T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion V2

[dkyeager]

Continuing with other FRNs for New or cancelled leases

 

Leases from T-Mobile to Verizon. https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsEntry/attachments/attachmentViewRD.jsp?applType=search&fileKey=1885916003&attachmentKey=21546107&attachmentInd=applAttach

Uses instant leases, so may already be effective.

Places affected:

T-Mobile to Verizon:

B2: BTA437-Sunbury-Shamokin, PA, BTA360-Pottsville, PA, BTA041-Billing,s MT, BTA171-Great Falls, MT, BTA037-Bemidji, MN, Portion of MTA032-Des Moines-Quad Cities, Portion of MTA030-Portland, OR, Portion of MTA005-Detroit, MI, BTA380-Rockford, IL, BTA049-Blythville, AR,

AWS: Portion of BEA024 – Columbia, SC,  Portion of MTA040-Little Rock, AR.

 

These may be part of another deal or one already mentioned. 

 

Below is chart of DT making T-Mobile a full subsidiary:

https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsEntry/attachments/attachmentViewRD.jsp?applType=search&fileKey=1015982052&attachmentKey=21562538&attachmentInd=applAttach

I have seen ramifications of over 4,000 licenses being transferred between subsidiarys.

 

FRN=15316904

Leases cancelled:

El Paso, TX https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/licenseMap.jsp?licKey=2592371

Cape Coral, FL https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/licenseMap.jsp?licKey=2588554

 

FRN=17806043

Deal with World Class Wireless, LLC:

1) https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsEntry/attachments/attachmentViewRD.jsp?applType=search&fileKey=1443732051&attachmentKey=21519947&attachmentInd=applAttach

https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/ApplicationSearch/applLeases.jsp?applID=13477102

2) https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsEntry/attachments/attachmentViewRD.jsp?applType=search&fileKey=468777408&attachmentKey=21519956&attachmentInd=applAttach

https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/ApplicationSearch/applLeases.jsp?applID=13477087

3) https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsEntry/attachments/attachmentViewRD.jsp?applType=search&fileKey=1006236905&attachmentKey=21519963&attachmentInd=applAttach

https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/ApplicationSearch/applLeases.jsp?applID=13470381

FRN = 31648942

PCS leased to Alaskan Wireless

https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsEntry/attachments/attachmentViewRD.jsp?applType=search&fileKey=639665441&attachmentKey=21597148&attachmentInd=applAttach

 

 

The following FRNs were searched above for New or Cancelled leases in AD, AH, AT, AW, BR, CW, CY, ED, UU, WP, WT, WU, WY, WZ using ULS application search.

T-Mobile License LLC 1565449

 Nextel West Corp. 1608363

T-Mobile USA, Inc. 4121760

Nextel of Puerto Rico, Inc. 4335196

Clearwire Spectrum Holdings LLC 13892427

 Clearwire Spectrum Holdings II, LLC 15316904

ATI Sub LLC 17806043

Clearwire Spectrum Holdings III, LLC 18399998

 Sprint Spectrum License Holder LLC 25738147

 Sprint Spectrum License Holder II LLC 25898529

 SprintCom LLC 31648942

[tybo31316]

I’ve had a 5G device since March of this year. I’ve noticed that 5G would drop off and fall back to LTE. I understand that NSA 5G depends on LTE to connect. So usually when I connect to LTE it’s B12 or B71. Mostly in buildings.  When T-Mobile goes to SA 5G will n71 have more range because it’s not dependent upon LTE to stay connected?

[dkyeager]

52 minutes ago, tybo31316 said:

I’ve had a 5G device since March of this year. I’ve noticed that 5G would drop off and fall back to LTE. I understand that NSA 5G depends on LTE to connect. So usually when I connect to LTE it’s B12 or B71. Mostly in buildings.  When T-Mobile goes to SA 5G will n71 have more range because it’s not dependent upon LTE to stay connected?

It will be stronger at the edge due to increased bandwidth.  At some sites T-Mobile may then decide to increase the range.  They will need to ensure high quality signal else calls will drop on VoNR.

[tybo31316]

49 minutes ago, dkyeager said:

It will be stronger at the edge due to increased bandwidth.  At some sites T-Mobile may then decide to increase the range.  They will need to ensure high quality signal else calls will drop on VoNR.

So does T-Mobile run their sites at lower power than other carriers. T-Mobile seem to drop from 5G to LTE quicker than my AT&T line even when they on the same site. 

[dkyeager]

Unless others answer first, this something I will check in the coming days. 

Many possible variables.  #1 is different phones.  I have two  Samsung A32 5Gs (T-Mobile firmware and unlocked firmware so I can basically control for that. 

#2 is priority of plans.  I have Magenta Max on T-Mobile for high priority, although that normally only matters at a very few sites, large festivals, and disasters. My low prirority MVNO (Tello) typically work the same.  Verizon is a much different matter - my low priority MVNO barely functions at many locations around town, thus I primarily rely on a high priority pooled plan.  AT&T fall in between the two.  My low priority AT&T is often slower than my mid priority plan (that is as close as I am willing to get).

