Sprint TD-LTE 2500/2600mhz Discussion

[linhpham2]

Will any of the ~8,500 Clearwire sites that are not currently colocated with Sprint receive full NV (800/1900 equipment) upgrades? Or are they all close enough to existing Sprint sites that they would only provide redundant coverage? If Sprint is planning on installing new small cells to help overcome 2500's limited range, then perhaps some of those will be on such Clearwire sites that would otherwise prove redundant.

 

Who knows? Sprint hasn't said yet. I'd expect 2.5 to be mainly used for offloading traffic from 800/1900. So, it'd be a priority band rather than for "redundancy". 800 will be used for backup/redundancy when 2.5 and 1900 aren't available.

[sbolen]

I just met a nice crew of Clearwire installers, who had just finished installing new RRUs. Said they came from Michigan, had Pennsylvania plates on their trucks/trailers, and were off to do more upgrades in the St. Louis area after this site.

 

Here's hoping this was new equipment for me to take advantage of, being so close to the tower.

 

(Pics of the new panels here)

[S4GRU]

gnoj, on 30 Jul 2013 - 3:07 PM, said:

gnoj, on 30 Jul 2013 - 3:07 PM, said:

gnoj, on 30 Jul 2013 - 3:07 PM, said:

 

Will any of the ~8,500 Clearwire sites that are not currently colocated with Sprint receive full NV (800/1900 equipment) upgrades? Or are they all close enough to existing Sprint sites that they would only provide redundant coverage? If Sprint is planning on installing new small cells to help overcome 2500's limited range, then perhaps some of those will be on such Clearwire sites that would otherwise prove redundant.

 

With 38k sites (or is it 39k now- not sure if the stats on the Sites Complete page includes converted Nextel and Clearwire sites or not) + an untold number of small cells (perhaps 8,500?) + a handful of old Nextel sites would leave Sprint with a very dense and robust network before even counting new sites that may be added if Son wants to expand the native footprint to take on the big two in rural areas and out west- all with TD LTE!

 

It would also leave T-Mo with almost no choice but to upgrade all their EDGE sites to at least HSPA+. I think we'll know within 18 months if DT will sell off the company to Dish or keep it and put some money and effort into improving their network.

This is the current question du jour left over after all the TD-LTE 2600 discussion today. Most likely, they will all be converted to NV at some point (even if just for 2600), especially if the site provides a long term and meaningful coverage location. And if 1900 or 800 makes sense, they will probably add it. Especially in areas outside of Sprint coverage.

 

However, within Sprint coverage, I would venture to guess that 90%+ of these Clearwire sites that are not colocated with Sprint probably would not do anything to add 800 or 1900. These are typically in very dense urban locations. 800 cannot really be installed on every site in dense areas. So most of these extra sites are needed for 2600 infill, but are already well covered by 1900 and would be way overcovered by 800 when the market is built out.

 

Doing a full NV build out of a typical Clearwire only site will not be easy. Most of the time, Clearwire panels/RRU's are attached directly to the monopole/tower support and rarely are on antenna distribution array racks. To add the NV panels, the Clearwire mount would have to be converted to a full rack to accommodate additional panels and RRU's. It would be an expensive and semi-difficult transition, and they may run into engineering difficulties or owners who do not want to deal with the problem. And seeing how most Clearwire sites do not offer unique coverage, this is rarely going to be worth the effort. Especially since most of the sites will be well bathed in adjacent 1900/800 coverage after NV build out. And also today, Sprint said they will be adding even more TD-LTE 2600 to infill between existing sites where capacity is needed. These new infill sites will definitely not be full NV 800/1900 build outs.

 

There will be a few unique sites. Maybe 1,000 or so, that might be worthy of a full NV upgrade with 1900/800 service. And most of these will be Protection Sites. Sprint has a good opportunity with Clearwire Substantial Service Sites to upgrade these to Network Vision with all three bands. Especially since most Protection Sites are Huawei gear, they have to be replaced. Might as well move them to NV while switching them out. Converting the unique coverage Protection Sites will give Sprint some noteworthy new service. I think I may do a take off of these tonight.

