Network Vision/LTE - Chicago Market

[Dkoellerwx]

 

That doesn't make sense. Once every site is upgraded, there won't be any place that you can pick up CDMA on PCS that you won't also be able to use 1x800, at least in theory. That means that everyone (at least all smartphone users) will be parked on 1x800 all the time. Even with 1xA, I doubt the single CDMA carrier that is being deployed on SMR can support all those connections- some sites are bound to hit their capacity. Will there be network-side load balancing between the bands like there will be for LTE? If not, Sprint may as well refarm the rest of their PCS holdings to LTE.

 

 

LTE devices will park on 1x800, that is correct. But the beauty of the new network is that as soon as a call is initiated, you can be bunted to PCS if needed. If you're simply parked in 1x800, and not making a call or sending a text, it doesn't take up that much room, since you're not maintaining a constant connection. 

 

And if you're using a tri-band device, you're not parked in 1x at all. You're solely connected to LTE. As soon as a call is initiated, you fall back to 1x800, or 1x PCS if needed. 

[tongboy]

Is there any way to pull what modulation the phone is using? Duty cycle?

 

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There isn't anything in the Android API that can retrieve that data. I have never heard of another way to do it.

 

If we could have lower level data like that I think I would spend more time looking at engineering screens than anything else on the phone!

[mhammett]

That would help clue in a lot as to what is happening. Great modulation rules out interference. Poor modulation means it is interference.

 

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[Joeynach]

I spoke with a women from dan@Sprint finally.  There wasn't really all that much they could do, they are basically just glorified CS reps.  It was basically more of the same, they don't understand when I said all of Chicago is experiencing degraded LTE over the past couple months and mentioned subjects such as poor SNR, LTE signal strength, and limited capacity in the market due to spectrum deployment on 5x5 instead of 10x10 like other markets.  That basically lead to "we apologize for the lack of service". 

 

Someone else said it best as they really are just trained on answering billing questions and open trouble tickets with tech support.  All she really did was offer me an Airwave, which I declined as my issue is not poor signal strength, and then offer to open a trouble ticket with tech support based on my home address.  I doubt it goes anywhere, but that's where we left it.

[mhammett]

A tech told me to make sure the ticket is created at the problem location.

 

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[ChiWestLoop]

I was in the Logan Square neighborhood yesterday and I was downloading at around 6MBps and uploading at 2MBps but when I went back to my West Loop condo I was back at less than 1MBps down and up.

[WiWavelength]

I spoke with a women from dan@Sprint finally.  There wasn't really all that much they could do, they are basically just glorified CS reps.  It was basically more of the same, they don't understand when I said all of Chicago is experiencing degraded LTE over the past couple months and mentioned subjects such as poor SNR, LTE signal strength, and limited capacity in the market due to spectrum deployment on 5x5 instead of 10x10 like other markets.  That basically lead to "we apologize for the lack of service". 

 

What?  Sprint currently has no 10 MHz FDD markets.  All initial LTE deployment is 5 MHz FDD because that is the size of the PCS G block.

 

And you really should not bother Sprint with these issues.  You will just get canned answers from PR people who probably do not know the difference between 5 MHz FDD and 10 MHz FDD.

 

AJ

[Joeynach]

A tech told me to make sure the ticket is created at the problem location.

 

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Too bad the problem location is all of cook county!

[mhammett]

And you really should not bother Sprint with these issues. You will just get canned answers from PR people who probably do not know the difference between 5 MHz FDD and 10 MHz FDD.

 

AJ

So we can't complain here (somewhat agreed as there is no official representation), but we can't complain *to* Sprint either? I guess we better start praying or voodoo or sacrifices or...

 

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[Vince]

So we can't complain here (somewhat agreed as there is no official representation), but we can't complain *to* Sprint either? I guess we better start praying or voodoo or sacrifices or...

 

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I've already sacrificed a goat in order to break the 1mbps barrier in Chicago. Didn't work. Poor goat. :/

[tommym65]

I've already sacrificed a goat in order to break the 1mbps barrier in Chicago. Didn't work. Poor goat. :/

Oh, great, and you've also doomed the Cubbies for another 66 years. THANKS A LOT!!!

