stay at full bars long.

Yep, I had no LTE inside my house until about a month ago when the signal from B41 suddenly went full force on a Sunday afternoon. Mind you the speeds are not great (average is around 6Mbps) but I'm sure they will get better once new backhaul is installed as I am pretty sure they're still using the same backhaul that was there when WiMax ran that tower.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5

[awsum gam3r]

Well well well..

But there is no clearwire base station....

Ft. Wayne, Indiana

[Rocket87]

Well well well..But there is no clearwire base station....Ft. Wayne, Indiana

Indy is lighting up too. I looked at glance today and about 50% had been spark updated.

[bigmachine]

There's a few new B41 sites in my market and the signal doesn't seem to be that strong, and I'm not sure if it is my phone (the just released Note 4) or the signal from the tower itself.  Even driving nearby the site, it doesn't stay at full bars long.

 

The B41 site closest to me seems to have a signal reach equivalent to a sprinkler.  I'm not complaining though -- it provides ample speed to me.  It's capacity discipline at its finest.

 

It's a Clear site (and former Nextel site) with microwave backhaul, so my theory is that it's tuned so it doesn't get too saturated.

[Cubbiefan82]

The B41 site closest to me seems to have a signal reach equivalent to a sprinkler.  I'm not complaining though -- it provides ample speed to me.  It's capacity discipline at its finest.

 

It's a Clear site (and former Nextel site) with microwave backhaul, so my theory is that it's tuned so it doesn't get too saturated.

If it is band 41 clear, it won't go that far. If it is sprint 8t8r band 41, that distance will be just a little less then band 25 after it is tuned and powered up to full strength

[awsum gam3r]

Indy is lighting up too. I looked at glance today and about 50% had been spark updated.

But from what I can tell,ONLY 1 tower is live.

[orangeblue]

Since Sprint is currently deploying 8T8R sites, will this mean the end for the current WiMax/LTE dual sites? I noticed that some Clearwire sites are offline in the Bay Area(LTE only) or have these sites been given a Sprint own network ID?

[COZisBack]

Since Sprint is currently deploying 8T8R sites, will this mean the end for the current WiMax/LTE dual sites? I noticed that some Clearwire sites are offline in the Bay Area(LTE only) or have these sites been given a Sprint own network ID?

The WiMax side of the dual radios is being shut down. They're already relabeled with Sprint Cascade IDs. They'll be upgraded at an unknown future date to 8T8R and some of those will add the rest of Network Vision at an unknown future date.

[dkyeager]

Since Sprint is currently deploying 8T8R sites, will this mean the end for the current WiMax/LTE dual sites? I noticed that some Clearwire sites are offline in the Bay Area(LTE only) or have these sites been given a Sprint own network ID?

Sites being offline for days is part of the testing process. We even had 5 sites that were off for over a month. Other sites were later tested nearby.

[nmartine3]

Anything going on in the Detroit market, around where I live? Do I have to have the paid versions on LTE Discovery and SignalCheck Pro to be able to detect other LTE bands?

[exadyne]

Anything going on in the Detroit market, around where I live? Do I have to have the paid versions on LTE Discovery and SignalCheck Pro to be able to detect other LTE bands?

Samsung doesn't properly report the LTE band to the Android API so SignalCheck Pro can't tell when you have Band 41 LTE. One way to check is if the 3rd digit in the GCI is odd (since the digit is in Hex B - 11, D - 13, and F - 15 count as odd).

[maxsilver]

Anything going on in the Detroit market, around where I live? Do I have to have the paid versions on LTE Discovery and SignalCheck Pro to be able to detect other LTE bands?

 

I don't know about Livonia specifically, but most of Metro Detroit has B41 deployments in progress in various parts of the city. Flint, Saginaw, and Bay City are all "officially" launched.

 

From a purely opinionated standpoint, the Metro East areas seem to be getting the bulk of the effort over the rest of the state (which seems reasonably fair, since they had to be skipped on 800mhz LTE for IBEZ reasons.) 

 

Robert has a map you can buy via site donation, to get ballpark timelines on specific sites in Eastern Michigan, if you want more specific details. (Or at least, I think he'd still let you buy it -- http://s4gru.com/index.php?/topic/2262-network-visionlte-east-michigan-market-detroitflintann-arbortri-cities/?p=374741 might be a time limited thing, I'm not certain)