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Network Vision/LTE - New York City Market


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21 minutes ago, Paynefanbro said:

That's pretty wild! Since Sprint roaming is active in that area, I'd expect for your phone to switch over to Sprint as it did for me. They really need to get that site converted ASAP. There's also another Sprint site across the water on top of the Queens-Midtown Tunnel ventilation building in LIC that T-Mobile should really consider converting.

AFAIK you won't switch over to Sprint roaming unless there's a total lock of T-Mobile coverage, right?

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35 minutes ago, AirlineFlyer said:

AFAIK you won't switch over to Sprint roaming unless there's a total lock of T-Mobile coverage, right?

I'm not certain. I've never actually dropped down to EDGE or HSPA+ while up near Box St. Instead, when I dropped out of native T-Mobile LTE coverage my phone roamed onto Sprint LTE immediately. The issue was that if it even gets a hint of native LTE signal again it'll drop the much stronger Sprint signal in favor of their own much weaker network. 

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On 8/2/2021 at 12:18 PM, AirlineFlyer said:

AFAIK you won't switch over to Sprint roaming unless there's a total lock of T-Mobile coverage, right?

Depends on the site setup. If site have been marked as "Keep," you should hand off natively as if it were any other site. If the site is marked as roaming, then yes you'll need to have an extremely weak T-Mobile signal before it will hand off. 

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A while back this T-Mobile site got the full upgrade. It the site covering the NYC T-Mobile Corporate office so it's always getting upgraded. It has LAA and got N260 when T-Mobile originally launched 5G. Later on they added N71.  It also received N41 pretty fast once the merger was official. The first picture is once it received N41 and I think it received new antennas for the other bands at the same time. 

The 2nd and 3rd picture are from today and I noticed the additional antenna above the N41 antennas and I've never seen this setup before. Was hoping someone could explain what they are for. 

oQvxdzk.jpgMM8MuOv.jpg57hObSo.jpg

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On 8/2/2021 at 4:50 PM, Dkoellerwx said:

If the site is marked as roaming, then yes you'll need to have an extremely weak T-Mobile signal before it will hand off. 

Basically -130 or worse LTE signal. Roaming onto Sprint is considered a dead last resort if its not a keep site, even if the Sprint macro has exceptional signal.

The Home Depot and Lowes stores in Gowanus have awful T-Mobile coverage indoors, and the only way my device sees the nearby Sprint sites, and roams on it since its not marked as a keep site, is when I band lock, or disable B12 and 71. Otherwise it hangs onto -115 lowband for dear life, even though it is not usable at all.

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15 hours ago, mirskyc said:

A while back this T-Mobile site got the full upgrade. It the site covering the NYC T-Mobile Corporate office so it's always getting upgraded. It has LAA and got N260 when T-Mobile originally launched 5G. Later on they added N71.  It also received N41 pretty fast once the merger was official. The first picture is once it received N41 and I think it received new antennas for the other bands at the same time. 

The 2nd and 3rd picture are from today and I noticed the additional antenna above the N41 antennas and I've never seen this setup before. Was hoping someone could explain what they are for. 

 

Looks a bit like Ericsson's 6488 Band 48 (CBRS) antenna but I'm not sure. 

If you have Reddit you can try posting in the cellmapper subreddit and usually people there are good at identifying antennas.

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2 hours ago, mirskyc said:

The 2nd and 3rd picture are from today and I noticed the additional antenna above the N41 antennas and I've never seen this setup before. Was hoping someone could explain what they are for. 

CBRS!

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On 8/3/2021 at 6:14 PM, mirskyc said:

A while back this T-Mobile site got the full upgrade. It the site covering the NYC T-Mobile Corporate office so it's always getting upgraded. It has LAA and got N260 when T-Mobile originally launched 5G. Later on they added N71.  It also received N41 pretty fast once the merger was official. The first picture is once it received N41 and I think it received new antennas for the other bands at the same time. 