#3 Technologies can also differ, especially for low band.  AT&T uses DSS on band 5 versus NSA or SA on band 71 for T-Mobile.  Mid band story is quite close: n77 c-band for AT&T versus n41 for T-Mobile..  T-Mobile wins on bandwidth in both cases.  In some markets now T-Mobile has two Channels of n41 measuring up to 100Mhz and 90Mhz.  In one market that I know of, they also have n77 on macro sites.  Ideally you can lock bands, which I can.

#4 is your location.  Ideally both are from the same site in the middle of the sector, about 1000 feet away. on the same elevation.  best at the same spot.  This is harder to do than it sounds.

#5 Is the technology at the site.  Different vendors and equipment have different characteristics.  Same with backhaul related to use.  To minimize backhaul and demand, you would want to test at dawn.

#6 is how you would measure any difference.  Multiple tries would be needed. drop the best and worst.  In my case this would be subjective. others may know of tools to use. 

There may be other items which I did not think of. How do your tests compare with this list?

 

 

[mikejeep]

I believe it could also be as simple as the network having you idle on certain bands when you're not actively transferring data. In my experience I've noticed that I often will sit on LTE in some areas that have strong NR coverage, and if I start flowing more data it will move me over. i don't have the technical knowledge to confirm if that is just coincidental or intentional, but it's definitely a pattern I've noticed.

It could also be related to capacity at the site, if a lot of users are on one particular cell it is my understanding that you may be moved to another.

[xmx1024]

On 10/28/2022 at 11:13 AM, tybo31316 said:

So does T-Mobile run their sites at lower power than other carriers. T-Mobile seem to drop from 5G to LTE quicker than my AT&T line even when they on the same site. 

It is in a network operator's best interest to make sure your handset is connected in the most efficient manner possible. Having your phone hang onto a distant or noisy signal eating up disproportionately more airtime due to being at a lower modulation rate is a poor experience for the user & inefficient use of network resources. 

[mikejeep]

Carrier settings on my Pixel 7 updated today and changed my version to tmobile_us-40000000030.9
2022-11-15. I always check my version when a Carrier Settings update comes through Google Play, and it's been several months since it has changed; presumably those updates include changes for all providers, so it's not always something that impacts T-Mobile users.

Maybe something new and exciting.. or maybe not..

[jreuschl]

On 10/21/2022 at 7:28 PM, BucketHead25 said:

I was at the Makers Mark distillery a couple weeks back and had no signal.  Not too far from Bardstown.

Cheers!  So was I recently.  Service was terrible around there and no data access on AT&T.

[gr8nuguy]

9 hours ago, mikejeep said:

Carrier settings on my Pixel 7 updated today and changed my version to tmobile_us-40000000030.9
2022-11-15. I always check my version when a Carrier Settings update comes through Google Play, and it's been several months since it has changed; presumably those updates include changes for all providers, so it's not always something that impacts T-Mobile users.

Maybe something new and exciting.. or maybe not..

Mine on my s22+ shows version 2.390001 now, but had been 2.370001 until recently 

[PedroDaGr8]

On 11/21/2022 at 7:09 PM, gr8nuguy said:

Mine on my s22+ shows version 2.390001 now, but had been 2.370001 until recently 

My S22U is currently showing 2.400001 after a Carrier Services Update. It was at 2.380001 yesterday.

[mikejeep]

Remember when we used to track PRL updates like this back in the day with @digiblur.. ahh memories!

[red_dog007]

Well, TMobile seems to have deployed 5G on PCS.  That is pretty cool.  What, they have like ~180MHz now of dedicated 5G spectrum up and running?

I've been curious when we will see ATT and VZW refarming their midband for 5G.

[clbowens]

would anyone know why my phone stays on the 311490 network now.  which doesn't look like it connects to 5G SA. 

and just FYI, I just upgraded to the S23.  On Sprint billing with T-Mobile SIM

 

[Yuhfhrh]

On 12/18/2022 at 10:57 AM, red_dog007 said:

Well, TMobile seems to have deployed 5G on PCS.  That is pretty cool.  What, they have like ~180MHz now of dedicated 5G spectrum up and running?

I've been curious when we will see ATT and VZW refarming their midband for 5G.

AT&T has already deployed DSS on large portions of their midband spectrum. You can access n2/n66/n30 in NSA on a lot of sites, but they still haven't let consumers on their SA core yet.

I would assume Verizon will follow the same path of DSS on midband eventually. T-Mobile has the luxury of having so much sub-2.5GHz spectrum that DSS isn't entirely necessary for them.

[iansltx]

22 hours ago, Yuhfhrh said:

AT&T has already deployed DSS on large portions of their midband spectrum. You can access n2/n66/n30 in NSA on a lot of sites, but they still haven't let consumers on their SA core yet.

