T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion V2

[Fraydog]

That Des d-bag sorta reminds me of a vampire from Blade II

 

 

That's a bit immature I know, but as that's the level that the boys in hot pink operate on I don't feel too bad about it.

Part of me just wants to let them go, and see if claim chowder pops up down the line, but deep down I think TMUS has to realize that they're now the 3 carrier and will be the ones in AT&T and Verizon crosshairs.

 

Every dog has their day. Let them have their moment in the sun. That said, I can still point out their Fatherland isn't wanting them around and they really don't have anyone that wants them who can buy TMUS either. Altice would make sense but I doubt DT would get enough cash out of it.

 

 

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[cortney]

That Des d-bag sorta reminds me of a vampire from Blade II

 

 

That's a bit immature I know, but as that's the level that the boys in hot pink operate on I don't feel too bad about it.

 

No, it is not immature of you. Humor should be encouraged in moderation to offer appropriate comic relief from the ugly side that pink mobile has to offer and all the apologizing and credit given to them.

 

How can one not mock them? They tout second-rate virtually all mid-band urban-based service as competitive, quality service compared to Verizon, AT&T even Sprint, then cry about being oppressed by the big two to explain their rural conundrum. If they do great in certain markets, awesome. If low-band makes them a viable competitor in certain markets, fantastic. 

 

The damage control brigade always says NV has taken too long? No, hilariously wrong. The original range was 3-5 years. It's actually on course.  

http://newsroom.sprint.com/news-releases/sprint-announces-network-vision-network-evolution-plan.htm

(start in 2011 + 5 = finish by 2016)

 

However, I'd say T-Mobile is actually the offender for taking an excruciatingly long amount of time to do projects (2G to 3G, helloooo?). Offering deflections about insignificant treats for e-penis speedaholics and diverting the attention to what they've already done. 

[orangeblue]

I was traveling last week between New Orleans and Baton Rouge and my iPhone6plus got spoiled by TMo's Edge and 4G network. In some parts of the state. The lack of roaming partners was also very bad at times. Sprint worked very well, much better as expected and I never left the Sprint network.

[derrph]

I was traveling last week between New Orleans and Baton Rouge and my iPhone6plus got spoiled by TMo's Edge and 4G network. In some parts of the state. The lack of roaming partners was also very bad at times. Sprint worked very well, much better as expected and I never left the Sprint network.

How was the data on tmobiles 4g compared to sprints?

 

 

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[travismheim]

I wouldn't necessarily call it taking a load off the network. How many people stream local radio? My guess is not many. Most are streaming spotify, Pandora, etc.. It is, however, a fantastic tool for emergencies.

 

Sent from my LG G4

I used to use the FM tuner a lot when I had my EVO LTE. Its one of the things I miss about that phone, batter life was way better listening via FM tuner vs streaming.

 

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[orangeblue]

How was the data on tmobiles 4g compared to sprints?

 

 

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Sprint delivered speeds between 5-10MB down on B25/B26 on my LG G3 while I stayed on Edge/HSPA on TMo mostly on freeways. At times TMo's data even on LTE was not usable for streaming music and the network seemed congested. Speed bounced between 0.5-20MB down which is not a very reliable experience. My Verizon phone (LG G2) was working as expected good.

[Fraydog]

Sprint delivered speeds between 5-10MB down on B25/B26 on my LG G3 while I stayed on Edge/HSPA on TMo mostly on freeways. At times TMo's data even on LTE was not usable for streaming music and the network seemed congested. Speed bounced between 0.5-20MB down which is not a very reliable experience. My Verizon phone (LG G2) was working as expected good.

 

That's the whole problem with T-Mobile's network right now, the experience as far as reliable data usage isn't as consistent as lots of people would expect and want, but the problem is T-Mobile's marketing has conditioned a bunch of people to believe in a new set of network spec wars. They're convinced that it's a better network because "ooh look at the speed test SHINY". 

 

Lots of people who are otherwise smart that don't get the outside world. There aren't a lot of applications that I can think of off the top of my head that really need a greater than 10 Mbps feed. Sprint is north of that on Ookla's measurements yet we see people like Des go "ooh e-Peen mine is bigger than yours" and in a way Marcelo was a little guilty of feeding it as well. The most that I can think of as far as data usage is YouTube 2k (1440p) where that probably fits under 10 Mbps anyway, or some extremely data intense form of online game. I'm literally thinking of the apps on my phone that would consume more than 10 Mbps on my phone right now and the only one on the list would be SpeedTest the holy grail of T-Mobile's Monty Python act. Everything else is very well covered by the wide swath of Verizon LTE coverage here, there's only a few times where I've ever had to deal with the experience of buffering of video. Compare that to the T-Mobile e-penis, hmm, I wonder what would be a better path for Sprint to chase after, let me think about that...     