[WiWavelength]

So we can't complain here (somewhat agreed as there is no official representation), but we can't complain *to* Sprint either? I guess we better start praying or voodoo or sacrifices or...

 

What do you hope to accomplish?  Just some psychological satisfaction from making a complaint?

 

If this SINR issue is really pandemic in Chicago, then Sprint is aware.  It is either working on the problem because it is fixable or standing pat because it is not fixable.  In that latter case, complaints will do nothing.  LTE may simply be saturated -- especially as Sprint in Chicago is reportedly second among the big four in market share but last in currently available spectrum.  Not to mention, a few hundred thousand USCC subs need to find a new home, many landing on Sprint.

 

Honestly, I am not sure that some of you have the patience and temperament to be Sprint subs.  Might you be happier on one of the anti competitive Twin Bells or "nifty shit" T-Mobile?

 

AJ

[mhammett]

What do you hope to accomplish?  Just some psychological satisfaction from making a complaint?

 

If this SINR issue is really pandemic in Chicago, then Sprint is aware.  It is either working on the problem because it is fixable or standing pat because it is not fixable.  In that latter case, complaints will do nothing.  LTE may simply be saturated -- especially as Sprint in Chicago is reportedly second among the big four in market share but last in currently available spectrum.  Not to mention, a few hundred thousand USCC subs need to find a new home, many landing on Sprint.

 

Honestly, I am not sure that some of you have the patience and temperament to be Sprint subs.  Might you be happier on one of the anti competitive Twin Bells or "nifty shit" T-Mobile?

 

AJ

 

Either they aren't aware or they haven't been properly motivated. I actually imagine it's both. Contacting them helps to accomplish both.

 

I've been with Sprint (or Nextel) for 12 years. I rode iDEN until the ic902, then finally departed to the V950. I have patience.

 

I actually have both Sprint and Verizon, EVO4GLTE and GS3 respectively. If I could get AT&T for cheap or free, I'd probably add it to the mix. T-Mobile's main advantage is international calling, which I don't do.

 

You can't say I don't know what it's like building out a network because that's exactly what I do. Mine isn't mobile, but that just means the signals are better\worse depending on your perspective. (No customer gets installed with worse than -75 dB where as -75 in the mobile world is a darn hot signal. Target signals are -50 for unlicensed and -40 or -45 for licensed). However, stuff gets missed. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

[Joeynach]

What do you hope to accomplish?  Just some psychological satisfaction from making a complaint?

 

If this SINR issue is really pandemic in Chicago, then Sprint is aware.  It is either working on the problem because it is fixable or standing pat because it is not fixable.  In that latter case, complaints will do nothing.  LTE may simply be saturated -- especially as Sprint in Chicago is reportedly second among the big four in market share but last in currently available spectrum.  Not to mention, a few hundred thousand USCC subs need to find a new home, many landing on Sprint.

 

Honestly, I am not sure that some of you have the patience and temperament to be Sprint subs.  Might you be happier on one of the anti competitive Twin Bells or "nifty shit" T-Mobile?

 

AJ

Well a couple things here.  Mental satisfaction does nothing.  There is some real substance to bombarding Sprint with the poor SNR issue in Chicago.  Throw enough shit against the wall and something is bound to stick.  Get enough support tickets elevated and that's how Sprint becomes aware of the problem at the corporate level where real decisions are made and resources can be allocated.  Also, complain to Sprint and its possible you get a credit on your account for poor service, happens all the time.  Though at the end of the day I agree with you, Sprint should know and address the problem on their own.  Less technically minded people than me with Sprint have also started to notice and asked me if I have also seen slow speeds on my Sprint device.  I laughed.  But in all honesty if its un-fixable issue (and with USCC customers coming) their churn within the Chicago market will skyrocket in 2014, that will certainly get their attention.

[Joeynach]

I was in the Logan Square neighborhood yesterday and I was downloading at around 6MBps and uploading at 2MBps but when I went back to my West Loop condo I was back at less than 1MBps down and up.

I got around 1 Meg down and up in River North on a sleepy Sunday night last nite.  Thats about the best I have seen in any Chicago neighborhood in a couple months.  Im still seeing much poorer speeds and SNR in the Loop and Lincoln Park.  Im not sure why the differences between neighborhoods here.

