Network Vision/LTE - New York City Market

[T-MoblieUser207]

On 10/18/2021 at 10:45 PM, T-MoblieUser207 said:

One of Sprint's sites that I was hoping to be kept is actually being converted!! Location is eNB 6695

If you haven't seen on reddit yet, the site is live, and I took pics of all 3 sectors:

Another T-Mo site, 44136, has work started for upgrades, I didn't hang around long enough to see if n41 is also going up, but I did see the workers up there. One RFS panel was in place for 2 of the sectors though, so I'll check the site again in a few days.

I spotted more Verizon C-band, and this time I wasn't driving so I have pics! eNBs 81068 and 81455 respectively have the panel up.

[wispiANt]

Quote

Here in New York, there's been some criticism among network-watching types that T-Mobile's 80MHz of 5G isn't living up to expectations. I've gotten speeds up to around 600Mbps here in Queens, which falls short of what 80MHz could provide. According to Ookla Speedtest Intelligence, T-Mobile is delivering its fastest speeds around here, mostly in Midtown and downtown Manhattan. Is the problem backhaul?

"Folks are worried that they can't get above 600 or 700Mbps on their devices?" Ray laughs. T-Mobile has already upgraded most major-metro backhaul to 10 gigs per site and it's now working on making deals in suburban and rural areas, he says.

Source. So where are those >1Gb/s speeds, Neville?

[Paynefanbro]

17 minutes ago, thisischuck01 said:

Source. So where are those >1Gb/s speeds, Neville?

I'm hoping that he's referring to the link itself and not the provisioned throughput of the backhaul because there's no way that most sites have 10Gbps of backhaul provisioned and people are consistently topping out at 700Mbps nearly nationwide.I can count on one hand the number of sites where I can get 800Mbps-1.2Gbps.

[wispiANt]

That's what I was thinking, does someone need to tell Neville that upgrading to 10GE equipment and having 10Gb/s provisioned are not the same?

And what a stupid statement, "Folks are worried that they can't get above 600 or 700Mbps on their devices?". You can brag about your spectral advantage all day, Neville, but I think the average customer would prefer 1Gb/s+ with "only" 60MHz of midband over 600-700Mb/s with 100+ MHz of midband.

[transitwatch889]

So I just walked around my neighborhood for the first time in a while and I had a sneaky suspicion. That's been confirmed that they took down the Sprint cell site that was adjacent to the T-Mobile one next building over. Like towers equipment everything gone. So everyone in this neighborhood is on T-Mobile network there is no Sprint equipment at all.

[T-MoblieUser207]

On 11/5/2021 at 1:01 PM, thisischuck01 said:

That's what I was thinking, does someone need to tell Neville that upgrading to 10GE equipment and having 10Gb/s provisioned are not the same?

And what a stupid statement, "Folks are worried that they can't get above 600 or 700Mbps on their devices?". You can brag about your spectral advantage all day, Neville, but I think the average customer would prefer 1Gb/s+ with "only" 60MHz of midband over 600-700Mb/s with 100+ MHz of midband.

He definitely knows the difference, and is being purposefully obscure.

I would guess as more Sprint towers get decommissioned, those 10G backhaul increases start happening to T-Mobile sites, shifting Sprint opex/capex funds to T-Mobile, hence why they want Sprint towers gone asap. Sadly, it would mean 2022 for more areas see those 1Gbps+ n41 speeds.

 

9 hours ago, transitwatch889 said:

So I just walked around my neighborhood for the first time in a while and I had a sneaky suspicion. That's been confirmed that they took down the Sprint cell site that was adjacent to the T-Mobile one next building over. Like towers equipment everything gone. So everyone in this neighborhood is on T-Mobile network there is no Sprint equipment at all.

In addition to towers, I also think some of Sprint's small cells have also been turned off. I have been on B25/26 alot more often lately when mapping Sprint, even in areas where I confirmed their small cells. Definitely not the same network I mapped mid-late 2020. The small cells designs are all the same, I don't know which ones are fiber fed, or macro fed (UE-backhaul). Yes, Sprint used their own macros to provide backhaul to small cells, more info about it in this thread.

eNB 899327 Sprint site in Gowanus is being kept! My inactive T-Mobile SIM seamlessly roamed onto it and showed the 312-250 PLMN. The holes in Sprint's network keep getting larger, and it looks like the conversions/decommissions are happening very often now.

