Network Vision/LTE - Chicago Market

[mhammett]

Similar to last month's report from Rockford, this report also shows that the only thing at this point keeping Sprint from claiming the top spot is data speed. We have a ton of data hogs around Chicago enjoying their unlimited data plans, so Sprint is not going to be able to claim the top spot here until they start thinking ahead and immediately begin deploying multiple B41 carriers, and consider expanding the new PCS-B block carrier to 10x10, now that most (all?) of the older devices have been recertified for the wider bandwidth options.

 

I'm sure AJ or another spectrum guru will step in if I'm wrong, but I believe Sprint has access to ~180 MHz of EBS/BRS across most if not the entire Chicago market. That should be enough to deploy at least 3 B41 carriers without thinning WiMax.

 

There is currently no shortage of B41 equipment (including carrier cards) from Samsung, unlike what we're seeing from the other OEM's. Therefore, every site that is 8T8R-accepted going forward should have the full set of 6 cards installed and configured, with 3 of them turned on. This will allow Sprint to immediately leapfrog Verizon's "XLTE" on the downlink (and perhaps the uplink) as soon as this spring's wave of SD 808/810 devices are released.

 

The modem accompanying those chips is Cat 7-ready, even if they're only being advertised as Cat 6. That means at least 2 uplink carriers can be aggregated, and maybe all three, so long as Sprint's network is properly configured for that.

 

A second 60 MHz chain could then presumably be quickly flipped on after WiMax is shut down. I just hope that the new backhaul can easily scale beyond 1 Gbps for it. Such "Turbo+" backhaul should be ordered now if additional fiber strands will need to be pulled, because who knows how many months it'll take AT&T et al to get such work done.

If they want it done, just tell me. I'll get the backhaul taken care of.  ;-)

[saywhatman]

Doesn't rootmetrics use crowd sourced data? If that is indeed the case, these numbers are including the high percentage of single band devices still in circulation. Which in turn are dragging the average score down by quite a bit. That would also explain why Sprint has more wins in less urban environments where 5x5 B25 is sufficient.

 

I do not think Sprint needs to necessarily have 3 Carriers to trump the other wireless companies, what they need to do is get tri band devices in more hands, and keep moving forward on 8t8r installs as quickly as possible, even if the backhaul wont allow full throughput (5mbs vs .5mbs user experience is night and day)

They do their own testing with all triband devices, not crowd sourced. Chicagoland is big, and especially where I live it's very easy to hit big areas of very slow 3G.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[nexgencpu]

They do their own testing with all triband devices, not crowd sourced. Chicagoland is big, and especially where I live it's very easy to hit big areas of very slow 3G.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

I would love to see there testing parameters, locations, devices firmwares etc..

[saywhatman]

http://www.rootmetrics.com/us/methodology

 

I'm on mobile but they list which phones at the bottom of each Rootscore report in the fine print. Usually a Galaxy S5 on the latest firmware.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[nexgencpu]

http://www.rootmetrics.com/us/methodology

I'm on mobile but they list which phones at the bottom of each Rootscore report in the fine print. Usually a Galaxy S5 on the latest firmware.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

No mention of device or versions.

 

Unfortunately for Sprint, some devices perform much worse than others. S5 being at the bottom of the group.

 

I would have figured a more neutral device like a Nexus 5 made more sense. Even tho there are superior RF performing devices on sprint.

[saywhatman]

" RootScore® performance scores and information are based on testing conducted during 9/5/2014 - 9/11/2014, and are derived using methods that rely on random sampling. Phones used during testing: AT&T - Galaxy S5 , Sprint - Galaxy S5 , T-Mobile - Galaxy S5 , Verizon - Galaxy S5 . Wireless network performance is subject to a number of factors that may vary over time. Individual experience may vary."

 

If they used an N5 they couldn't use it on Verizon, they try to use the same device on all networks

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[gnoj]

I would have figured a more neutral device like a Nexus 5 made more sense. Even tho there are superior RF performing devices on sprint.

Now that Verizon is back on board, I wouldn't be surprised if they switch to the Nexus 6, which will allow them to easily swap between the big four, unless they prefer having all 4 phones out at once when they're driving to save time.

