Network Vision/LTE - Charlotte Market

[surma884]

Any updates on 800mhz in CLT?

[anthony.spina97]

Any updates on 800mhz in CLT?

Well, CDMA 800 is all over the place, and LTE 800 has been steadily showing up. LTE 800, to my knowledge, hasn't been tuned correctly yet, and I believe that is because we don't have enough towers with Band 41 LTE turned on yet, so LTE 800 is just being used as a capacity band for now, instead of for coverage.

 

That's about all I've got on 800 in Charlotte so far.

 

-Anthony

[caspar347]

Well, CDMA 800 is all over the place, and LTE 800 has been steadily showing up. LTE 800, to my knowledge, hasn't been tuned correctly yet, and I believe that is because we don't have enough towers with Band 41 LTE turned on yet, so LTE 800 is just being used as a capacity band for now, instead of for coverage.

 

That's about all I've got on 800 in Charlotte so far.

 

-Anthony

 

I couldn't sum it up any better myself. We really need 800 optimization badly.

[bill875]

We could use it up here in the Hickory area.  We don't need it for capacity so much, but even B41 does not work very far from the tower sites.  It seems like they haven't gone full power on that either.

[djw39]

That's interesting and rather optimistic in a way. I still am encountering plenty of dead spots in the providence/Fairview/sardis areas, where the phone will drop to 3G and data will stall completely. But where I assumed it was just inadequate tower spacing, you guys think it can be solved by re-tuning? That would be swell

 

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk

[anthony.spina97]

That's interesting and rather optimistic in a way. I still am encountering plenty of dead spots in the providence/Fairview/sardis areas, where the phone will drop to 3G and data will stall completely. But where I assumed it was just inadequate tower spacing, you guys think it can be solved by re-tuning? That would be swell

 

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk

We can most definitely use more macro sites in our area. But, theoretically, properly tuned LTE 800 SHOULD be able to match EVDO 1900 coverage, and in some cases, go slightly further. But I should not go from a -105 band 26 signal and have it degrade to -117 and the drop to a -85 EVDO signal from the same tower. That is not how it is supposed to work. That is something that should be able to be fixed by optimization (tuning).

 

-Anthony

[caspar347]

That's interesting and rather optimistic in a way. I still am encountering plenty of dead spots in the providence/Fairview/sardis areas, where the phone will drop to 3G and data will stall completely. But where I assumed it was just inadequate tower spacing, you guys think it can be solved by re-tuning? That would be swell

 

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk

 

 

We can most definitely use more macro sites in our area. But, theoretically, properly tuned LTE 800 SHOULD be able to match EVDO 1900 coverage, and in some cases, go slightly further. But I should not go from a -105 band 26 signal and have it degrade to -117 and the drop to a -85 EVDO signal from the same tower. That is not how it is supposed to work. That is something that should be able to be fixed by optimization (tuning).

 

-Anthony

^^^THIS. As someone who lives in the areas in question, I feel your pain. But it's exactly as Anthony says. If you stare at the neighbor cells in Signalcheck, you'll notice the duplicate PCIs (one is B25 and one is B26) are always within 2-3dBm of each other. Sometimes the B26 PCI is weaker than the B25 one. The B26 PCI is supposed to be 5-10dBm stronger.

 

I assume they keep it this way to avoid overloading B26, but now that we've got all of these magical live 8T8Rs they should have enough extra capacity to turn up B26 power levels. I will say the Fairview area could use a new macro (plus it's got a problem site still, along with Providence; my home site is a problem site) and I really hope all of that is fixed with NGN. But they should turn up B26 now.

[S4GRU]

On a three sector B26 site, the optimization of each sector will be different. It all will depend on the distance to other B26 sites in the direction each sector is aimed.

 

If you have one sector that has no nearby B26 site in range, they can have little down tilt and high power. Cranking that thing out as far as it can go. If one of the sectors has a site five miles out, then the signal can't overlap the other one too much, so they increase down tilt and/or lower the transmit power.

 

On the third sector, let's say there is another B26 site three miles away. That means the overlap begins at 1.5 miles. We know B26 propogates really well. Much further than 1.5 miles. So, it really needs to be adjusted down power and with tilt.

