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Network Vision/LTE - New York City Market


Ace41690

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Pretty surprised to see this many conversions so early on, especially with T-Mobile claiming that the vast majority of them won't be happening until next year.

1 hour ago, T-MoblieUser207 said:

Has anyone checked the infamous Greenpoint Sprint site to see if it is broadcasting 312-250?

Hoping to get around to it sometime this weekend. I recall earlier this year I was able to connect to it but only when I was indoors and pretty much outside of T-Mobile coverage. Maybe with the changes mentioned here I'll be able to just roam onto the site when I'm near it, even outdoors.

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1 hour ago, Paynefanbro said:

Pretty surprised to see this many conversions so early on, especially with T-Mobile claiming that the vast majority of them won't be happening until next year.

Most carriers cut the depreciating sites by half at about the six month mark.  Mid December may be that time.  CDMA likely already happened.

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13 hours ago, thisischuck01 said:

Greenpoint site is showing the keep PLMN, stopped by today.

I managed to stop by too! Not surprised it's broadcasting the keep PLMN given all of the other keep sites but I'm definitely relieved.

Connected to the single 20MHz Band 41 carrier while there. Field Test Mode was reporting 4x4MIMO and 64QAM but I was only able to get up to 50Mbps while connected. Not bad for what's basically a skeleton network at this point.

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On 11/23/2021 at 12:35 AM, T-MoblieUser207 said:

When I originally passed by and found this small cell, I was supposed to come back and take a proper spin of the blocks to locate it. I'm not certain it's any of the Mobilitie SCs nearby, I think it is the Crown Castle small cell on Lincoln Place between Nostrand and Rogers Avenues (ID 17022 according to the google map link). Not 100% sure though.

Ah, that would make more sense. I really gotta organize that map a bit better, it's a bit hard to parse in its current state.

 

On 11/23/2021 at 1:54 AM, thisischuck01 said:

Knowing T-Mobile, probably something dumb like the pole needs to be replaced but they'd prefer if the city paid for it.

Well, the site is live and the pole has not been replaced - it's just as rusty as it appears in Streetview. Pulling good speeds with several LAA carriers, plus a strong connection n41 from a nearby macro. Would really love to know what the holdup was, the AT&T node down the street (eNB 117233, 17547 on the DOITT map) was reserved around the same time and went up in mid-2019 (a year and a half later). Hopefully, T-Mobile is retaining the Sprint small cell team and the sites that have recently been reserved won't take 3+ years to be deployed. Also, would be nice if the DOITT updated their database a bit more often, the last update was in May...

 

On 11/27/2021 at 11:15 AM, T-MoblieUser207 said:

There are a few others which I think T-Mobile may keep, Sprint eNBs 15946, 9727, and either 17822 or 81319 (or both with the moves they have been making), but I haven't verified them yet.

100% agreed on all of these sites. It looks as though T-Mobile is currently serving the area covered by the last two sites with oDAS nodes. I think you mentioned that a conversion you found was in a similar situation - have you stopped by again to see if they decomm'd those when the conversion went live?

 

On 11/27/2021 at 11:15 AM, T-MoblieUser207 said:

Another tower to add to the 312-250 list: eNB 6853.

Dang!! Something I am wondering is if any of these instances with extreme density will result in the nearby T-Mobile site being (eventually) decomm'd. In this situation, at least, I don't really think that that will be the case - unless there's something I don't know, the native site makes more sense to retain.

 

On 11/27/2021 at 11:15 AM, T-MoblieUser207 said:

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Interesting conversion here - the antenna just right of the 6449 doesn't appear to be the stereotypical APX16. Kinda looks like legacy Sprint gear?

 

On 11/27/2021 at 11:15 AM, T-MoblieUser207 said:

Cellmapper back to acting up again, as it has been mapped, but hidden.

Ugh, this is annoying the hell out of me. Hope they're not just going to lose a weeks worth of data again. 

Found another Sprint keep site while I was mapping up in Greenpoint, eNB 7103. Picked up a B41 signal at the corner of Leonard and Greenpoint Ave. Still hasn't shown up on CellMapper, but I'm guessing it's from the site on Manhattan Ave, between India and Java (Streetview). That's two blocks south of the T-Mobile site on that stretch (eNB 42891). I suppose it could also be the Sprint site at Greenpoint and Provost (eNB 15894) but that seems kinda insane to me unless they're decomming the old B2/B66/B12 T-Mobile site on the adjacent building (eNB 41407). There is a Sprint small cell right around that area (eNB 838363, 18830 on the DOITT map) but I don't believe it's that, signal wasn't strong enough and I picked up sector 66.