[Paynefanbro]

14 hours ago, transitwatch889 said:

So I just walked around my neighborhood for the first time in a while and I had a sneaky suspicion. That's been confirmed that they took down the Sprint cell site that was adjacent to the T-Mobile one next building over. Like towers equipment everything gone. So everyone in this neighborhood is on T-Mobile network there is no Sprint equipment at all.

I haven't spotted any decommissioned Sprint sites in my immediate area just yet. Most Sprint sites around me are already are collocated with T-Mobile. The few that aren't are pretty redundant Clear sites that are a block away from the nearest T-Mobile site. Freeing up Sprint's spectrum post-shutdown will likely have a bigger impact on my experience than the sites being decommissioned/kept in my area.

 

3 hours ago, T-MoblieUser207 said:

eNB 899327 Sprint site in Gowanus is being kept! My inactive T-Mobile SIM seamlessly roamed onto it and showed the 312-250 PLMN. The holes in Sprint's network keep getting larger, and it looks like the conversions/decommissions are happening very often now.

This is quite the surprise! This is the exact site that I've been pessimistic about T-Mobile keeping because it is pretty close to T-Mobile eNB 40971. I always roam on that Sprint site inside of the Home Depot on Hamilton Ave and it fills in a weaker area of coverage by the Lowe's on 2nd Ave. 

[mirskyc]

My only compliant since being on T-Mobile is the speeds on Transit wireless in the subways. They have yet to rearrange the spectrum. T-Mobile has yet to take over the Sprint spectrum and is only broadcasting 10x10 B2, 20x20 B4 and 5x5 B12. With the amount of Sprint users now on T-mobile this is nowhere near enough capacity during rush hour. 

[wispiANt]

Sorry in advance for the poor quality pic, took this late last night. eNB 41792 was fully upgraded in the past month or two, which means we're down to two sites left in all of East Williamsburg that haven't been fully upgraded with n41 (one does have n71, though). Mapped on CellMapper.

Also, my nearest VZ site was upgraded with C-Band!

[T-MoblieUser207]

On 11/6/2021 at 11:56 PM, Paynefanbro said:

This is quite the surprise! This is the exact site that I've been pessimistic about T-Mobile keeping because it is pretty close to T-Mobile eNB 40971. I always roam on that Sprint site inside of the Home Depot on Hamilton Ave and it fills in a weaker area of coverage by the Lowe's on 2nd Ave. 

I was also worried they would decommission this site too, but with the Culver Viaduct creating a "wall", limiting eNB 40971's reach south and 41348 having trouble reaching the into the area, I figured it would only be a matter of time before the site was kept. Both the Lowe's and the Home Depot have trouble indoors on T-Mobile, if not outright no signal, so this is massive win.

On 11/7/2021 at 12:54 PM, mirskyc said:

My only compliant since being on T-Mobile is the speeds on Transit wireless in the subways. They have yet to rearrange the spectrum. T-Mobile has yet to take over the Sprint spectrum and is only broadcasting 10x10 B2, 20x20 B4 and 5x5 B12. With the amount of Sprint users now on T-mobile this is nowhere near enough capacity during rush hour. 

Sadly, the subway DAS is still midband only, no B12 or B71 yet, even though AT&T has B12 live, Verizon B13, and Sprint B26. Strange enough, they turned on B25 MFBI on the DAS, so no more roaming to Sprint 15 MHz B25, unless you band lock B26 or get to the few stations with Sprint B41.

 

Sprint eNB 6798 still has its panels up, but the tower is definitely off. With the antennas still up there and wired in, unlike eNB 75500 that has no trace of Sprint equipment, I wonder which site out of the two Dish may be on first in this area.

 

Work continues on T-Mobile eNB 44136. I thought they were finished, since everything was up, but I guess not, as someone was up there, and the RFS panels were covered later on in the day. First pic around 1:30, second around 4:30.

