Network Vision/LTE - New York City Market

[Paynefanbro]

21 minutes ago, thisischuck01 said:

Well, this is interesting - if I bandlock to n41 SA, my S21U loses connection completely. But if I bandlock to n71 SA and n41 SA, my S21U is able to get a n71+n41 connection. Williamsburg area.

So it seems like they weren't lying about n71 + n41 being commercially available. The question now is what conditions will trigger your device to use that combo automatically as opposed to manually forcing it? Maybe it happens more often than we think and we don't notice the difference.

[wispiANt]

1 hour ago, Paynefanbro said:

So it seems like they weren't lying about n71 + n41 being commercially available. The question now is what conditions will trigger your device to use that combo automatically as opposed to manually forcing it? Maybe it happens more often than we think and we don't notice the difference.

Seems similar to how n71 SA has acted in the past - it won't kick in unless you have a poor/nonexistent B2/B66/B41 signal. 

[T-MoblieUser207]

On 12/4/2021 at 2:08 PM, thisischuck01 said:

Yeah, that was my guess. I'm expecting to see a lot of sector azimuth shifts as T-Mobile integrates all these new macro sites into their network.

Same expectations I have, but this one isn't an azimuth change at all, just a location shift on the tower. I was expecting them to move into the middle of Sprint's location if they were changing locations, like they have done on the conversion sites, especially since Sprint's equipment is dormant now.

On 12/4/2021 at 2:08 PM, thisischuck01 said:

I should really get a map going of all these keep sites...

Funny enough, I'm currently building it. Still a work in progress, and gig+ towers have also been added on a separate layer since they are still rare to find. I have a list of eNBs, including the ones mentioned in this thread. Currently adding the keep sites, if I missed any gig+ towers let me know.

On 12/3/2021 at 5:06 PM, T-MoblieUser207 said:

eNB 5900 is the one that has been fully converted. I'm not sure what happened with the Cellmapper data here, but I think other towers were picked up instead, as nothing has updated the way I expected it to, plus its height means I was probably wasn't connected to it when I thought I was. I couldn't flip through band locking, nor was the time of the day helpful for taking a spin around it.

So I did flip through band locking as the data updated, I forgot I did that. Site has been located, and its the 2 eNB setup; 1 for B41, another for everything else. T-Mobile is moving too fast for me to keep up over here, as I think eNB 5890 has been converted, and if it is, it would be number 5. Might come close to double digits before 2022.

 

Verizon eNB 81005 has the C-band panel for a few weeks now, finally got a pic of it.

[Paynefanbro]

7 hours ago, T-MoblieUser207 said:

Funny enough, I'm currently building it. Still a work in progress, and gig+ towers have also been added on a separate layer since they are still rare to find. I have a list of eNBs, including the ones mentioned in this thread. Currently adding the keep sites, if I missed any gig+ towers let me know.

Just a heads up that I confirmed the location of Sprint eNB 6867 for you so it's no longer unknown.

Google Maps: https://goo.gl/maps/FqDxyF9MUhzPeTaUA
Cellmapper: https://bit.ly/3dxNFzs

[T-MoblieUser207]

7 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

Just a heads up that I confirmed the location of Sprint eNB 6867 for you so it's no longer unknown.

Google Maps: https://goo.gl/maps/FqDxyF9MUhzPeTaUA
Cellmapper: https://bit.ly/3dxNFzs

Site has been moved and data modified, thanks!

[wispiANt]

eNB 6888 (40.708851728269764,-73.94064353351577) is also a keep site!

[Paynefanbro]

I've got two more keep sites for you!

1. eNB 7043 (Not mapped on Cellmapper): 40.68574976945437, -73.99057078745336
2. eNB Unknown: 40.67756854807986, -73.99619992833267

[T-MoblieUser207]

Added all 3 sites! I also added 5 sites from my trip yesterday; 2 confirmed (5820, 6898), 3 have unknown locations (6786, 5782, and 6877). 34 sites (24 confirmed, 4 converted, 6 unknown) found so far!