 

Also, a key metric to find out if someone is out of their element is when they mention "T-Mobile has 20,000 more macro cells than Verizon" ignoring that Verizon is faster with over twice as many customers in part because of their aggressive small cell usage. Verizon is adding macros where they need to, the thing is they don't need to build another 20,000 macros to match T-Mobile coverage even if T-Mobile grabs all the 700 A and has nationwide spectrum in that block. 

[payturr]

The thing is with T-Mo is that while they use state of the art hardware and have a rather dense network in cities, their spectrum holdings across the nation vary so much that the experiences are all over the place. In NYC, you can enjoy fast and smooth 15x15 AWS, then go out to Milkwaukee and be caught on their broke and beaten 10x10 network. IIRC, some markets are stuck with 5x5 and everyone knows how bad 5x5 can be for a single band under complete load!

 

T-Mo is going in the right direction but some markets really need a lot of spectrum to better balance the experience

[Fraydog]

The thing is with T-Mo is that while they use state of the art hardware and have a rather dense network in cities, their spectrum holdings across the nation vary so much that the experiences are all over the place. In NYC, you can enjoy fast and smooth 15x15 AWS, then go out to Milkwaukee and be caught on their broke and beaten 10x10 network. IIRC, some markets are stuck with 5x5 and everyone knows how bad 5x5 can be for a single band under complete load!

 

T-Mo is going in the right direction but some markets really need a lot of spectrum to better balance the experience

 

That's where both of the smaller providers get beaten by Verizon though, VZW has been much better at providing a stable 10 Mbps and up connection. 

 

Even still, Sprint does better in things that measure reliability like calls and texts. Maybe 5x5 700 MHz will help T-Mobile but VZW is already using small cells to fully leverage their advantage in consistency. Verizon has always had a consistency of strategy that is admirable and it's something Sprint should copy. Honestly the latest small cell plan Sprint has is the closest thing I can think of to that strategy. 

[lilotimz]

That's where both of the smaller providers get beaten by Verizon though, VZW has been much better at providing a stable 10 Mbps and up connection. 

 

Even still, Sprint does better in things that measure reliability like calls and texts. Maybe 5x5 700 MHz will help T-Mobile but VZW is already using small cells to fully leverage their advantage in consistency. Verizon has always had a consistency of strategy that is admirable and it's something Sprint should copy. Honestly the latest small cell plan Sprint has is the closest thing I can think of to that strategy. 

 

Just a year behind. No biggie... Verizon is doing what Sprint is planning to do. That is the difference between the #1 carrier in the US and the #4 or #3 or whoever else. 

 

They don't announce anything really. They just do it and do it consistently. Consistency is something Sprint lacks. 

[joshuam]

I've had my main line on T-Mobile for over a month now. Being in a Band 12 market means I have LTE pretty much everywhere. This is something T-Mobile is beating Sprint big time. They are adding Band 12 sites in places that matter, I can't say that about Sprint's band 26 deployment. And T-Mobile's band 12 seems to enhance coverage significantly, while band 26 helps building penetration, but not overall coverage (at least when not optimized). I've found one area with congested towers (0.5Mbps down, but 10Mbps uploads), otherwise my experience on T-Mobile is pretty consistent around central Maryland, with speeds above 10Mbps.

 

I imagine the experience is much worse in markets without band 12 though. So I understand the big need T-Mobile has for low band spectrum.

[Fraydog]

I've had my main line on T-Mobile for over a month now. Being in a Band 12 market means I have LTE pretty much everywhere. This is something T-Mobile is beating Sprint big time. They are adding Band 12 sites in places that matter, I can't say that about Sprint's band 26 deployment. And T-Mobile's band 12 seems to enhance coverage significantly, while band 26 helps building penetration, but not overall coverage (at least when not optimized). I've found one area with congested towers (0.5Mbps down, but 10Mbps uploads), otherwise my experience on T-Mobile is pretty consistent around central Maryland, with speeds above 10Mbps.

 

I imagine the experience is much worse in markets without band 12 though. So I understand the big need T-Mobile has for low band spectrum.

 

I don't live in a B12 market. St. Louis has a very dense cell grid for T-Mobile, and people still have indoor issues. Either T-Mobile has to get that 700 MHz off USCC or be incredibly liberal with their small cell deployments. Where I live in Chester, I get 3-4 bars of LTE outdoors, 30-40 Mbps outdoor, and can barely hold an LTE signal inside. So where I live, T-Mobile isn't that great of an option. 

[Arysyn]

Everyone here is correct about T-Mobile. For instance, while it has improved a lot here in the Chicago area with the AWS spectrum allocation increase for LTE, the coverage reliability is aa bit odd.

 

I remember my trip to Algonquin several weeks ago, which T-Mobile remained at a very reliable LTE connection and speed. Yet, I'm still baffled at how poor the connection was on my trip down LaGrange Road on the way to Orland Park.