 

Even then, a Galaxy S5 is a better reflection of how many people will experience the network, subpar as its RF may be, simply because it is much more popular than any Nexus.

 

I agree that it would be ideal to find a perfectly average phone, RF-wise, but that's difficult when the same model can perform so differently from another carrier. The Note 3 on Verizon, for example.

[jreuschl]

http://www.rootmetrics.com/us/rsr/ord-airport

 

Good score at O'Hare!

 

http://www.rootmetrics.com/us/rsr/mdw-airport

 

MDW, VZ wipes the floor.

[tybo31316]

http://www.rootmetrics.com/us/rsr/ord-airport

 

Good score at O'Hare!

 

http://www.rootmetrics.com/us/rsr/mdw-airport

 

MDW, VZ wipes the floor.

The first time I've ever seen sprint win a rootmetrics test. Hopefully they can do this in multiple cities around the US.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5

[JosefTor]

I wish that root metrics would show the other network parameter results for airports. It doesn't make sense when they just show data but the fastest network doesn't win. Good on ya Sprint!

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[WiWavelength]

If they used an N5 they couldn't use it on Verizon, they try to use the same device on all networks

 

The "same" device, unfortunately, is a superficial determination.  I doubt the powers that be actually examine the FCC OET filings for each "same" device.

 

AJ

[Vince]

Just saw field test populate a clear band 41 site for the first time in North Chicago near the Naval base. 20 MHz? I thought they were broadcasting less than that because of WiMAX.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6

[lilotimz]

Just saw field test populate a clear band 41 site for the first time in North Chicago near the Naval base. 20 MHz? I thought they were broadcasting less than that because of WiMAX.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6

 

All Band 41 carriers are 20 mhz TDD-LTE. 

[Vince]

All Band 41 carriers are 20 mhz TDD-LTE.

But I thought I read here that only 15 was used for LTE and 5 for WiMAX out of that chunk of spectrum.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6

[lilotimz]

But I thought I read here that only 15 was used for LTE and 5 for WiMAX out of that chunk of spectrum.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6

 

No and I've never ever seen that said here. 

[Vince]

No and I've never ever seen that said here.

Then what is WiMAX broadcasting on?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6

[Dkoellerwx]

Then what is WiMAX broadcasting on?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6

 

A different block of spectrum. There's 100+MHz of it available....

[Vince]

A different block of spectrum. There's 100+MHz of it available....

Well, then. I must have completely misunderstood something. Thanks for the clarification.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6

[gnoj]

But I thought I read here that only 15 was used for LTE and 5 for WiMAX out of that chunk of spectrum.

Clearwire's Band Class 3 WiMax, Band 41 TDD LTE, and now Sprint's "8T8R" B41 LTE all currently occupy the 2496-2690 MHz "EBS/BRS" frequency band. Sprint now is the direct licensee for most BRS, but must lease the EBS portion from various educational institutions.

 

So that's up to 194 MHz Sprint could theoretically have access to, but in most markets it has less than that (~100-160 MHz). I'm fairly sure that I've read somewhere that Chicago is one of the better-off markets, with closer to 180 MHz.

 

BC3 WiMax allows for either 5 MHz or 10 MHz carriers. However those are deceptively small numbers. Partly to mitigate any risk of co-channel interference, but mostly because Clearwire was too cheap/lazy to spend the time and money to tune the network given all the spectrum in which they could spread out, WiMax hogs a lot of the band. With 10 MHz carriers deployed, and with each sector in a 3 site cluster broadcasting on a different channel, that's 90 MHz used up right there.

 

So assuming the Clear B41 carrier has to be on a different frequency from an 8T8R carrier (I believe it does due to a slightly different TDD timing ratio), you'll have 20 MHz (Clear LTE) + 60 MHz (one Sprint 8T8R chain) + ~90 MHz WiMax = 170 MHz of EBS/BRS.

 

For WiMax sites configured in clusters of 4, you'd need to do a bit of thinning first (either by removing a site or switching to 5 MHz carriers) to fit everything in. Perhaps that is where you recall hearing about WiMax being restricted to 5 MHz?

 

That is why shutting down WiMax should allow Sprint to quickly fire up a second 60 MHz chain with the existing equipment, if they take the time now to prepare for that by installing the cards & ordering backhaul.