[wispiANt]

Found a permit for a new Dish install in Manhattan - this is the first one I've seen. 

Job #M00510272, at 600 WEST 161 STREET (BIN# 1063351). You can search for it here.

Edit: And one more - Job #M00613083, at 200 HAVEN AVENUE (BIN# 1063431).

[T-MoblieUser207]

On 12/7/2021 at 5:40 PM, T-MoblieUser207 said:

I think eNB 5890 has been converted, and if it is, it would be number 5.

#5 is confirmed! I think a valid assumption is there are more converted sites live than we know of. Google maps caught the site mid conversion in July.

eNBs 894592 and 894595 are probably another convert site too, but I don't have any plans to head over to the area to see what is going on anytime soon.

I took a trip to Manhattan during the weekend, and I found a few more gig+ sites, plus confirmed eNB 45463 as one. Kinda hard to tell what sites have/don't have >1G with the A71 since it doesn't take advantage of all the spectrum most macros have, but it's still nice to see 1.1 Gbps with only B66+n41. Most of them were in the East Village, I'll add them to the map over the next few days.
 

[wispiANt]

Sprint conversion at 277 Broadway.

Edit: And another one at 26-45 9th St.

[wispiANt]

On 12/7/2021 at 11:20 AM, thisischuck01 said:

Well, this is interesting - if I bandlock to n41 SA, my S21U loses connection completely. But if I bandlock to n71 SA and n41 SA, my S21U is able to get a n71+n41 connection. Williamsburg area.

 

Edit: Took a walk around the block, all the sites (4+) I connected to are broadcasting like this.

Not sure when this was turned off, but it has been (at least in my neighborhood). All this messing around with n41 could certainly explain all the recent complaints about it in the subreddit.

[T-MoblieUser207]

5 hours ago, thisischuck01 said:

Not sure when this was turned off, but it has been (at least in my neighborhood). All this messing around with n41 could certainly explain all the recent complaints about it in the subreddit.

Earlier this year when the A71 had SA n41 enabled, that is exactly how it was. It was like playing a game with it; some areas had it, then it turned off, and turned on somewhere else, and then turned off again. Must be a lot of testing going on with the way n41 SA and now NR CA shows up and disappears so fast.

[Paynefanbro]

eNB 7096 on Randalls Island is broadcasting the keep PLMN. T-Mobile doesn't currently have a site on the island.

I don't think there are many people who live there but it'll be a boost in coverage for those that do and when there are events at Icahn Stadium.

Location: 40.78708172259319, -73.92779788741755

[wispiANt]

19 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

eNB 7096 on Randalls Island is broadcasting the keep PLMN. T-Mobile doesn't currently have a site on the island.

I don't think there are many people who live there but it'll be a boost in coverage for those that do and when there are events at Icahn Stadium.

Location: 40.78708172259319, -73.92779788741755

I've been hoping T-Mobile would jump on this site for YEARS! Every other provider is on it and T-Mobile coverage/speeds have historically been terrible along that stretch of road. Super happy to see this.

[AirlineFlyer]

Verizon site 81345 by Prospect Park on Ocean Ave at Lincoln Road appears to have C-band ready to go. Looks to have shrouded mmWave but I was unable to find that signal.

 

There’s also a Verizon site with mmWave right by Barclays Center on Pacific Street that isn’t currently on cellmapper. Wish I could map with iOS. 

Edited December 19, 2021 by AirlineFlyer

[T-MoblieUser207]

T-Mobile is moving with conversions. Sprint eNBs 73932 and 6917 both have T-Mobile gear up, 73932 with the 3 panel setup, 2 slim RFS+6449, with 6917 I'm not sure what the setup is, just spotted the slim RFS panel while driving. I'll get pics for them soon, until then they are moved to "conversion in progress" on the map.