 

As others have mentioned similar irregularities in their connection with T-Mobile where they live, I can imagine this becoming more of a problem for T-Mobile the more people who realize this, especially when Sprint really starts turning things around for the better with NGN and lots more band 41.

[bigsnake49]

I've had my main line on T-Mobile for over a month now. Being in a Band 12 market means I have LTE pretty much everywhere. This is something T-Mobile is beating Sprint big time. They are adding Band 12 sites in places that matter, I can't say that about Sprint's band 26 deployment. And T-Mobile's band 12 seems to enhance coverage significantly, while band 26 helps building penetration, but not overall coverage (at least when not optimized). I've found one area with congested towers (0.5Mbps down, but 10Mbps uploads), otherwise my experience on T-Mobile is pretty consistent around central Maryland, with speeds above 10Mbps.

 

I imagine the experience is much worse in markets without band 12 though. So I understand the big need T-Mobile has for low band spectrum.

The reason that band 26 does not behave the same way as band 12 on TMUSis that Sprint had to use band 26 for capacity and not coverage since they only had one 5MHz channel of band 25. So they have deployed band 26 at every site and downtilted the panels to avoid interference with neighboring sites. This is where Sprint's lack of mid and spectrum hurts them. Their insistence on not procuring additional mid band spectrum was shortsighted to say the least. I'd like to say they screwed up the pooch .

[dnwk]

I have not quite figure out how T-Mobile decide where to allow you to roam. In their coverage map, some area they will allow to roam on AT&T but not in some other area. I couldn't quite figure out their logic why not allow AT&T roaming in all area where they don't have coverage.

[Yuhfhrh]

I have not quite figure out how T-Mobile decide where to allow you to roam. In their coverage map, some area they will allow to roam on AT&T but not in some other area. I couldn't quite figure out their logic why not allow AT&T roaming in all area where they don't have coverage.

 

To save on roaming costs, they don't offer nationwide roaming on ATT.

[dnwk]

To save on roaming costs, they don't offer nationwide roaming on ATT.

 

I use 1Mb of data in Montana will cost them the same as in Idaho, it doesn't make sense. I was start to wondering if they were restricted to roam on PCS area of AT&T

[Deval]

I wasn't aware of any small cell deployment plan for T-Mobile, is that new?

[joshuam]

I wasn't aware of any small cell deployment plan for T-Mobile, is that new?

 

Fairly recent...last couple months. I haven't seen it written anywhere really, but Legere mentions it every so often.

[ericdabbs]

The reason that band 26 does not behave the same way as band 12 on TMUSis that Sprint had to use band 26 for capacity and not coverage since they only had one 5MHz channel of band 25. So they have deployed band 26 at every site and downtilted the panels to avoid interference with neighboring sites. This is where Sprint's lack of mid and spectrum hurts them. Their insistence on not procuring additional mid band spectrum was shortsighted to say the least. I'd like to say they screwed up the pooch .

Do u still think sprint should have bid on the pcs h block sliver of spectrum? I think a single 5x5 block is not enough to fill the masses especially given how long it is going to take to unwind CDMA.

 

I just hate the fact that dish bought it and is just sitting on the spectrum with no movement on turning that spectrum into a band class and using it.

[EvanA]

Do u still think sprint should have bid on the pcs h block sliver of spectrum? I think a single 5x5 block is not enough to fill the masses especially given how long it is going to take to unwind CDMA.

 

I just hate the fact that dish bought it and is just sitting on the spectrum with no movement on turning that spectrum into a band class and using it.

No, because as mentioned before, the PCS H block as power restrictions due to it being adjacent to AWS-4 uplink. No carrier wants to deal with those restrictions.

[ericdabbs]

No, because as mentioned before, the PCS H block as power restrictions due to it being adjacent to AWS-4 uplink. No carrier wants to deal with those restrictions.

But wasnt the power restrictions limited to just the uplink and not on the downlink? I believe dish was planning to convert the neighboring S-band to supplemental downlink but I guess that was only if they obtained the h block. I thought the real reason for sprint not bidding was that dish set the high reserve price at $1.56 billion.

[Fraydog]

I wasn't aware of any small cell deployment plan for T-Mobile, is that new?

 

For now it's just indoor small cells but people have mentioned in passing about further plans with small cells starting in 2016. 

[lilotimz]

For now it's just indoor small cells but people have mentioned in passing about further plans with small cells starting in 2016.

They will do strategic small cell deployments where needed. It won't be a humongous network wide expansion like Verizon is currently doing or sprint is planning to do.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5

[Deval]

Fairly recent...last couple months. I haven't seen it written anywhere really, but Legere mentions it every so often.

 

So are there any in actual use? I really am curious.