[wispiANt]

On 10/30/2021 at 3:03 PM, thisischuck01 said:

Would love to see them keep the site at 304 Boerum St, as well, what with the new Netflix studio - I'll have to take a trip over there and check it out.

Both this site and eNB 253874 are now broadcasting the keep PLMN. Was dropped from a strong but very congested n41 signal to Sprint's B41 broadcasting from eNB 253874, which was interesting.

[AirlineFlyer]

A few sites of interest here in Fort Greene, Washginton Ave at DeKalb. I know the first is Verizon eNB 84421, running LTE only on those small antennas. But unlike T-Mobile with a similar site in the area, speeds are very good, 200+ Mbps.

Across the street, though, I'm not sure who this is. It's not mapped on Cellmapper. I suspect it's AT&T but mapper for that carrier is weak. Any thoughts?

Verizon

Unknown, maybe AT&T?

[wispiANt]

On 11/19/2021 at 1:12 PM, AirlineFlyer said:

This is AT&T. They've got a permit for microwave there, plus the antenna on the left is Kathrein gear.

On 11/19/2021 at 1:12 PM, AirlineFlyer said:

 

This is Verizon. 

[wispiANt]

Attempted to do some B41 mapping in the UWS yesterday, as I noticed CellMapper was pretty bare in that area. I think I picked up a grand total of two sites between W 98th and W 59th, was on Sprint's B41 the vast majority of the time.

Found some VZ C-Band deployed at W 110th and Columbus, always thought this was an interesting site:

 

[AirlineFlyer]

14 hours ago, thisischuck01 said:

This is AT&T. They've got a permit for microwave there, plus the antenna on the left is Kathrein gear.

This is Verizon. 

Oh, huh! The Verizon pin is on the wrong side of the street on cellmapper then, while AT&T is missing entirely. Thanks!

[T-MoblieUser207]

The list of sites with 312-250 keep getting larger, Sprint eNB 6879 and 9992 have it now. I was hoping to find B12 for T-Mobile eNB 47947 on the B12/41 locked device, as I know B41 wasn't here, but the device found the 312-250 PLMN instead.

I passed by T-Mobile eNB 894588 to trigger the other bands I mapped to show up, which they did, but the curious thing I found was the site is still broadcasting the old Sprint eNB 6695 for B25 G block even though no Sprint equipment is up on the site for over 2 weeks now. B41 is T-Mobile only, and B26 from 6879 reaches very well. I'll pass by this site again to see if all 3 sectors are doing it, as its possibly a way to maintain Sprint coverage after converting sites.

T-Mobile eNB 44136 has all its new bands showing up now. Still need to remap eNB 55916, as Cellmapper still hasn't popped the B41 eNB back up yet for some unknown reason.

The small cell count for T-Mobile has skyrocketed. In addition to the new ones in East Flatbush, there are new ones in East New York, Ozone Park, South Richmond Hill, Flushing, and Jamaica.

[Paynefanbro]

12 hours ago, T-MoblieUser207 said:

The small cell count for T-Mobile has skyrocketed. In addition to the new ones in East Flatbush, there are new ones in East New York, Ozone Park, South Richmond Hill, Flushing, and Jamaica.

I was about to make mention of the same thing. I've been noticing that while driving around my phone will drop down to LTE a lot more and it's not because I'm outside of 5G coverage but because I'm running into a lot more small cells.

Most notably in my own area, they added a new small cell along Nostrand Ave near Lincoln Place which is an area of poorer signal because it's near the cell edge for all 4 sites around it. Funnily enough you and @thisischuck01 are the only people who have mapped it on Cellmapper lol.

Maybe someone from Sprint managed to convince the T-Mobile higher-ups that small cells are worth the investment. And it's not something that's only happening in NYC. Every time I go to Boston, I'm surprised at how many T-Mobile small cells I encounter throughout the metro. It's quite the departure from what Neville is saying about small cells not being a focus for T-Mobile.

[wispiANt]

15 hours ago, T-MoblieUser207 said:

The list of sites with 312-250 keep getting larger, Sprint eNB 6879 and 9992 have it now. I was hoping to find B12 for T-Mobile eNB 47947 on the B12/41 locked device, as I know B41 wasn't here, but the device found the 312-250 PLMN instead.

