Network Vision/LTE - Chicago Market

[DsmIowaGuy]

I saw this last night on a couple tech sites I follow and Sprint releases. Here is a link to where someone posted it into a new topic on the site.

 

http://s4gru.com/index.php?/topic/5169-sprint-turns-up-the-volume-on-3g-and-4g-lte-in-chicago/?p=251309

[kyle_4thousand]

So I'll be returning to Chicagoland next week from Orlando (LTE there is very spotty and because its and Ericcson market, we do not have 1x800 either ) and am curious to witness all this nonsense with degraded SNR values on LTE. My parents house is in the NW burbs (Fox River Grove) and we have decent LTE coverage there. I plan on getting my hands on a Nexus 5 so I can check out some of that TD-LTE as well. Fox River Grove is in a 'Turbo' shaded area on the new coverage maps on Sprint.com as well so I'm rather excited to experience that. I also know that US Cellular has (had) antennas on the water tower in town, and I'm curious to see if Sprint will decide to take that spot since there is no NV equipment in town (only Clearwire TD-LTE/Wimax antennas, which are on the ski jump) 

What do you guys think the chances are that I'll see NV equipment installed on either 1. the existing USC spot on the water tower and/or 2. on the ski jump with the Clearwire equipment?

Also I'll be hunting for LTE800 as well. Hopefully I can find some and confirm its presence in Chicago!

Edited December 13, 2013 by kyle_4thousand

[Vince]

I'm not to familiar with that area. That's a bit of a cruise for me. Now would be a great time to make a small donation, and become a sponsor so that you can see where the towers are, and what they're broadcasting. LTE outside of the city is decent in most spots, and plenty fast for most mobile applications. Coverage is fantastic. You'll probably only notice the horrible speeds if you're in the actual city. Where are you flying in to, midway or ohare?

[kyle_4thousand]

I'm not to familiar with that area. That's a bit of a cruise for me. Now would be a great time to make a small donation, and become a sponsor so that you can see where the towers are, and what they're broadcasting. LTE outside of the city is decent in most spots, and plenty fast for most mobile applications. Coverage is fantastic. You'll probably only notice the horrible speeds if you're in the actual city. Where are you flying in to, midway or ohare?

 

I actually just made a donation.. I made one a month ago but my account never got upgraded, so I just gave it another shot.

 

I'm actually driving in, doing the haul in one day which takes about 18 hours depending on traffic. I've done it several times now and been noticing changes in coverage along the way over the past year. Last time I got LTE most of the way, with the exception of South Georgia, parts of Kentucky and i-65 between Indy and Chicago. I'm expecting it to be even better this time around and hopefully be seeing LTE the whole way.

[Vince]

I actually just made a donation.. I made one a month ago but my account never got upgraded, so I just gave it another shot.

 

I'm actually driving in, doing the haul in one day which takes about 18 hours depending on traffic. I've done it several times now and been noticing changes in coverage along the way over the past year. Last time I got LTE most of the way, with the exception of South Georgia, parts of Kentucky and i-65 between Indy and Chicago. I'm expecting it to be even better this time around and hopefully be seeing LTE the whole way.

Looks like you're upgraded to sponsor level. Head on over to the sponsor forum and load up the map of nv sites complete. It will be a great tool for site hunting along the way and while in Fox River.

[Joeynach]

So I'll be returning to Chicagoland next week from Orlando (LTE there is very spotty and because its and Ericcson market, we do not have 1x800 either ) and am curious to witness all this nonsense with degraded SNR values on LTE. My parents house is in the NW burbs (Fox River Grove) and we have decent LTE coverage there. I plan on getting my hands on a Nexus 5 so I can check out some of that TD-LTE as well. Fox River Grove is in a 'Turbo' shaded area on the new coverage maps on Sprint.com as well so I'm rather excited to experience that. I also know that US Cellular has (had) antennas on the water tower in town, and I'm curious to see if Sprint will decide to take that spot since there is no NV equipment in town (only Clearwire TD-LTE/Wimax antennas, which are on the ski jump) 

 

What do you guys think the chances are that I'll see NV equipment installed on either 1. the existing USC spot on the water tower and/or 2. on the ski jump with the Clearwire equipment?