 

Robert

[koiulpoi]

I just met a nice crew of Clearwire installers, who had just finished installing new RRUs. Said they came from Michigan, had Pennsylvania plates on their trucks/trailers, and were off to do more upgrades in the St. Louis area after this site.

 

Here's hoping this was new equipment for me to take advantage of, being so close to the tower.

 

(Pics of the new panels here)

Michigan eh? So what you're saying is, somewhere in Grand Rapids, there's a decent chance I could pick up some 2.5 GHz? That's what I'm taking it as.

[sbolen]

Michigan eh? So what you're saying is, somewhere in Grand Rapids, there's a decent chance I could pick up some 2.5 GHz? That's what I'm taking it as.

Only one way to find out, right?

[koiulpoi]

Only one way to find out, right?

Yes, wait for service to get activated on my MiFi 500. C'mon 3rd party/demo team, hurry up...

[digiblur]

One of the big things about NV basestations is they have lots of room for more cards. Ramp up the fiber connection. Pop in another LTE card. Hook up the RRU and rock and roll.

 

Almost the same thing as the 800LTE rollout. Except the RRU and fiber is already there. They just need the card.

[mc_gusto]

Wow so let me get this straight. We went from 2600 only being in the top markets on clear sites. To all clear sites. To all clear sites + all sprint sites. To all clear + all sprint + additional infill sites. Far cry from what we thought. Wow that's alot, infill almost seems like overkill. Which isn't a bad thing for consumers. But you would think 1900 and 800 lte would be plenty in places where 40k 2600 sites wouldn't reach. This is gonna be one bad ass network. Just hope it's financially viable.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[ceopwong]

http://www.wirelessweek.com/news/2013/07/sprint-records-16b-loss-wake-iden-shutdown

 

 

Although this article does not state timelines. It does reiterate the "importance" of 2.5 spectrum for Sprint after the Clear acquisition. It did state which bands the handsets will have coming later this year. Of course (drum roll!) the iPhone will not play ball and support all the bands of NV. I thought this would be good reading for everyone! I figured it was about time I added substance to the site! Have a great day everyone!

 

Pwong

 

P.S. In case (like me) are too impatient and lazy to read the article then this is what key takeaway from the article!

"Elfman said the company will have a few tri-band handsets in the fourth quarter that will support the company's spectrum holdings in the 2.5 GHz, 1.9 GHz and 800 MHz bands. Beginning in 2014, all of the devices Sprint sells will support the 2.5 GHz band. But Elfman said that comment should be taken with regard to all devices except for the iPhone, which he declined to comment on."

[WiWavelength]

There will be a few unique sites. Maybe 1,000 or so, that might be worthy of a full NV upgrade with 1900/800 service. And most of these will be Protection Sites. Sprint has a good opportunity with Clearwire Substantial Service Sites to upgrade these to Network Vision with all three bands.

 

And I suspect that we have now seen how Sprint will meet the impending PCS G block construction requirements in the next three years in those BEAs where Sprint does not currently have native network coverage.

 

http://s4gru.com/index.php?/topic/3703-potential-sprint-rural-buildout-by-2016/

 

AJ

[digiblur]

I just met a nice crew of Clearwire installers, who had just finished installing new RRUs. Said they came from Michigan, had Pennsylvania plates on their trucks/trailers, and were off to do more upgrades in the St. Louis area after this site.

 

Here's hoping this was new equipment for me to take advantage of, being so close to the tower.

 

(Pics of the new panels here)

Those look like those Samsung RRUs.

[S4GRU]

Those look like those Samsung RRUs.

 

They do, huh.  He is going to try to take some zoomed in photos for us when he gets a chance.

Robert

[sbolen]

They do, huh. He is going to try to take some zoomed in photos for us when he gets a chance.

Robert

I'll be able to use my 300mm zoom tomorrow morning on the way to work. Hopefully it won't be raining again and we'll have some decent light.

 

Ah, well - there's always photoshop.

[Thomas L.]

This may not be the right place, but I was wondering what the synergies are that Sprint's TD-LTE will offer to Softbank. I know they'll share the 2600 band of TD-LTE service, but essentially all the other bands and technologies are different. Is the synergy just in base stations or...?

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

 

[digiblur]

I'll be able to use my 300mm zoom tomorrow morning on the way to work. Hopefully it won't be raining again and we'll have some decent light.