I would assume Verizon will follow the same path of DSS on midband eventually. T-Mobile has the luxury of having so much sub-2.5GHz spectrum that DSS isn't entirely necessary for them.

In San Antonio and Austin, VZW doesn't have 850, so they've been running n2 DSS for awhile now, though increasingly phones don't use it because n2 coverage is poor enough to be subsumed by C-Band.

I've seen AT&T n2 and n66 DSS here, but hadn't seen any n30. Can you point to proof of the latter? Seems like 2300 would be an ideal band to not bother with DSS and switch entirely over to NR, as it's only 10x10 anyway and there's plenty of spectrum below 2300 for phones to connect to.

[Yuhfhrh]

2 hours ago, iansltx said:

In San Antonio and Austin, VZW doesn't have 850, so they've been running n2 DSS for awhile now, though increasingly phones don't use it because n2 coverage is poor enough to be subsumed by C-Band.

I've seen AT&T n2 and n66 DSS here, but hadn't seen any n30. Can you point to proof of the latter? Seems like 2300 would be an ideal band to not bother with DSS and switch entirely over to NR, as it's only 10x10 anyway and there's plenty of spectrum below 2300 for phones to connect to.

You can find n30 in Dallas, I saw it driving through there in November.

att n30 sa sib.txt

[PedroDaGr8]

Does anyone know why T-Mobile only ever uses 3x Nokia AEHCs on a site (even for sites with more than 3 sectors)? I haven't found a single site that has four or more AEHC on it. They sometimes include sector IDs (like 304) which indicate higher but if you look, they just skipped one of the sector IDs. Additionally, they don't seem to have this limitation in Ericsson markets, which makes me think it is something about the Nokia equipment. 

[clbowens]

Question:  Is the Galaxy s23 capable of doing 4x CA with N25 + N41 + N41 + N71?  And if so, has anyone seen T-Mobile do this yet?

[dkyeager]

2 hours ago, clbowens said:

Question:  Is the Galaxy s23 capable of doing 4x CA with N25 + N41 + N41 + N71?  And if so, has anyone seen T-Mobile do this yet?

I believe T-Mobile said this would happen later this year.

[mdob07]

I've noticed that T-Mobile has changed their n2 and B25 LTE carriers in the past few days. Instead of just shrinking one and expanding the other they flipped them, the 15x15 that was B2 LTE is now n25, and the 10x10 n25 is now B2 LTE. Not sure why they did it that way since they have 30x30 to play with. They must be keeping some reserved for 3G still within Louisville and didn't want to shift that. I noticed once I get south of Jefferson county it shifts to 20x20 n25 and 10x10 B2 still flipped from previous configuration but with n25 expanded.

[PedroDaGr8]

30 minutes ago, mdob07 said:

I've noticed that T-Mobile has changed their n2 and B25 LTE carriers in the past few days. Instead of just shrinking one and expanding the other they flipped them, the 15x15 that was B2 LTE is now n25, and the 10x10 n25 is now B2 LTE. Not sure why they did it that way since they have 30x30 to play with. They must be keeping some reserved for 3G still within Louisville and didn't want to shift that. I noticed once I get south of Jefferson county it shifts to 20x20 n25 and 10x10 B2 still flipped from previous configuration but with n25 expanded.

I wonder if it has anything to do with the roll out of VoNR which has just started.  

[iansltx]

6 hours ago, mdob07 said:

I've noticed that T-Mobile has changed their n2 and B25 LTE carriers in the past few days. Instead of just shrinking one and expanding the other they flipped them, the 15x15 that was B2 LTE is now n25, and the 10x10 n25 is now B2 LTE. Not sure why they did it that way since they have 30x30 to play with. They must be keeping some reserved for 3G still within Louisville and didn't want to shift that. I noticed once I get south of Jefferson county it shifts to 20x20 n25 and 10x10 B2 still flipped from previous configuration but with n25 expanded.

Impressive that they're already at 20x20 n25 when phone support is as spotty as it is tbh. Not that I'm complaining...

[mdob07]

2 hours ago, iansltx said:

Impressive that they're already at 20x20 n25 when phone support is as spotty as it is tbh. Not that I'm complaining...

Yeah I was surprised they cut B2 lte back to just 10x10. So here that makes 140MHz n41, plus either 10x10 or 15x15 n25 plus 5x5 n25 plus 15x15 n71 active here now. I wonder how long it will be before they cut into their 40MHz B41 to increase n41 to either 160 or 180MHz. Not that backhaul is sufficient to max out what is already on air now. 

[dkyeager]

https://www.telecompetitor.com/5g-revenue-analysis-fwa-ranks-last-out-of-8-services-at-the-top-is/

No mention of network slicing.  Low speed IOT makes sense to me, but how long will it take to ramp up?  How much support costs to help get it launched to a much larger degree?