Sprint eNB 6898 had its sectors adjusted, so eNBs 253849 and 253848 are closer together compared to the way I located them on Cellmapper/streetview shows them. Here is a pic facing north along Schenectady Avenue taken recently. I expect conversion for this one to happen soon.


In Gowanus/Greenwood Heights, the Sprint keeps eNBs 253785 and 899327 have been updated with their B25/26 eNBs, 5862 and 6832 respectively, both on Cellmapper and on the Google map. Looks like 899327 improves coverage at Lowes, while 253785 does the same for Home Depot. I picked up B41 depending on where I was inside, fully expect B2/66 to reach. I think eNB 6856 is the Sprint eNB for the unknown site at Smith and 5th Streets, but more data is required IMO. I mapped the eNBs under the 312-250 PLMN on Cellmapper for some reason, and I still have no idea what triggers Cellmapper to map under 312-250 instead of 310-120.

Within the Home Depot, the A71 wanted to put me back on T-Mobile signal, even though T-Mobile signal is miserable inside (for now). While the device was trying to find T-Mobile signal, I think it found another convert site. The data that is already up on Cellmapper for the eNB leads me to believe its the former Sprint site on top of the building on the east side of 4th Avenue between 23rd and 24th Streets. Its been added to the google map, as I wouldn't be surprised if it is.

[T-MoblieUser207]

Finally added all the gig+ towers I found in the East Village, plus one in East Flatbush: eNB 41362. I was unable to take a site pic, but its the same setup that is seen in August 2021 streetview; no LAA or mmWave, just 2/12/41/66/71. I was surprised I passed 800 since I'm de-prioritized, plus a few months ago n41 speeds were awful on this tower.

[Paynefanbro]

On 12/22/2021 at 7:32 PM, T-MoblieUser207 said:

plus one in East Flatbush: eNB 41362.

Backhaul must've been upgraded on that site within the past few weeks because speeds in that area were lower on average compared to most other areas as recently as Thanksgiving. Whenever I connected to that site and nearby sites, I'd struggle to get over 300Mbps. My guess is that many of the sites were provisioned with 500Mbps or so at the time.

Sidenote: I'm occasionally over there near Snyder & Utica at the aptly named "China Restaurant" because they make these soy sauce wings which are probably some of the best in the city. Around any holiday you'll see people leaving with pans of 50 soy sauce wings. You guys should try it sometime!

[T-MoblieUser207]

On 12/21/2021 at 5:00 PM, T-MoblieUser207 said:

Sprint eNBs 73932 and 6917 both have T-Mobile gear up, 73932 with the 3 panel setup, 2 slim RFS+6449, with 6917 I'm not sure what the setup is

Both are converted! Sprint eNBs 73932 and 6917 are now T-Mobile eNBs 894580 and 874550 respectively. Did my usual walk around the site while band locking to map the bands for them both. Mapping 874550 was easy, even though the small cell is still live, but something is very strange with 894580, as I was kicked over to other towers/nearby small cells when I band locked 2/66.

894580 pics. I thought it was 2 slim RFS panels, but it's not. I think it is 2 wide RFS panels, but it doesn't make sense to put up 2, so I took multiple photos.

 

874550 pics. This one is definitely the setup I recognize, 2 slim RFS + 6449.

 

I see Sprint eNB 5882 has been moved, its coverage spread had me second guessing if I located it right. That means eNB 6854 has been decom'd, with the panels still up as of yesterday. Sprint eNB 5882 also has Verizon and AT&T on that rooftop too?

[Paynefanbro]

Was confirming some sites in Cellmapper and found a site in Carteret, NJ (eNB 52217) where T-Mobile decommissioned their 2/66 flagpole site and moved to a nearby monopole that I think was Verizon's. Looks like they collocated on the site last year but the flagpole site was up and broadcasting until this summer when it was finally decommissioned and demolished.