 

Also I'll be hunting for LTE800 as well. Hopefully I can find some and confirm its presence in Chicago!

If you spend most of your time in the suburbs like Fox River Grove you won't notice much of the sub LTE like LTE performance and poor SNR.  The issues seem to be resigned to the more dense parts of the city and crowded venues like concerts, stadiums, airports, malls, etc.  It's obviously a capacity issue on what I would call a rather narrow 5x5 deployment on LTE for the 3rd largest market in the country.  Not that I have any official declaration, but for all intensive purposes I am calling Chicago (the city proper) a spectrum constrained market. 

 

So in the NW burbs you won't notice much unless you spend some time downtown or frolicking in Lincoln Park or Wicker Park or whatever.  Most folks in the burbs see SNR's in the 15-25 range, most folks in the city see SNR's in the 0-10 range.  If you actually make it to the Loop proper (where I work), its not uncommon for SNR values below 1 during a normal workday and throughput LTE speeds below 20K.  Stay in the burbs and your fine, plenty of capacity out there, less demand, less people, less devices per tower (panel).

[gusherb]

I'm in NWI and still notice the same issues... Have to switch back to 3G often. It's not totally constrained to the city, but it's definitely worse in the city.

[Joeynach]

I'm in NWI and still notice the same issues... Have to switch back to 3G often. It's not totally constrained to the city, but it's definitely worse in the city.

No doubt about it, Im sure there are other trouble spots where we have the same issue, too much demand for LTE, not a wide enough spectrum block for all to access.  Still the Loop has to be the worst, there are plenty of LTE towers, plenty of signal availability at this point in the NV process, sure a few stuck on 3G, but most are LTE active at this point.  The capacity just isn't there.  I don't even bother trying to use my LTE connection for data on my device when in my office in the Loop anymore.  The SNR and speeds have degraded so much over the past 6 months it just not useable.  Thank goodness for office WIFI.  During a typical weekday during normal work hours were in sub dialup range, my device has trouble opening Google, let alone any Apps or streaming content.  I get frequent speed tests below 10K and SNR's below 1 when connected to a strong LTE signal.

 

The whole mess reminds me of our first cable modem in 1999, everyone know they were susceptible to crowding and peak/offpeak demand swings.  I remember during peak hours in the evening that bad boy would slow back down to dialup, but if I went downloading and surfing at 2AM it was blazing fast (for the time).  Now, if I happen to be working late till 8 or 9pm or in the Loop for any reason on the weekends when it's a ghost town...BOOM, my SNR shoots up to 10+ and my speeds recover to at least respectable marks between 500K-1Meg.  Any time normal time where the Loop is crowded and full of work people, it's not useable.  It's gotta be spectrum constraint, it just has to.  That 5x5 PCS carrier that Sprint has deployed their LTE on just has to be too narrow for the demand they have created, especially in extremely dense areas like the Loop or stadiums.  Sprint seems to a victim of its own success in Chicago, I'm sure they thought "if we build it they will come", but I doubt they were worried "if we build it and too many people come it won't correctly for anyone".  Let's face it, at this point almost every Sprint user has an LTE device by now, the majority of which are just 1900LTE based.  Demand has to be outweighing supply here. 

[cdk]

I don't even bother trying to use my LTE connection for data on my device when in my office in the Loop anymore.  The SNR and speeds have degraded so much over the past 6 months it just not useable.

 

It's gotta be spectrum constraint, it just has to.  That 5x5 PCS carrier that Sprint has deployed their LTE on just has to be too narrow...

 

It'll be interesting to see what happens in Chicago when Sprint has complete access to the old USCC frequencies (end of Jan right?) and begins to bring up more LTE on bands 26 & 41...

 

Out of curiousity what speeds are you seeing if you force your phone to 3G/CDMA only?

[Joeynach]

It'll be interesting to see what happens in Chicago when Sprint has complete access to the old USCC frequencies (end of Jan right?) and begins to bring up more LTE on bands 26 & 41...