Took the train out to the Rockaways this weekend, bandlocked to B41, and saw SO many 312-250 enabled sites! Really wish I could map them, CellMapper shows them all as 310-120. Was pretty amused to see eNB 899059 pop up - now that's what I call density (Sprint, AT&T, and VZ only have one site each in this complex)!

 

2 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

Most notably in my own area, they added a new small cell along Nostrand Ave near Lincoln Place which is an area of poorer signal because it's near the cell edge for all 4 sites around it. Funnily enough you and @thisischuck01 are the only people who have mapped it on Cellmapper lol.

Seems like this might be confirmation that T-Mobile is now using Mobilitie as a small cell vendor? I wonder if these were originally planned to be Sprint small cells.

 

Edit:

Looking around in the Bushwick/Williamsburg area and there are a LOT of small cells that should have been lit up ages ago but have only been seen recently.

eNB 135599, for example, at the corner of Wyckoff and Bleecker. Reserved 5/4/2017, installed Oct 2019, but not mapped until Aug 2021...

Or eNB 137444, at Scholes and Leonard. Reserved 8/14/2019, still not installed as of July 2021, first mapped Nov 2021.

[Paynefanbro]

1 hour ago, thisischuck01 said:

Seems like this might be confirmation that T-Mobile is now using Mobilitie as a small cell vendor? I wonder if these were originally planned to be Sprint small cells.

I recall Sprint primarily using Mobilitie as their small cell vendor here so I wouldn't be surprised if T-Mobile took over the contract and is using it as an opportunity to densify outside of just using macros.

 

1 hour ago, thisischuck01 said:

Was pretty amused to see eNB 899059 pop up - now that's what I call density (Sprint, AT&T, and VZ only have one site each in this complex)!

That's pretty crazy! So far all of the keep-sites you guys have been finding fit in really well in areas that are poorer areas for the macro network but it seems like that one is just purely to boost capacity. It may speak to how many customers T-Mobile has in that area. Just taking a look online Bay View Houses is composed of 23 buildings and ~1,600 apartments. I don't know how Verizon, AT&T, or Sprint are covering all of those buildings and people with a single site.

[wispiANt]

Here's another good one...

Reserved 12/22/2017. Still not installed as of May 2021. Noticed it in the last week or two and was thinking to myself "was that there before?". Almost four years between approval and deployment, nice work T-Mobile. 👏👏

Though I guess I shouldn't give them credit just yet, as it's still not live... lol

[dkyeager]

8 hours ago, thisischuck01 said:

Here's another good one...

Reserved 12/22/2017. Still not installed as of May 2021. Noticed it in the last week or two and was thinking to myself "was that there before?". Almost four years between approval and deployment, nice work T-Mobile. 👏👏

Though I guess I shouldn't give them credit just yet, as it's still not live... lol

I assume all these new small cells are fiber fed, correct?

[wispiANt]

37 minutes ago, dkyeager said:

I assume all these new small cells are fiber fed, correct?

Yep! VZ provides backhaul for the majority of T-Mobile sites in this neighborhood.

[T-MoblieUser207]

 

14 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

Most notably in my own area, they added a new small cell along Nostrand Ave near Lincoln Place which is an area of poorer signal because it's near the cell edge for all 4 sites around it.

12 hours ago, thisischuck01 said:

Seems like this might be confirmation that T-Mobile is now using Mobilitie as a small cell vendor? I wonder if these were originally planned to be Sprint small cells.

When I originally passed by and found this small cell, I was supposed to come back and take a proper spin of the blocks to locate it. I'm not certain it's any of the Mobilitie SCs nearby, I think it is the Crown Castle small cell on Lincoln Place between Nostrand and Rogers Avenues (ID 17022 according to the google map link). Not 100% sure though.

14 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

Maybe someone from Sprint managed to convince the T-Mobile higher-ups that small cells are worth the investment. And it's not something that's only happening in NYC. Every time I go to Boston, I'm surprised at how many T-Mobile small cells I encounter throughout the metro. It's quite the departure from what Neville is saying about small cells not being a focus for T-Mobile.

