Network Vision/LTE - Chicago Market

[Fraydog]

Then use microwave. This isn't a difficult concept. Backhaul is really easy.

 

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Almost all the providers here in Chester are using fiber from either Frontier or IBOP Southern now, except for T-Mobile and they suck with EDGE here. Very little microwave left and that's to very remote Verizon and ex-Alltel, soon to be AT&T sites. 

[mhammett]

Microwave has been taking the longest to set up for some reason.

 

In the Kansas market, all of the Microwave sites just started coming online in September/October.

 

It shouldn't. You can literally implement the same day you want to as there's tons of cellular backhaul in unlicensed 5.8 and now 60 GHz. Our licensed gear has been in place for over a year, seemingly waiting on the fiber to be ready.

 

Almost all the providers here in Chester are using fiber from either Frontier or IBOP Southern now, except for T-Mobile and they suck with EDGE here. Very little microwave left and that's to very remote Verizon and ex-Alltel, soon to be AT&T sites. 

 

I think ClearWave is the only Illinois BTOP winner I'm not working with. ;-)

 

There's new microwave here going in for all the carriers, even while almost all towers have fiber nearby from someone that offers FTTT services.  *shrugs*

[tongboy]

It shouldn't. You can literally implement the same day you want to as there's tons of cellular backhaul in unlicensed 5.8 and now 60 GHz. Our licensed gear has been in place for over a year, seemingly waiting on the fiber to be ready.

 

 

I think ClearWave is the only Illinois BTOP winner I'm not working with. ;-)

 

There's new microwave here going in for all the carriers, even while almost all towers have fiber nearby from someone that offers FTTT services. *shrugs*

Are you aware of any equipment shortages somewhere we can't see (inside the cabinet)? I didn't realize that other areas of the country with mw backhaul are delayed as well.

 

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[mhammett]

Are you aware of any equipment shortages somewhere we can't see (inside the cabinet)? I didn't realize that other areas of the country with mw backhaul are delayed as well.

 

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There's no major industry wide shortages that I'm aware of. Dragonwave (their microwave supplier in my area) distributors I was speaking with about a month ago didn't indicate any issues with stocking. That said, I haven't tried to order one either.

[ChiWestLoop]

I just upgraded to the iPhone 5S and I can also confirm data speeds for LTE in the Loop area definitely horrible. The guy from the Sprint store recognized the issues but he's positive these are growing pains for the new network and that things will improve greatly within the next 6-12 months. I'm confident Sprint will hold true to the promise of bringing the best network in the market.

[Joeynach]

I just upgraded to the iPhone 5S and I can also confirm data speeds for LTE in the Loop area definitely horrible. The guy from the Sprint store recognized the issues but he's positive these are growing pains for the new network and that things will improve greatly within the next 6-12 months. I'm confident Sprint will hold true to the promise of bringing the best network in the market.

Im sure he is just referring to the activation of Sprint Spark or the other two LTE bands; 800 and 2500.  I am less confident in his time frames.  His assumption also doesn't take into account that for LTE speeds to improve drastically LTE users need to spread out across all three active bands as to not overload one single band.  I highly doubt the number of people that have 1900 LTE devices now, are all going to magically have the desire to spend several hundred dollars for a brand new tri-band LTE device in the next 6-12 months and spread out their LTE usage. 

[Fraydog]

Chicago is definitely a market where Triband beats any other band configuration.

 

Then again, from what I know, all carriers are a train wreck in the Loop right now.

 

I would definitely get a Triband device if I'm in Chicago. Also, there's a good chance service will improve right away with USCC towers shutting down January 31. 800 LTE will improve coverage drastically and speeds will improve due to offloading to 2600 MHz spectrum.

[Vince]

I'm just excited for 800 LTE on my iPhone. It will really show me what this network can do, and hopefully fill in the countless LTE dead zones around the suburbs. Also, we don't know if that band is activated on the iPhone because there's no way to test it. After reading the g2/nexus 5 forums with their complications, I've been wondering if Sprint locked band 26 on these iPhones and would require some sort of update whenever they feel like pushing it to devices.

[Joeynach]

Chicago is definitely a market where Triband beats any other band configuration.

 

Then again, from what I know, all carriers are a train wreck in the Loop right now.