 

And if the site is surrounded by B26 sites in each direction, three miles away or less, they have to be really careful. Lots of chances of interference issues. And then get into super dense urban environments. Whoa. Noe you really have to watch the power.

 

So there will be lots of sites and lots of sectors where B26 and B25 will have similar strengths (especially outdoors and good signal areas) even after optimization. But even when broadcast at the same signal level, B26 will still go farther indoors. If both are -95dBm on your front porch, you walk inside the B25 is more likely to get blocked by your walls and the B26 may come in at -110dBm.

 

So be careful. Do not ascribe every issue you ever encounter where B25 and B26 have similar strengths to having an unoptimized site. Every sector is different. Every one.

 

And on AT&T I see similar strengths between B4 (AWS) and B17 (700) all the time. Typically, B17 is only way stronger on rural sites pointed away from suburban/urban areas.

 

Using Tapatalk on BlackBerry Z30

[caspar347]

On a three sector B26 site, the optimization of each sector will be different. It all will depend on the distance to other B26 sites in the direction each sector is aimed.

 

If you have one sector that has no nearby B26 site in range, they can have little down tilt and high power. Cranking that thing out as far as it can go. If one of the sectors has a site five miles out, then the signal can't overlap the other one too much, so they increase down tilt and/or lower the transmit power.

 

On the third sector, let's say there is another B26 site three miles away. That means the overlap begins at 1.5 miles. We know B26 propogates really well. Much further than 1.5 miles. So, it really needs to be adjusted down power and with tilt.

 

And if the site is surrounded by B26 sites in each direction, three miles away or less, they have to be really careful. Lots of chances of interference issues. And then get into super dense urban environments. Whoa.

 

So there will be lots of sites and lots of sectors where B26 and B25 will have similar strengths (especially outdoors and good signal areas) even after optimization. But even when broadcast at the same signal level, B26 will still go farther indoors. If both are -90dBm on your front porch, you walk inside the B25 is more likely to get blocked by your walls and the B26 may come in at -110dBm.

 

So be careful. Do not ascribe every issue you ever encounter where B25 and B26 have similar strengths to having an unoptimized site. Every sector is different. Every one.

 

And on AT&T I see similar strengths between B4 (AWS) and B17 (700} all the time. Typically, B17 is only way stronger on rural sites pointed away from suburban/urban areas.

 

Using Tapatalk on BlackBerry Z30

Our main issue is that properly programmed "overlap/handoff zones" don't really exist here except for on a handful of sectors. The areas in question are suburbs with cell density a bit on the sparse side. There are wayyy too many cases where if a line is drawn between two adjacent sites, the middle quarter to half mile of the line is a straight-up LTE dead zone. But 1x is always at -95dBm RSSI or better and EVDO is usually somewhere around -90dBm. 

[S4GRU]

Our main issue is that properly programmed "overlap/handoff zones" don't really exist here except for on a handful of sectors. The areas in question are suburbs with cell density a bit on the sparse side. There are wayyy too many cases where if a line is drawn between two adjacent sites, the middle quarter to half mile of the line is a straight-up LTE dead zone. But 1x is always at -95dBm RSSI or better and EVDO is usually somewhere around -90dBm.

I wasn't speaking to your issues. Just wanted to explain that while observing the network, similar strengths between B25/B26 in itself is not reason to assume that optimization has not occurred. It could be, and often is, but not necessarily.

 

It is something I'm probably going to keep posting when I see people reference similar B25/26 strengths and optimization. There are many markets that have been optimized significantly (especially in urban/suburban areas) and people assume they have not merely because they see similar strengths. Even though it seems to not be the case in your area, I'd hate for someone to blindly ascribe it to theirs.

 

Using Tapatalk on BlackBerry Z30

[caspar347]

I wasn't speaking to your issues. Just wanted to explain that while observing the network, similar strengths between B25/B26 in itself is not reason to assume that optimization has not occurred. It could be, and often is, but not necessarily.