[Madfelon]

Waiting till June of 2014 to make the choice of staying or going to another carrier. I have been patient with Sprint but with the network detearating here in Chicago over the past 6-8 months I really don't have much hope for them. I love the price but that really isn't cutting it anymore.

On a side note the city of Chicago had all the wireless vendors out at our test facility to sell their service for our police data terminals in the squad cars since we will be replacing the old evdo-3G modems and lets just say Sprint didn't even get a second look from our techs.

[jreuschl]

Waiting till June of 2014 to make the choice of staying or going to another carrier. I have been patient with Sprint but with the network detearating here in Chicago over the past 6-8 months I really don't have much hope for them. I love the price but that really isn't cutting it anymore.

On a side note the city of Chicago had all the wireless vendors out at our test facility to sell their service for our police data terminals in the squad cars since we will be replacing the old evdo-3G modems and lets just say Sprint didn't even get a second look from our techs.

If that doesn't get Sprint to notice then nothing will.

 

I can see some average users not noticing a big difference between say 1mbps and 10mbps if you are just bringing up a few web pages and Facebook. I would think data card users however would be up in arms and definitely noticing the speed problems.

 

 

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[bucdenny]

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[rmorrisonva]

I'm pretty sure these issues are all capacity and that once LTE 800 and 2600 light up things will get better. Check out what my friends here in DC deal with on the vaunted "Verizon network":

 

https://community.verizonwireless.com/message/1006964

 

But in reality we are all seeing what a bandwidth crunch looks like, hell I even pop into overloaded LTE sectors on occasion in unusual places and it's readily apparent. I honestly don't expect things to get better until we're running on something a little heftier than 5x5 FDD LTE over PCS.

[Joeynach]

I'm pretty sure these issues are all capacity and that once LTE 800 and 2600 light up things will get better. Check out what my friends here in DC deal with on the vaunted "Verizon network":

 

https://community.verizonwireless.com/message/1006964

 

But in reality we are all seeing what a bandwidth crunch looks like, hell I even pop into overloaded LTE sectors on occasion in unusual places and it's readily apparent. I honestly don't expect things to get better until we're running on something a little heftier than 5x5 FDD LTE over PCS.

I agree, the issues all seem to point to a bandwidth crunch, caused by a spectrum shortage.  Reminds me of our 1st generation of cable modem when I was in high school, the bandwidth would reduce like clockwork during peak evening hours.  I remember speeds over 1 Megabit would go down to 256K during dinner time and the evening when everyone else was on and doing their surfing/downloads.  I see the same with the Sprint LTE network these days.  Its being crunched.  My speeds (and SNR) improve when I am further away from the city, my Speeds (and SNR) improve in places like the Loop when it empties out for the day after rush hour or on the weekends.  Albeit we are talking going from 50K download speeds to 150K download speeds, still an improvement.

 

I just think the most shocking thing of all is how quickly the newly built LTE network went from free and easy to slow and bogged down.  It is probably not a coincidence that this coincides with the release of the iPhone 5s and 5c this fall, both LTE devices, where before their users were probably using 3G iPhones or other non LTE devices, keeping the LTE airwaves relatively clean until now.

[mhammett]

Is it common in the mobile industry to use the same frequency on all sectors?

 

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[WiWavelength]

Is it common in the mobile industry to use the same frequency on all sectors?

 

Absolutely.  CDMA1X, EV-DO, W-CDMA, and LTE are all intended to be single frequency networks.  Going to unity frequency reuse is a big part of the capacity multiplier beyond AMPS, IS-136 TDMA, and GSM, which all require patterned frequency reuse.

 

AJ

[mhammett]

Absolutely.  CDMA1X, EV-DO, W-CDMA, and LTE are all intended to be single frequency networks.  Going to unity frequency reuse is a big part of the capacity multiplier beyond AMPS, IS-136 TDMA, and GSM, which all require patterned frequency reuse.

 

AJ

 

Oh, well, then there's your source of interference, everything else on the network!

[mhammett]

I don't know how anyone could think the same frequency on all sectors was a good idea. Self-interference is guaranteed and LTE needs a comparatively huge SNR.

 

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