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Apparently there are also keep sites in Lower Manhattan. That's a surprise since both Sprint and T-Mobile had pretty high macro density there pre-merger. I connected to Sprint eNB 9850 with the 312-250 PLMN. It's about a block away from the nearest T-Mobile site so it must be a density site.

I superimposed the Sprint keep site over the T-Mobile Cellmapper map to show where it is.

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4 hours ago, thisischuck01 said:

Found another Sprint keep site while I was mapping up in Greenpoint, eNB 7103. Picked up a B41 signal at the corner of Leonard and Greenpoint Ave. Still hasn't shown up on CellMapper, but I'm guessing it's from the site on Manhattan Ave, between India and Java (Streetview). That's two blocks south of the T-Mobile site on that stretch (eNB 42891). I suppose it could also be the Sprint site at Greenpoint and Provost (eNB 15894) but that seems kinda insane to me unless they're decomming the old B2/B66/B12 T-Mobile site on the adjacent building (eNB 41407). There is a Sprint small cell right around that area (eNB 838363, 18830 on the DOITT map) but I don't believe it's that, signal wasn't strong enough and I picked up sector 66.

eNB 7103 is a part of eNB 6193, which is the site on Manhattan Ave between India and Java. Sprint site eNB 15894 has been totally shut off and the adjacent T-Mobile site (eNB 41407) has been upgraded with B41/B71. Mapped all that today, we'll see when it shows up. eNB 6867 is also broadcasting the keep PLMN, though I'm not sure where that site is.

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21 hours ago, thisischuck01 said:

I think you mentioned that a conversion you found was in a similar situation - have you stopped by again to see if they decomm'd those when the conversion went live?

Yes, eNB 894588 (conversion site) is on the same intersection as Cells 1/7 of eNB 49470. When I past by the area on November 1st the small cell was still live, same for Nov 20th. I'll pass by it again and see if the situation is still the same.

21 hours ago, thisischuck01 said:

Dang!! Something I am wondering is if any of these instances with extreme density will result in the nearby T-Mobile site being (eventually) decomm'd. In this situation, at least, I don't really think that that will be the case - unless there's something I don't know, the native site makes more sense to retain.

This one baffled me too. 6853 is much taller than T-Mobile eNB 41532, so I'm guessing they are going for the same setup they have with 42854 and 56208, both of which are walking distance away.

21 hours ago, thisischuck01 said:

Interesting conversion here - the antenna just right of the 6449 doesn't appear to be the stereotypical APX16. Kinda looks like legacy Sprint gear?

I have no idea, as it was windy so the pic has a slight blur in it. I think its an AIR32, same like with the other conversion site, but I'm not sure. I'll have to come back here to remap the site for Cellmapper at some point, so I'll try and get a better picture then. The one thing I am sure of now though is converted sites broadcast the old Sprint eNB for B25 G block, as both this site and the other one still have Sprint B25 live.

21 hours ago, thisischuck01 said:

Ugh, this is annoying the hell out of me. Hope they're not just going to lose a weeks worth of data again.

Same here. The Sprint data I mapped showed up with no issue, including the trails that usually take weeks, but T-Mobile's data didn't, yet the data for both carriers were uploaded within seconds of each other. The annoying thing is, the data is there, but its not being pushed to the public, as 2 T-Mobile towers that were on the map months ago, didn't adjust based on the latest data, but updated with the recent mapped data once I moved them.

21 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

Apparently there are also keep sites in Lower Manhattan. That's a surprise since both Sprint and T-Mobile had pretty high macro density there pre-merger.

I fully expect sites T-Mo isn't co-located on with Sprint, or on the building immediately next door, they will keep in Manhattan. The macro density will probably be a bit more insane than it currently is.

 

The structure at the far left of Sprint's equipment is new. Nov 2020 streetview doesn't have it. If it is Dish, I wonder why they made a new rack instead of using the recently dormant Sprint rack, as this tower is offline. Could also be T-Mobile shifting locations, as I know of a few towers they have with that style of antenna holders.
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On 11/28/2021 at 11:43 AM, thisischuck01 said:

Also, would be nice if the DOITT updated their database a bit more often, the last update was in May...