 

Ah, well - there's always photoshop.

 

It looks like they didn't hook up two of the RF ports on the RRU.  They hooked them up to a smaller looking RRU that looks temporarily mounted.  Hard to tell for sure.  I also noticed one sector has yellow ribbon'd cables while the other has blue.  It's usually used to mark which cable is what for the installers.   Even though it will be a cold day in hell before my area gets any of these I will be eagerly awaiting the new pics tomorrow.  If you need a server to host a nice big full res picture let me know.

 

I know Macinjosh found some Samsung RRU's that did Wimax and LTE so these are probably it:

http://s4gru.com/index.php?/topic/3083-its-a-samsung-rrh-for-wimaxtd-lte-running-thru-the-fcc/

[sbolen]

It looks like they didn't hook up two of the RF ports on the RRU. They hooked them up to a smaller looking RRU that looks temporarily mounted. Hard to tell for sure. I also noticed one sector has yellow ribbon'd cables while the other has blue. It's usually used to mark which cable is what for the installers. Even though it will be a cold day in hell before my area gets any of these I will be eagerly awaiting the new pics tomorrow. If you need a server to host a nice big full res picture let me know.

 

I know Macinjosh found some Samsung RRU's that did Wimax and LTE so these are probably it:

http://s4gru.com/index.php?/topic/3083-its-a-samsung-rrh-for-wimaxtd-lte-running-thru-the-fcc/

I've got more servers than I know what to do with, but thanks for the offer. :-D

 

I'll probably drop these on Flickr so I can keep them Geotagged (and super res).

 

Weather permitting, the shots will be up around 9am Central.

[ericdabbs]

Wow so let me get this straight. We went from 2600 only being in the top markets on clear sites. To all clear sites. To all clear sites + all sprint sites. To all clear + all sprint + additional infill sites. Far cry from what we thought. Wow that's alot, infill almost seems like overkill. Which isn't a bad thing for consumers. But you would think 1900 and 800 lte would be plenty in places where 40k 2600 sites wouldn't reach. This is gonna be one bad ass network. Just hope it's financially viable. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

I am kinda shocked as well.  I have been advocated for expanding the TD-LTE footprint to the top 100 markets which is beyond their Wimax footprint but this news about expanding TD-LTE to all Sprint Network Vision sites and Clearwire sites is pretty astounding to me if they can pull this off.  I still think its going to take another 2-2.5 years before we see all of this being realized but it sure good to know that Sprint is serious about making 2.5 GHz spectrum as an integral part of the Sprint network.

[S4GRU]

I am kinda shocked as well.  I have been advocated for expanding the TD-LTE footprint to the top 100 markets which is beyond their Wimax footprint but this news about expanding TD-LTE to all Sprint Network Vision sites and Clearwire sites is pretty astounding to me if they can pull this off.  I still think its going to take another 2-2.5 years before we see all of this being realized but it sure good to know that Sprint is serious about making 2.5 GHz spectrum as an integral part of the Sprint network.

 

Once NV is done nationwide, adding overlays like TD-LTE nationwide is much, much faster.  It will happen as fast as Tmo LTE has been deployed.  So adding TD-LTE to existing NV sites should go relatively quickly.  Not as fast as LTE 800, but pretty darn quick.

 

Robert

[WiWavelength]

Once NV is done nationwide, adding overlays like TD-LTE nationwide is much, much faster.  It will happen as fast as Tmo LTE has been deployed.  So adding TD-LTE to existing NV sites should go relatively quickly.  Not as fast as LTE 800, but pretty darn quick.

 

So let it be known that we shall call it LTE TDD PDQ.

 

 

AJ

[Rasta Cheesehead]

I don't understand why there is as much focus on 2500 by media and even Sprint, 800 not even mentioned.  Its 800Mhz that will turn Sprint around by significantly improving coverage and building penetration.  2500 is good in long term for capacity as needed but its 800 that is very very important in the next year.  