The 2nd and 3rd picture are from today and I noticed the additional antenna above the N41 antennas and I've never seen this setup before. Was hoping someone could explain what they are for. 

oQvxdzk.jpgMM8MuOv.jpg57hObSo.jpg

Nice spot! Definitely looks like the Ericsson 6488 (B48), as others have said. As far as I can tell, the unit is capable of 3x20MHz B48 LTE carriers at 64x64 mMIMO, but isn't yet certified for n48. If they're replicating what they're doing up in the Bronx, those carriers are likely sectors 81-83, 91-93, and 181-183.

Great to see them going with a high end antenna, I was expecting something more along the lines of the Micro Radio 4408 (similar to their LAA deployments).

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Hopefully it's a sign that more CBRS is going to be deployed in the near future. Those new antennas will perform way better than the current LAA antennas. Best case scenario is T-Mobile follows Verizon's lead and puts it on as many sites as possible instead of doing only Manhattan and targeted high traffic areas in the outer boroughs. 

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I haven't connected to any Band 48 yet. I think the Galaxy S20 Ultra only has B48 LTE not sure about N48 5G.

Can these antennas be used for LAA/Band 46 or maybe the N41 antennas can? I am always connected to 3x20mhz of B46 inside my office which I didn't think had that much range and power to make it inside

I normally connect to

PC B2 20mhz

SC1 B66 20mhz

SC2 B46 20mhz

SC3 B46 20mhz

SC4 B46 20mhz

NR N41 80mhz

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Went to the Home Depot near Red Hook (technically Greenwood Heights) and T-Mobile lost all signal almost immediately as I walked into the store. The good news is that my phone roamed on Sprint perfectly. It's interesting that Sprint's network is still performing well despite how much capacity has been removed from it. I managed to connect to 5MHz Band 26 deep inside the store and closer to the entrance, I was on 20MHz Band 41. My phone never connected to Band 25.

Another interesting thing about this area is that the nearest T-Mobile site is actually much closer to the Home Depot than the nearest Sprint site but I was receiving a stronger signal deep inside the store on Sprint. Knowing T-Mobile, the Sprint site that provides coverage there will likely be classified as redundant and removed despite it being the only reason that I was able to use data in the store. Kinda sucks to think about how many good sites in the city are gonna get the boot.

Band 41:

 5wGNoK7.pngAeMVfxJ.png

 

Band 26: 

KqcJMD7.pngSyJQzUG.png

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27 minutes ago, thisischuck01 said:

Possible n260 deployment? Link.

I just saw that post and was about to post here.

If this means that T-Mobile is modernizing their mmWave sites in the city then this could be huge. That's another 400MHz of spectrum online. Maybe they finally heard our complaints about mmWave being worse than n41 through the city lol.

A side effect of the mmWave deployment is that T-Mobile will be further incentivized to increase backhaul significantly so that they can take advantage of all of that spectrum. That means that n41, n71, and LTE will all perform extremely well on these sites. We're finally gonna have the actual layer cake that T-Mobile parroted to the FCC for so long.

Edit: Mods removed the post since it's a speed test.

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7 minutes ago, Paynefanbro said:

I just saw that post and was about to post here.

If this means that T-Mobile is modernizing their mmWave sites in the city then this could be huge. That's another 400MHz of spectrum online. Maybe they finally heard our complaints about mmWave being worse than n41 through the city lol.

A side effect of the mmWave deployment is that T-Mobile will be further incentivized to increase backhaul significantly so that they can take advantage of all of that spectrum. That means that n41, n71, and LTE will all perform extremely well on these sites. We're finally gonna have the actual layer cake that T-Mobile parroted to the FCC for so long.

Edit: Mods removed the post since it's a speed test.

Messaged the OP, apparently it's a macro site right outside the flagship T-Mobile store in Times Square (46th St & 7th Ave). There's a couple macro sites around there so I'm not quite sure which one. Maybe the site at 1560 Broadway (40.75868, -73.98462)?

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22 hours ago, thisischuck01 said:

Messaged the OP, apparently it's a macro site right outside the flagship T-Mobile store in Times Square (46th St & 7th Ave). There's a couple macro sites around there so I'm not quite sure which one. Maybe the site at 1560 Broadway (40.75868, -73.98462)?

n260 DAS at the corporate T-Mobile Signature Store in Times Square. It was too good to be true!