I hope someone did, as it will pay off with the macro density they have currently, and plan to have with more of the Sprint sites being converted, especially once the mmWave capable small cells start being deployed. Really amazing the moves they are making right now.

12 hours ago, thisischuck01 said:

Took the train out to the Rockaways this weekend, bandlocked to B41, and saw SO many 312-250 enabled sites!

Someone finally flipped the switch for 312-250 across NYC, and I'm here for allll of it. Since it is much easier to tell which sites will definitely be kept now, some paranoia of T-Mobile ditching Sprint sites that they should keep is gone now. They may keep the higher end of the  the 12-13k sites Neville is mentioned saying in June this year if the amount of 312-250 sites popping up continues the way its going.

12 hours ago, thisischuck01 said:

Was pretty amused to see eNB 899059 pop up - now that's what I call density (Sprint, AT&T, and VZ only have one site each in this complex)!

This is wild, wow! There are a few Sprint sites that are in a similar position like this that I'm going to need to pay more attention to now. Extremely happy I made the decision last year to pick up a Sprint SIM for mapping, the amount of data added to Cellmapper has been, and continues to be, priceless.

11 hours ago, thisischuck01 said:

Here's another good one...

Reserved 12/22/2017. Still not installed as of May 2021. Noticed it in the last week or two and was thinking to myself "was that there before?". Almost four years between approval and deployment, nice work T-Mobile. 👏👏

Though I guess I shouldn't give them credit just yet, as it's still not live... lol

Funny enough, the sidewalk has the manhole for the node in the street view image, so I wonder what they are waiting for still.

Edited November 23, 2021 by T-MoblieUser207
typos

[wispiANt]

1 hour ago, T-MoblieUser207 said:

Funny enough, the sidewalk has the manhole for the node in the street view image, so I wonder what they are waiting for still.

Knowing T-Mobile, probably something dumb like the pole needs to be replaced but they'd prefer if the city paid for it.

[T-MoblieUser207]

Another Sprint site has been converted! No idea what the Sprint eNBs were, but the new B66 eNB is 894640. Cellmapper back to acting up again, as it has been mapped, but hidden. Same gig cap as eNB 894588, but the interesting thing here was the tower has such little traffic I was able to get to above 700 on the tests I ran. Google map link, and here is the current view from yesterday:

Another tower to add to the 312-250 list: eNB 6853. This tower falls into the density category, as T-Mobile eNB 41532 is less than 400ft away. Shockingly, I was able to place it under the 312-250 PLMN, but when I returned later to see If I could do it again, it mapped under 310-120 instead, but still showed 312-250 in Service Mode. eNB 6898 I'm not sure is a Sprint keep, just mapped under the 312-250 PLMN as I had B26 locked.

There are a few others which I think T-Mobile may keep, Sprint eNBs 15946, 9727, and either 17822 or 81319 (or both with the moves they have been making), but I haven't verified them yet. Has anyone checked the infamous Greenpoint Sprint site to see if it is broadcasting 312-250? 312-250 shows up on both Androids and iPhones, and it would be appalling if its 311-490.

Sprint is disappearing either via conversions or decommissioning, as eNB 5893 is wiped clean. No panels remain, only the roof equipment housing. Another tower, where Sprint is on the same building as T-Mobile eNB 43376 still has its panels up, but they are not active. Tower is just as empty as I remember it in 2017, the last time I was over here. The thing about this site is it seems to have 500 Mbps backhaul for T-Mobile, as the speedtest goes above 450, but then comes right down and levels out at 300-320 Mbps. It is first tower that I couldn't pass 500 Mbps with n41 active.

In the 40 MHz n41 area of Brooklyn, Sprint still seems to be chugging along fine, I haven't noticed large gaps or areas where I'm mapping B25/26 only, unlike the 80 MHz n41 areas. Plus Sprint's small cell build is still mostly live. It also seems like there aren't any AAHF panels in this area, if there is one at all. Which is good for locating sites, as it means it will be 2 eNBs instead of 4 lol.

Verizon looks like they will have solid coverage with C-band once it goes live. eNBs 81224 and 81056 have the panel up.