 

Later on this decade, when the need inevitably arises, and they've completed the conversion of Clear-only sites to NV, they can then fire up a third 40-60 MHz chain (in full 8T8R rather than 4T8R mode) from a 2nd set of B41 antennas & RRUs. Perhaps by that time the vendors will have combo 600/2500 antennas for a more efficient and rapid deployment of both bands.

 

There is no reason to shy away from deploying as many B41 carriers as Sprint's spectrum holdings allow to every site in the market. Excess capacity in exurban and rural areas can be monetized for fixed wireless, with higher-order MIMO delivering greater capacity than smartphones will be able to tap into for a long time. Given all of the other technologies being trialed around Chicago (first Spark, next VoLTE), I think this would also be an ideal area to expand the fixed wireless trials with Dish, once a majority of sites have the 8T8R's up in the collar counties of Kendall, Kane, McHenry, and then everything west to the edge of the market.

[lilotimz]

That is why shutting down WiMax should allow Sprint to quickly fire up a second 60 MHz chain with the existing equipment, if they take the time now to prepare for that by installing the cards & ordering backhaul.

 

 

Modern DUs for LTE services are all software to activate LTE carriers or modify existing LTE carriers within its design parameters. No more costly site visits to add "carrier cards" to activate additional RAT carriers are required anymore as long as you operate within the limit of the DU (say 2.5 DU for ALU/ STA / NN [formerly known as NSN])  as you can configure it remotely. 

[gnoj]

Modern DUs for LTE services are all software to activate LTE carriers or modify existing LTE carriers within its design parameters. No more costly site visits to add "carrier cards" to activate additional RAT carriers are required anymore as long as you operate within the limit of the DU (say 2.5 DU for ALU/ STA / NN [formerly known as NSN]) as you can configure it remotely.

 

Ah, excellent. Adjusting carriers remotely has long been on the industry wishlist. I'm glad they finally got there.

 

On the original NV equipment, can an existing B25 carrier have its channel width adjusted remotely, assuming the adjoining spectrum is already clear, or would that require on-site reprogramming?

[lilotimz]

Ah, excellent. Adjusting carriers remotely has long been on the industry wishlist. I'm glad they finally got there.

 

On the original NV equipment, can an existing B25 carrier have its channel width adjusted remotely, assuming the adjoining spectrum is already clear, or would that require on-site reprogramming?

Everything can be done remotely these days but it's always nice to have a physical presence in case something goes wrong.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[tommym65]

. . .

So assuming the Clear B41 carrier has to be on a different frequency from an 8T8R carrier (I believe it does due to a slightly different TDD timing ratio), you'll have 20 MHz (Clear LTE) + 60 MHz (one Sprint 8T8R chain) + ~90 MHz WiMax = 170 MHz of EBS/BRS.

. . .

 

I don't recognize the term "8T8R chain". Can you explain it, or link me to someplace that explains it? Thanks.

 

If my decrepit EVO is still giving correct engineering data, Sprint has indeed re-farmed the Chicagoland Clear spectrum to 5 MHz blocks.

[lilotimz]

I don't recognize the term "8T8R chain". Can you explain it, or link me to someplace that explains it? Thanks.

 

If my decrepit EVO is still giving correct engineering data, Sprint has indeed re-farmed the Chicagoland Clear spectrum to 5 MHz blocks.

 

With the 2.5 radios that Sprint has procured, they specifically tested and certified the equipment for two maximum 4x MIMO chains running in 4T8R setting.

 

Each 4x MIMO chain can support up to three individual 20 mhz carriers and do 2 or 3 carrier aggregation. Running 2 chains of 4x MIMO will have all 8 antennas broadcasting instead of just 4 of them in one broadcasting in one chain with 8 receiving. Thus you can broadcast a maximum of six 20 mhz carriers for 120mhz spectrum in total. 

 

Activating 4x MIMO also allows them to do more interesting setups that the equipment are very capable of such as higher order mu-mimo, more advanced beamforming techniques, and other LTE Rel 11/10 stuff. 

[coolmac]

Hey guys I live in the Naperville area, I noticed that my Note 4 going back and forth between band 26 & 41 mostly on band 41 I am inside my house. Are they optimizing in my area now for spark?