 

It is something I'm probably going to keep posting when I see people reference similar B25/26 strengths and optimization. There are many markets that have been optimized significantly (especially in urban/suburban areas) and people assume they have not merely because they see similar strengths. Even though it seems to not be the case in your area, I'd hate for someone to blindly ascribe it to theirs.

 

Using Tapatalk on BlackBerry Z30

Ahh. I see. It would be dangerous to apply my statements to the majority of Sprint urban markets as most of them are more cell-dense than we are.

 

And hopefully following NGN we will be as well.

[Brandonlmbrt]

I live in the Charlotte area to and I have a question. Why is it that even when I'm in an LTE area, I generally have to toggle airplane mode? Whenever I do toggle it and get LTE, I generally hold onto it but I think it's odd if I going to building and then it switches to 3G which I understand because of the spectrum, I come out I still have to toggle airplane mode. Other carriers that I've had in the past generally just grab the LTE signal and hold onto it. For whatever reason I'm just curious as to why Sprint is different. I think back in 2012 when network vision started a representative told me that it was just growing pains and fine-tuning of the network, that should not be more or less settled at this point? Also, does anyone know when or if Sprint will get voice over LTE for iPhone?

[nexgencpu]

I live in the Charlotte area to and I have a question. Why is it that even when I'm in an LTE area, I generally have to toggle airplane mode? Whenever I do toggle it and get LTE, I generally hold onto it but I think it's odd if I going to building and then it switches to 3G which I understand because of the spectrum, I come out I still have to toggle airplane mode. Other carriers that I've had in the past generally just grab the LTE signal and hold onto it. For whatever reason I'm just curious as to why Sprint is different. I think back in 2012 when network vision started a representative told me that it was just growing pains and fine-tuning of the network, that should not be more or less settled at this point? Also, does anyone know when or if Sprint will get voice over LTE for iPhone?

Its not about spectrum, Sprint has three bands available in NC. If your profile is correct (iphone 5) You do not have access to all of Sprints bands (you need at least an iphone 6)

 

Also, having a device that has a stronger radio makes a huge difference how it performs.

 

Bottom line, a newer device will give you substantially better LTE performance.

[Brandonlmbrt]

I have an iPhone 6s. I need to update that info.

[nexgencpu]

I have an iPhone 6s. I need to update that info.

Tower spacing also makes a big difference as well. You might simply be too far from the tower. Post an engineering screen when your are about to lose LTE so we can see what your connecting too.

 

I also have heard iphone users having connectivity issues with the latest carrier update, so that also could be part of the issue.

 

Check out this thread/Post

 

http://s4gru.com/index.php?/topic/7164-iphone-6s6s-plus-user-thread/page-5&do=findComment&comment=446990

[anthony.spina97]

A big problem here in Charlotte is we don't have high enough density of macro sites. That's one big problem for why drops to 3G are so frequent here. Another thing is Band 26 in our area isn't properly tuned yet either, which is even worse when coupled with out site density problem.

 

-Anthony

[bill875]

It will be great if through NGN, Sprint adds hundreds of Macro sites all over North Carolina.  Just about every metro area has grown, especially Charlotte, yet Sprint has NOT kept up while AT&T and Verizon have.  Heck, even T-Mobile had done a decent job up here in the Hickory Metro area by densifying and adding macro sites in more rural areas.  It's sad because many tower sites are at capacity now that T-Mobile has Co-located since we have Carolina West Wireless here in addition to Sprint, Vz, AT&T and T-MO.

 

Sprint hasn't done a good enough job to cover I-40, or HWY 16 and 321, both of which see a huge amount of traffic from Charlotte to I-40.  I certainly hope those two routes are in the NGN plan.  We could also use additional tower sites from I-40 north on HWY 16 to North Wilkesboro.  Nextel used to have a couple of tower sites up that way that Sprint never converted.

[S4GRU]

I live in the Charlotte area to and I have a question. Why is it that even when I'm in an LTE area, I generally have to toggle airplane mode? Whenever I do toggle it and get LTE, I generally hold onto it but I think it's odd if I going to building and then it switches to 3G which I understand because of the spectrum, I come out I still have to toggle airplane mode. Other carriers that I've had in the past generally just grab the LTE signal and hold onto it. For whatever reason I'm just curious as to why Sprint is different. I think back in 2012 when network vision started a representative told me that it was just growing pains and fine-tuning of the network, that should not be more or less settled at this point? Also, does anyone know when or if Sprint will get voice over LTE for iPhone?