 

I would definitely get a Triband device if I'm in Chicago. Also, there's a good chance service will improve right away with USCC towers shutting down January 31. 800 LTE will improve coverage drastically and speeds will improve due to offloading to 2600 MHz spectrum.

Your crazy logic tells me this won't happen.  Of course I want a tri-band LTE phone ASAP, but phones without contract upgrades are $500+.  How many people either will just pay out of the pocket for the phone, or have a contract upgrade coming anytime soon.  I guess its fine for new Sprint subscribers to assume they will have tri-band devices, but you know what, I am 1000x more tech savy than any Sprint customer, understand how much better my LTE could be if I went tri-band, and I still won't be upgrading for at least a year.  I will be sitting here expecting my GS3 with LTE 1900 to perform like LTE, and if it doesn't I will leave Sprint.  My next upgrade is Nov 2014, if the network doesn't work well on 1900 I will have 0% confidence that it would on 800/2600, and I am certainly not spending $500 before then to get the LTE I thought I was getting when I got the GS3 (when NV was announced).

[wobbypetty]

I'm just excited for 800 LTE on my iPhone. It will really show me what this network can do, and hopefully fill in the countless LTE dead zones around the suburbs. Also, we don't know if that band is activated on the iPhone because there's no way to test it. After reading the g2/nexus 5 forums with their complications, I've been wondering if Sprint locked band 26 on these iPhones and would require some sort of update whenever they feel like pushing it to devices.

 

Good news is with the improved RF performance of the Nexus 5 I have yet to see any of the typical LTE dead zones during my trips to work and back through the western suburbs.  For LTE signal its an easy 10 db higher than my HTC One and sometimes more.  Band 26 would be nice for indoors but even still I hold signal much stronger indoors than before.  My friends HTC One will drop to 3g where mine still holds -95 to -100 db of LTE.  Haven't gotten to the city yet so I am sure the slowness/SNR problems still exist there unfortunately

[mellimel2212]

Good news is with the improved RF performance of the Nexus 5 I have yet to see any of the typical LTE dead zones during my trips to work and back through the western suburbs. For LTE signal its an easy 10 db higher than my HTC One and sometimes more. Band 26 would be nice for indoors but even still I hold signal much stronger indoors than before. My friends HTC One will drop to 3g where mine still holds -95 to -100 db of LTE. Haven't gotten to the city yet so I am sure the slowness/SNR problems still exist there unfortunately

That's crazy because me and a couple of ingress buddies of mine was just at the blue frog bar and not only did I get LTE my other friends with Sprint did also.

 

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[mellimel2212]

The highest i saw was 15mb down.

 

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[always_learner]

Your crazy logic tells me this won't happen.  Of course I want a tri-band LTE phone ASAP, but phones without contract upgrades are $500+.  How many people either will just pay out of the pocket for the phone, or have a contract upgrade coming anytime soon.  I guess its fine for new Sprint subscribers to assume they will have tri-band devices, but you know what, I am 1000x more tech savy than any Sprint customer, understand how much better my LTE could be if I went tri-band, and I still won't be upgrading for at least a year.  I will be sitting here expecting my GS3 with LTE 1900 to perform like LTE, and if it doesn't I will leave Sprint.  My next upgrade is Nov 2014, if the network doesn't work well on 1900 I will have 0% confidence that it would on 800/2600, and I am certainly not spending $500 before then to get the LTE I thought I was getting when I got the GS3 (when NV was announced).

 

Those were my thoughts.

 

However, the nexus 5 not only features tri-band, but it also features full compatibility with t-mobile and at&t.  The phone allows for testing Sprint's 'new' network, and it will also allow me to jump ship if my tests come out less than favorable.

 

The nexus 5 would be used on the new carrier, or it could just be sold.  The nexus line tends to keep its value very well, so not much would be lost.  There's also usually some really good offers for 'new' customers.

 

But if I'm satisfied with spark, my next upgrade would be sold to gain some profit.

 

Why go through the hassle?  I'm curious how well Sprint will do.