I'm happy to see that T-Mobile is ditching a lot of these flagpoles during this round of upgrades.

Before:

 

After:

 

Here's a better look at the site. I'm kinda surprised they didn't bother with adding n41.

[AirlineFlyer]

4 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

Was confirming some sites in Cellmapper and found a site in Carteret, NJ (eNB 52217) where T-Mobile decommissioned their 2/66 flagpole site and moved to a nearby monopole that I think was Verizon's. Looks like they collocated on the site last year but the flagpole site was up and broadcasting until this summer when it was finally decommissioned and demolished.

I'm happy to see that T-Mobile is ditching a lot of these flagpoles during this round of upgrades.

Before:

 

After:

 

Here's a better look at the site. I'm kinda surprised they didn't bother with adding n41.

Going to be fun to see how this plays out on Long Island, specifically through Nassau and Valley Stream. T-Mobile has a ton of these flagpole sites that just can’t fit modern antennas and there really aren’t many suitable sites to move to. Wonder where they go from here.

[Paynefanbro]

Found another one in Staten Island. I think this was eNB 56814. It's a flagpole site with Band 2/12/66 that seems to have been removed some time this year since it was still being pinged on Cellmapper as recently as this August. I don't know exactly where they moved it to though. It's likely hidden on the roof of the Hilton Garden Inn next door.

Sept 2019:

Oct 2021:

[Paynefanbro]

On 12/29/2021 at 8:53 PM, AirlineFlyer said:

Going to be fun to see how this plays out on Long Island, specifically through Nassau and Valley Stream. T-Mobile has a ton of these flagpole sites that just can’t fit modern antennas and there really aren’t many suitable sites to move to. Wonder where they go from here.

Hopefully they're able to convince communities that have been resistant to traditional monopoles to allow upgrades similar to this: 

I'm certain that they're going to be getting a ton of pushback not only from T-Mobile but also from Verizon, AT&T, and Dish since antennas are only getting larger. Hiding sites as flagpoles is going to become more difficult and in generally looks even uglier than just having the antennas visible.

For example, this one in Valley Stream:

Another option is to sheath them similar to how it's done throughout the Boston metro area. There are a ton of chimneys and steeples that are hiding antennas. They can be easily augmented to include more antennas but generally take longer to upgrade because of the much longer approval process but at least you won't be limited in terms of what bands you can deploy.

A good example of this is Newton City Hall which is hiding all Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, and Sprint antennas in its steeple. MetroPCS was on it at one point but their antennas were removed in 2014 according to permits.

 

[AirlineFlyer]

20 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

Hopefully they're able to convince communities that have been resistant to traditional monopoles to allow upgrades similar to this: 

I'm certain that they're going to be getting a ton of pushback not only from T-Mobile but also from Verizon, AT&T, and Dish since antennas are only getting larger. Hiding sites as flagpoles is going to become more difficult and in generally looks even uglier than just having the antennas visible.

For example, this one in Valley Stream:

Another option is to sheath them similar to how it's done throughout the Boston metro area. There are a ton of chimneys and steeples that are hiding antennas. They can be easily augmented to include more antennas but generally take longer to upgrade because of the much longer approval process but at least you won't be limited in terms of what bands you can deploy.

A good example of this is Newton City Hall which is hiding all Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, and Sprint antennas in its steeple. MetroPCS was on it at one point but their antennas were removed in 2014 according to permits.

 

It’s funny, that Valley Stream site was the exact one I was thinking of. The top section for T-Mobile hasn’t had the cover over antennas in years. The Lower larger portion, I believe, is a Verizon addition. Some of these also had Metro latched on the exterior. I highly doubt Valley Stream allows a full replacement to monopole since these do sorta blend in nicely, so T-Mobile’s network is always going to struggle here until it can figure out a replacement plan. 

Edited January 2, 2022 by AirlineFlyer