 

 

Is surprising 800 is rarely talked about by even Sprint.  Sprint badly needs it to compete with ATT/VZW, this is their key item over the next year.  2500 will add capacity and maybe more performance if enough backhaul but that is really more of a marketing/bragging rights thing in short term as smartphone apps don't need more than a few Mbps today.  Latency matter more to smartphone apps after a few Mbps.  At least with the 2500 capacity is not an issue but it's 800 that will bring customers back.  

 

 

on the call about 800:

 

question asked by wells fargo's Jennifer Fritzsche address 800 and coverage expansion, question was to the effect will Sprint use  800 MHZ to expand coverage beyond 3G footprint in markets in currently does not have service ….

Elfman response:

Started to use voice and 3G and added capacity with 800, will start in late 3^rd quarter to intro 800 LTE in market. Expand coverage: says  will expand coverage in area where using only one roaming partner(i take that to mean Verizon and on top of Son’s comments that he will match VZW coverage/LTE in 2 years) and where he sees opportunity. for other areas says will continue to use small rural carriers. 

Edited July 31, 2013 by Rasta Cheesehead

[centermedic]

Wow so let me get this straight. We went from 2600 only being in the top markets on clear sites. To all clear sites. To all clear sites + all sprint sites. To all clear + all sprint + additional infill sites. Far cry from what we thought. Wow that's alot, infill almost seems like overkill. Which isn't a bad thing for consumers. But you would think 1900 and 800 lte would be plenty in places where 40k 2600 sites wouldn't reach. This is gonna be one bad ass network. Just hope it's financially viable. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Eh. I am not particularly overjoyed with this development. I am not sure how deploying 2500 where it is not needed is enhancing the customer experience. It does however increase costs. I would rather see a targeted strategic use of 2500 similar to what was originally planned.

[Rasta Cheesehead]

Eh. I am not particularly overjoyed with this development. I am not sure how deploying 2500 where it is not needed is enhancing the customer experience. It does however increase costs. I would rather see a targeted strategic use of 2500 similar to what was originally planned.

 

 

with the amount of money being poured into 2500 development and with the requirement that all 2014 devices will support it , i think 2500 will become the main LTE band for Sprint and 1900 and 800 will be fallback when 2500 signal cannot reach customer. 

[centermedic]

with the amount of money being poured into 2500 development and with the requirement that all 2014 devices will support it , i think 2500 will become the main LTE band for Sprint and 1900 and 800 will be fallback when 2500 signal cannot reach customer. 

This is just my opinion but I really don't believe that every device that Sprint has will eventually be tri band. I expect to see it on the high level and perhaps some of the mid level devices. Additionally, you don't have to have a triband device to passivley benefit from 800 and 2500(offloading).

[chamb]

with the amount of money being poured into 2500 development and with the requirement that all 2014 devices will support it , i think 2500 will become the main LTE band for Sprint and 1900 and 800 will be fallback when 2500 signal cannot reach customer. 

You may be correct on this and it may be the exact best way to do things.  As long as they can pull off a smooth hand-off to 1900 or 800 without upsetting the data stream, we may really have something great. I question if they can make it work when driving at 75 MPH on the interstates since constant handing off would be required.

[S4GRU]

Eh. I am not particularly overjoyed with this development. I am not sure how deploying 2500 where it is not needed is enhancing the customer experience. It does however increase costs. I would rather see a targeted strategic use of 2500 similar to what was originally planned.

 

It will provide ample capacity.  It will also provide superior speeds over the rest of the Sprint LTE network.  It will also provide equal or superior speeds to all competitors.  And if a TD-LTE carrier becomes overburdened, adding additional LTE capacity will be a snap with just an additional carrier card needing to be added.  It's not wasted money, but it is investing more money and capacity into the network than Sprint has ever done before.

 

And now it allows all those international travelers who may only have one U.S. LTE band on their phone to have a somewhat cohesive nationwide network.  If you can use TD-LTE 2600 everywhere, and only use LTE 1900 and 800 to fall back on, then that is a very good thing.  This is a 180 degree turn about from what the previous Sprint would ever have done.  This decision is courtesy directly from our new Japanese Overlords.  It's about time the worst decisions the company makes are pro-network experience!!!

 

The Japanese are not the type to think in the present, or near future.  They look much farther out than we tend to do.  It's a refreshing change, even if slightly uncomfortable to what we are used to.

 

Robert