[mhammett]

Good news is with the improved RF performance of the Nexus 5 I have yet to see any of the typical LTE dead zones during my trips to work and back through the western suburbs. For LTE signal its an easy 10 db higher than my HTC One and sometimes more. Band 26 would be nice for indoors but even still I hold signal much stronger indoors than before. My friends HTC One will drop to 3g where mine still holds -95 to -100 db of LTE. Haven't gotten to the city yet so I am sure the slowness/SNR problems still exist there unfortunately

That sounds great. Do you have any links about the great RF performance of the N5?

 

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[mhammett]

ingress

Oh really... Maybe we need to make a cross-faction S4GRU Ingress community on G+.

 

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[mellimel2212]

That wouldn't be such a bad idea bro lol. It was a cross faction meet up at the blue frog btw. I'm resistance.

 

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[wobbypetty]

That sounds great. Do you have any links about the great RF performance of the N5?

 

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It is all over the Nexus 5 device topic here http://s4gru.com/index.php?/topic/4989-lg-google-nexus-5-users-thread/

 

There are 87-ish pages of it so I dont have specific comments to pull out for you.  But if you check out that thread you will see unanimous opinion that the nexus 5 is an RF beast.

[gusherb]

Today was the worst I've ever seen in area's I frequent in Chicago. All three speed tests were taken at Canal and Roosevelt. AT&T is doing great as usual, (used to be horrific on HSPA back just a bit over a year ago, at this location) and Sprint 3G is slow but steady as always. LTE OTOH? all but completely dead. 

 

I'm contemplating coughing up the 350 plus tax for the Nexus 5 just so I can tap into band 41. (and eventually band 26 as well so I can get LTE in basements haha) 

[gusherb]

On a non network interference poor SNR note, I was curious to why all the NV towers east of i-65 in NW Indiana, in areas such as Lake Station, Portage, Hobart, etc, were all still 3G/800.  It's the only area I can see from looking at the map that is cloaked in widespread 3G only, other areas have a random tower here or a random tower there, but not this part of NW Indiana.  @SprintCare on twitter said they are schedule to be upgraded to 4G in the "upcoming months".  OK, fine, but why the delay for so long, and what so different about this area that has pushed their 4G upgrades out into 2014 when the rest of the metro area has been finished for months?

 

It may have something to do with ILEC's too. AT&T serves west of I65 and Frontier (previously Verizon) serves east of 65.  Michigan City area I believe is AT&T though. 

[Vince]

Today was the worst I've ever seen in area's I frequent in Chicago. All three speed tests were taken at Canal and Roosevelt. AT&T is doing great as usual, (used to be horrific on HSPA back just a bit over a year ago, at this location) and Sprint 3G is slow but steady as always. LTE OTOH? all but completely dead.

 

I'm contemplating coughing up the 350 plus tax for the Nexus 5 just so I can tap into band 41. (and eventually band 26 as well so I can get LTE in basements haha)

I've noticed a drastic decrease in speeds today as well. From the burbs to the south side. I wasn't going to post anything until I saw your post. I'm beginning to feel like too much of a complainer. One must hope that when large areas are being affected with problems like this on certain days that they're tinkering with something. Working on 800 LTE maybe?

[Joeynach]

I've noticed a drastic decrease in speeds today as well. From the burbs to the south side. I wasn't going to post anything until I saw your post. I'm beginning to feel like too much of a complainer. One must hope that when large areas are being affected with problems like this on certain days that they're tinkering with something. Working on 800 LTE maybe?

I can confirm as well, although to be honest Im so used to sub 100K DL speeds on LTE this doesn't set off alarm bells for me.  Typical strong LTE signal, weak SNR, horrid DL speeds.  This is from my office in the Loop, there is an LTE active tower directly across the street from me, I can literally see it on Van Buren.

 

 

[gusherb]

I've noticed a drastic decrease in speeds today as well. From the burbs to the south side. I wasn't going to post anything until I saw your post. I'm beginning to feel like too much of a complainer. One must hope that when large areas are being affected with problems like this on certain days that they're tinkering with something. Working on 800 LTE maybe?

As long as we're paying for the service I think it's quite reasonable to complain, whether we understand what's really going on or not. If you're on LTE and nothing will load at all, that warrants complaining.

 

But instead of complaining, what I would like to know is WHY can't PCS LTE hold up to the traffic it's seeing? The cell density is there so it can't be that. IDK if the question has been officially answered on here yet. We know part of the issue is poor SNR. Is it as simple as too many devices connecting?