The data was updated today: https://data.cityofnewyork.us/City-Government/Mobile-Telecommunications-Franchise-Pole-Reservati/tbgj-tdd6

NY SMA (Verizon?) looks to be installing a really dense network in Staten Island. Could this be a mmWave deployment?


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1 hour ago, AirlineFlyer said:

The data was updated today: https://data.cityofnewyork.us/City-Government/Mobile-Telecommunications-Franchise-Pole-Reservati/tbgj-tdd6

NY SMA (Verizon?) looks to be installing a really dense network in Staten Island. Could this be a mmWave deployment?


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Wow, didn't realize the DOITT was reading my comments. What a power to have! Lol.

I'd be very surprised if all the pole reservations being done at this point aren't for mmWave.

Threw together a better-organized Crown Castle map, I'll play around with the data and see if I can't come up with a better solution given the constraints of My Maps.  

The data still seems to be a bit out of date - node 16608, for example, still isn't showing as installed (though I first mapped it back in Feb). Almost 6000 total CC nodes, though! Love to see it.

Edit: If anyone wants to see all the data, here's a map. I can probably organize it a bit more from here.

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3 hours ago, AirlineFlyer said:

The data was updated today: https://data.cityofnewyork.us/City-Government/Mobile-Telecommunications-Franchise-Pole-Reservati/tbgj-tdd6

NY SMA (Verizon?) looks to be installing a really dense network in Staten Island. Could this be a mmWave deployment?

NY SMSA is definitely Verizon from what I'm seeing online. Interesting that they're opting to build out small cells for themselves as opposed to contracting a franchisee. Looks like AT&T is doing the same thing under the name New Cingular although on a much smaller scale.

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9 hours ago, T-MoblieUser207 said:

I'll have to come back here to remap the site for Cellmapper at some point, so I'll try and get a better picture then.

It's my lucky day, I don't have to remap it, as the eNB has shown up. Shockingly, 2/12/66/71 are all under one eNB, 894640, no split for 12/71; 41 is the only split on the site. Still will revisit to try and get a better side antenna pic.

eNB 55916 is finally fully mapped. Definitely was a midband only site pre-5G upgrades.

The amount of fully converted sites is up to 3 now, as I stumbled into one in Sheepshead Bay; eNB 894600/894602/894603. Google Streetview shows Sprint panels up as of Oct 2019, and the eNB numbering scheme matches the first convert site I mapped. The bus moved too fast for me to realize what I was passing and snag a photo, so I quickly flipped through band locking instead. I have a sneaky suspicion on where to find #4; it might be Sprint eNB 253934. eNB 5900 is a possibility too, as T-Mobile eNB 894620 has to come from either one of them, and 894620 matches the current Sprint conversion numbering scheme.

3 hours ago, thisischuck01 said:

 

Very confused how the frequency is 2590-2690, yet the NR EARFCN says differently (2550-2650). Very happy nonetheless, can't wait to hit the gig cap with 100 MHz n41 versus 80 MHz n41, unless the bump to 100 comes with a remote switch to flip on the 10G links too. Still wonder what plans they have for the 40 MHz areas, unless those areas no longer count as parts of NYC and count as suburbs instead /s

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Found another keep site in Crown Heights. Sprint eNB 837970. What's unique about this site compared to the others I've encountered is that my phone roams onto it automatically. It'll drop T-Mobile coverage completely and pick this site up if I get close enough to it. I've noticed it happen a bunch of time while driving on Atlantic Avenue.

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On 11/27/2021 at 11:15 AM, T-MoblieUser207 said:

There are a few others which I think T-Mobile may keep, Sprint eNBs 15946, 9727, and either 17822 or 81319 (or both with the moves they have been making), but I haven't verified them yet.

All 5 are being kept, plus eNB 5882, which I didn't expect to be kept. This is going to be an extremely hyper dense macro network. Also to add to the keep list: 5826 and 15941. Album of screenshots past and present here.

On 11/29/2021 at 10:40 PM, T-MoblieUser207 said:

I have a sneaky suspicion on where to find #4; it might be Sprint eNB 253934. eNB 5900 is a possibility too, as T-Mobile eNB 894620 has to come from either one of them, and 894620 matches the current Sprint conversion numbering scheme.