I have the same problem with LTE on AT&T in South Dakota. It's worse on some devices than others. Some are content not scanning and looking for LTE when you would like them to.

 

And to me, it seems worse in Alcatel Lucent markets. Which both Sprint/Carolinas and AT&T/Dakotas both are.

 

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[llm5505]

I live in the Charlotte area to and I have a question. Why is it that even when I'm in an LTE area, I generally have to toggle airplane mode? Whenever I do toggle it and get LTE, I generally hold onto it but I think it's odd if I going to building and then it switches to 3G which I understand because of the spectrum, I come out I still have to toggle airplane mode. Other carriers that I've had in the past generally just grab the LTE signal and hold onto it. For whatever reason I'm just curious as to why Sprint is different. I think back in 2012 when network vision started a representative told me that it was just growing pains and fine-tuning of the network, that should not be more or less settled at this point? Also, does anyone know when or if Sprint will get voice over LTE for iPhone?

I have this same thing in the Charlotte area and am using an LG G3. Was sitting in a parking lot this morning not far from a tower on 3G, cycled airplane mode and had full bars LTE. I did not check the details at the time, it's pretty much the norm.

 

 

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[smooth25]

Sprint didn't fair too well in latest rootmetrics score in Charlotte.

 

http://www.rootmetrics.com/us/rsr/charlotte-nc/2015/2H

 

 

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[bill875]

How embarrassing.   This report should be all it takes for Marcelo to put Charlotte at or near the top of the NGN priority list.

[Camcroz]

Sprint didn't fair too well in latest rootmetrics score in Charlotte.

 

http://www.rootmetrics.com/us/rsr/charlotte-nc/2015/2H

 

 

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Let's hope not. Im gonna be there the whole weekend. I guess ill get to investigate whether it's better or worse than rootmetrics said

 

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[caspar347]

Sprint didn't fair too well in latest rootmetrics score in Charlotte.

 

http://www.rootmetrics.com/us/rsr/charlotte-nc/2015/2H

 

 

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk

 

Cool, I guess. My predictions were almost spot-on. I just assumed Sprint would fare a little better in other parts of the city closer to the center. I guess not, or at least not enough to offset their performance in the suburbs. Verizon's densification efforts appear to be paying off, while T-Mobile's lack of spectrum (especially low-band) is hurting them. Sprint's lack of network activity is showing too, but I was expecting their speed index to be a lot higher. Maybe the testers were just stuck on 3G the whole time? That's still a huge issue here. In my experience generally if you're more than half a mile away from a site you drop to 3G if you put your phone in your pocket. That isn't nearly as much of an issue in other markets I've visited. They really need to densify so they can free up enough capacity on B25 and 26 to turn up the power levels.

 

How embarrassing.   This report should be all it takes for Marcelo to put Charlotte at or near the top of the NGN priority list.

 

I really hope so. They could dominate this market speed-wise if they could just match the others on density enough to actually blanket the city with LTE.

[WiWavelength]

How embarrassing.   This report should be all it takes for Marcelo to put Charlotte at or near the top of the NGN priority list.

 

You have a penchant for negative overreaction, and that is you embarrassing yourself.  The 2H 2015 RootMetrics results are not great, but they are hardly embarrassing.  If Sprint had scored 20 points below the others -- like T-Mobile does in Omaha -- that would be embarrassing.

 

In the end, face the facts.  Sprint is going to be last in some markets.  Charlotte, you need to get over yourself.  Charlotte is the most important market to you.  But it is not even close to the most important market to Sprint.

 

AJ

[S4GRU]

I won't take AJ's hard line, but somewhere in the middle. Sprint is far from number one in Charlotte, as illustrated in the report. However, NGN is completely necessary in a market like Charlotte to make Sprint more competitive. That much is clear. It is surprising that Sprint is not yet farther along in this market. But further improvements are coming.

 

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