 

As I sit here typing this I was prompted to take another speed test. I used to get 8-10 Mbps at this hour from my bedroom at home. Still not bad though.

[Joeynach]

As long as we're paying for the service I think it's quite reasonable to complain, whether we understand what's really going on or not. If you're on LTE and nothing will load at all, that warrants complaining.

 

But instead of complaining, what I would like to know is WHY can't PCS LTE hold up to the traffic it's seeing? The cell density is there so it can't be that. IDK if the question has been officially answered on here yet. We know part of the issue is poor SNR. Is it as simple as too many devices connecting?

 

As I sit here typing this I was prompted to take another speed test. I used to get 8-10 Mbps at this hour from my bedroom at home. Still not bad though. ImageUploadedByTapatalk1384532573.437994.jpg

As far as I am concerned the reigning opinion points to interference from the neighboring block of PCS adjacent to Sprint in the 1900Mhz band, that would be TMobile's new LTE spectrum.

[hayzooos]

Your crazy logic tells me this won't happen.  Of course I want a tri-band LTE phone ASAP, but phones without contract upgrades are $500+.  How many people either will just pay out of the pocket for the phone, or have a contract upgrade coming anytime soon.  I guess its fine for new Sprint subscribers to assume they will have tri-band devices, but you know what, I am 1000x more tech savy than any Sprint customer, understand how much better my LTE could be if I went tri-band, and I still won't be upgrading for at least a year.  I will be sitting here expecting my GS3 with LTE 1900 to perform like LTE, and if it doesn't I will leave Sprint.  My next upgrade is Nov 2014, if the network doesn't work well on 1900 I will have 0% confidence that it would on 800/2600, and I am certainly not spending $500 before then to get the LTE I thought I was getting when I got the GS3 (when NV was announced).

 

Same boat as me. I think my renewal is up sometime around July though as I got the GS3 literally right when it came out. I was sitting on an upgrade for probably 18 months previously to that, but nothing came out that really piqued my interested until the GS3. Anyway, I'm on contract through then so I'll abide by it. If things don't drastically improve, consider this 10+ year Sprint vet jumping ship. Which is a bummer because I've been a big supporter of theirs for years always thinking things would get better...and they just don't.

 

I did notice one thing last night though. While around the Hoffman Estates/Elgin/Schaumburg areas, the speeds are pretty brutal for LTE. I was at the Des Plaines Oasis last night for a few minutes and tethered my Galaxy Note 8 to my phone. LTE was a strong signal and speeds were solid. I didn't run any tests, but I was getting around 5Mbps down through LTE, which is a heck of a lot better than I'm used to seeing, being far less than 1.

[Joeynach]

Same boat as me. I think my renewal is up sometime around July though as I got the GS3 literally right when it came out. I was sitting on an upgrade for probably 18 months previously to that, but nothing came out that really piqued my interested until the GS3. Anyway, I'm on contract through then so I'll abide by it. If things don't drastically improve, consider this 10+ year Sprint vet jumping ship. Which is a bummer because I've been a big supporter of theirs for years always thinking things would get better...and they just don't.

 

I did notice one thing last night though. While around the Hoffman Estates/Elgin/Schaumburg areas, the speeds are pretty brutal for LTE. I was at the Des Plaines Oasis last night for a few minutes and tethered my Galaxy Note 8 to my phone. LTE was a strong signal and speeds were solid. I didn't run any tests, but I was getting around 5Mbps down through LTE, which is a heck of a lot better than I'm used to seeing, being far less than 1.

I am in an identical position.  I have been with sprint since my I got my first cell phone, a startac, when I was 17.  That was over a decade ago.  I had such a high hopes for an all NV, all LTE tower network.  So far its been a dud to me for various technical and what now seem political reasons.  If by the time my contract is up next fall the LTE network that my current device, GS3, can access doesn't improve, I wont be committing to another 2 years and spending another $250 for a hope and prayer with a different device and different network band.  I would be a shame, its very rare to have 10+ year relationship's with one carrier.

 

I have a friend who just got a nexus 5, next time we get together I will do some signal and speed testing side by side to see if there is a real difference.  It be shocked though if his SNR magically goes from 1.6 like what I see to something respectable in the 10-20 range.