253934 has been wiped clean, and eNB 5900 is the one that has been fully converted. Not what I expected at all as eNB 127922 has n41 installed. I wanted a pic from the north (127922 in focus, former 5900 in the background), but did the south instead. You can see a pixelated 127922 if you look very closely, and here are both circled if you can't. I'm not sure what happened with the Cellmapper data here, but I think other towers were picked up instead, as nothing has updated the way I expected it to, plus its height means I was probably wasn't connected to it when I thought I was. I couldn't flip through band locking, nor was the time of the day helpful for taking a spin around it.
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On 11/29/2021 at 12:00 PM, T-MoblieUser207 said:

The structure at the far left of Sprint's equipment is new. Nov 2020 streetview doesn't have it. If it is Dish, I wonder why they made a new rack instead of using the recently dormant Sprint rack, as this tower is offline. Could also be T-Mobile shifting locations, as I know of a few towers they have with that style of antenna holders.

It's T-Mobile shifting locations.
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Kuoppamaki insists that low-to-mid-band carrier aggregation (n41/n71) is already live, but won't tell me where it is. I have been having a lot of trouble finding this mysterious feature in the real world. Other sources tell me that it's live on the network, but no consumer phones have gotten the firmware update needed to enable it on the device side.

PC Mag has a new T-Mobile 5G article here, and I would love to check if n41 SA is live across NYC, as it being live means NR CA is probably also live, but they removed the n41 SA option from my A71. @thisischuck01 have you seen any NR CA since you last saw it, as I have heard the S21 is one of the few, if not the only T-Mobile branded Samsung device that still has the n41 SA option.

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57 minutes ago, T-MoblieUser207 said:

PC Mag has a new T-Mobile 5G article here, and I would love to check if n41 SA is live across NYC, as it being live means NR CA is probably also live, but they removed the n41 SA option from my A71.

I don't think NR CA is available on the iPhone 13 just yet but I did connect to SA n41 in Brooklyn as recently as Tuesday. I spotted this in my basement with my phone flipping between n41 and n71.

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1 hour ago, Paynefanbro said:

I don't think NR CA is available on the iPhone 13 just yet but I did connect to SA n41 in Brooklyn as recently as Tuesday. I spotted this in my basement with my phone flipping between n41 and n71.

Ah thanks! The iPhone 13 should definitely support NR CA, if it is live. I don't know if Apple has the feature unavailable for use until a carrier(s) want it active though.

I may need to switch from the TMB to XAA CSC sooner than later to bring back the n41 SA option then...

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I should really get a map going of all these keep sites...

 

20 hours ago, T-MoblieUser207 said:

It's T-Mobile shifting locations.

Yeah, that was my guess. I'm expecting to see a lot of sector azimuth shifts as T-Mobile integrates all these new macro sites into their network.

 

20 hours ago, T-MoblieUser207 said:

PC Mag has a new T-Mobile 5G article here, and I would love to check if n41 SA is live across NYC, as it being live means NR CA is probably also live, but they removed the n41 SA option from my A71. @thisischuck01 have you seen any NR CA since you last saw it, as I have heard the S21 is one of the few, if not the only T-Mobile branded Samsung device that still has the n41 SA option.

I'm picking it up here and there, but in most places I've been it isn't live. I picked an unmapped site in Bushwick last night but it was being a bit buggy:
 

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CellMapper doesn't show MCC/MNC and I kept dropping signal completely and regaining it, losing data connectivity, etc. Not sure if that was the phone or the site. No sign of n41 SA in East Williamsburg, though.

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Well, this is interesting - if I bandlock to n41 SA, my S21U loses connection completely. But if I bandlock to n71 SA and n41 SA, my S21U is able to get a n71+n41 connection. Williamsburg area.

 

Edit: Took a walk around the block, all the sites (4+) I connected to are broadcasting like this.

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2 hours ago, thisischuck01 said:

Well, this is interesting - if I bandlock to n41 SA, my S21U loses connection completely. But if I bandlock to n71 SA and n41 SA, my S21U is able to get a n71+n41 connection. Williamsburg area.

 

Edit: Took a walk around the block, all the sites (4+) I connected to are broadcasting like this.

image.png

Question:  Are you able to make a call while locked to N71 + N41?

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