 

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5 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

n260 DAS at the corporate T-Mobile Signature Store in Times Square. It was too good to be true!

 

I just went to the store to see if I could connect and test the site. Didn't know it was a DAS in the store until I came here to post. I was able to connect and run a speed test. Wasn't able to get faster then ~400Mbps   

 

stj6gS3.jpg

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13 minutes ago, mirskyc said:

I just went to the store to see if I could connect and test the site. Didn't know it was a DAS in the store until I came here to post. I was able to connect and run a speed test. Wasn't able to get faster then ~400Mbps   

That's super interesting that you weren't able to get faster than 400Mbps. At least two people reported those 2Gbps speeds there.

Thanks for the screenshot! It looks like they're actually only running 200MHz of n260 so not even the entire amount that they have in that band. I don't know where exactly you screenshotted this but your signal looks pretty weak at -111dBm. Maybe that contributed to the lower speeds you're seeing.

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1 hour ago, Paynefanbro said:

That's super interesting that you weren't able to get faster than 400Mbps. At least two people reported those 2Gbps speeds there.

Thanks for the screenshot! It looks like they're actually only running 200MHz of n260 so not even the entire amount that they have in that band. I don't know where exactly you screenshotted this but your signal looks pretty weak at -111dBm. Maybe that contributed to the lower speeds you're seeing.

I didnt go into the store so thats why the signal is weak. Didn't know that the signal was coming from inside. Goes to show that MMwave really isn't good at penetrating walls and even glass no matter what verizon claims 

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29 minutes ago, thisischuck01 said:

https://tmo.report/2021/08/t-mobile-is-launching-fiber-optic-home-internet-starting-in-nyc/

Not available at my current or past addresses, but I'm interested.

I'm really interested as well. I'd consider switching if they brought it to Brooklyn and the price is competitive. I'm paying $73 after taxes and fees for gigabit over coax (940/50) from Altice/Optimum. If I could get symmetrical gigabit (940/940) for $75 or less then they'd have my business.

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1 hour ago, Paynefanbro said:

I'm really interested as well. I'd consider switching if they brought it to Brooklyn and the price is competitive. I'm paying $73 after taxes and fees for gigabit over coax (940/50) from Altice/Optimum. If I could get symmetrical gigabit (940/940) for $75 or less then they'd have my business.

Lucky, I pay $74.99 for 200/10 from Spectrum in Astoria Queens. My street doesn’t have Fios and I think RCN is only available across the street.  Spectrum wants 94.99 a month for 400/20. 1Gbps x 35  is 134.99 but I’m not even sure it’s available in my area.

I‘ve been hoping 5G home internet will be available at my address soon. My 5G is always faster then my wifi no matter the time of day. 

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I figure I might as well post this here as it is NYC-specific and the Verizon thread is a bit dead. Haven't yet spotted any Verizon C-Band upgrades in the Williamsburg area (even on their FDC), but I did spot this site upgrade today:

Before:

image.png

After:

image.png

Compared to their typical mmWave antenna shrouds:

image.png

 

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53 minutes ago, thisischuck01 said:

I figure I might as well post this here as it is NYC-specific and the Verizon thread is a bit dead. Haven't yet spotted any Verizon C-Band upgrades in the Williamsburg area (even on their FDC), but I did spot this site upgrade today:

Before:

 

After:

 

Compared to their typical mmWave antenna shrouds:

 

 

Your third photo isn't appearing on my end but are you referring to how the shroud on that site is vented? Separately what is the new antenna that they put there? It looks like it has a lot more ports than the previous two antennas. Are they running Band 2/5/13/66 off of a single antenna?

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1 hour ago, thisischuck01 said:

Have started to see some oDAS nodes (equipped with B2/B66/B46) act as anchor eNBs.

 

Speeds were in the 300Mb/s range, ping typical for n41 NSA.

While T-Mobile is still deploying new small cells I sadly haven't seen any upgrades to existing small cells. For example, the three that correspond to eNB 55177 are as slow as ever, especially the one on Nostrand.

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