 

Out of curiousity what speeds are you seeing if you force your phone to 3G/CDMA only?

I agree I am more interested to see what Sprint can do with the USCC spectrum than Sprint Spark.  I have been very loud about my doubts there will be both enough deployment of and enough users with tri band LTE to make a significant (demand offloading) difference.  To me, that USCC spectrum is more important if it is to be used to provide more airwave spectrum to the current LTE on 1900 PCS.

[cdk]

I agree I am more interested to see what Sprint can do with the USCC spectrum than Sprint Spark.  I have been very loud about my doubts there will be both enough deployment of and enough users with tri band LTE to make a significant (demand offloading) difference.  To me, that USCC spectrum is more important if it is to be used to provide more airwave spectrum to the current LTE on 1900 PCS.

 

I imagine they will place probably place at least 2 5Mhz LTE carriers (did they get 10 or 20 Mhz total?) in the USCC spectrum in Chicago. If they did that you would have (eventually); 1 5Mhz carrier in 800, 3 5Mhz carriers in 1900, and probably 3 20Mhz carriers in 2.5/2.6 in your area.

 

In theory that would be a 4x increase in LTE in 800 & 1900 alone.

 

During my travels in Indiana and Michigan last month I came to the conclusion that Sprint needs to refarm some of their spectrum to fit another 5Mhz LTE carrier in PCS. In some areas that probably will be easy (heck they didn't originally want USCC's PCS in St Louis but got it anyway in the Chicago deal) and others it will be a real challenge.

Edited December 17, 2013 by cdk

[Joeynach]

During my travels in Indiana and Michigan last month I came to the conclusion that Sprint needs to refarm some of their spectrum to fit another 5Mhz LTE carrier in PCS. In some areas that probably will be easy (heck they didn't originally want USCC's PCS in St Louis but got it anyway in the Chicago deal) and others it will be a real challenge.

I couldn't agree with this more!

[gusherb]

Once LTE becomes slower then EVDO it seems like it's a good time to refarm. There are certain parts of town where I absolutely must turn off LTE to continue streaming Pandora while I'm driving home. 

 

The site that serves my house also serves a good portion of town too, on another sector. When I'm on the other side of that tower/site the service stinks BAD, go back onto my side with the other sector and it improves dramatically. The other side with the overloaded sector serves nothing but rows and rows of homes for miles. I'm on a more forested less dense side. 

 

I'm still contemplating shelling out the 400 for a Nexus 5 but don't wanna let go of my iPhone 5, or 400 dollars. At this point as badly as it sucks I'm actually willing to put up with this stinky service to keep 400 dollars in my pocket, and a messaging system that I'm locked into pretty tightly. If Crapple doesn't come out with a Tri-band iPhone 6 next year then I'll surely switch back to Android. 

[Vince]

I, too, am heavily vested in iOS. If Apple doesn't introduce band 41, I'll just have to switch carriers in September. I couldn't deal with android, even for the high download speeds.

[Joeynach]

I'm still contemplating shelling out the 400 for a Nexus 5 but don't wanna let go of my iPhone 5, or 400 dollars. At this point as badly as it sucks I'm actually willing to put up with this stinky service to keep 400 dollars in my pocket, and a messaging system that I'm locked into pretty tightly. If Crapple doesn't come out with a Tri-band iPhone 6 next year then I'll surely switch back to Android. 

Thank you thank you thank you.  This is exactly what I have been arguing on this board about Spark and Tri-Band forever now.  That aside from a few Spark groupies and S4GRU power users it makes no sense to assume the general Sprint population is going dump their current LTE devices in favor of the Tri-Band for $400+ (or $500+) out of pocket in order to take advantage of LTE on the 800 and 2500Mhz carriers.....thus offloading LTE demand across spectrum's and easing the crunch on the 1900LTE we all have. It's going to take years of natural attrition of user devices by contract renewal for this to occur.  This is why I can't buy the argument, that Sprint Spark is coming and as soon as its here its going to save Chicago LTE......it will make months if not years for the "saving" process to occur.

[WiWavelength]

I imagine they will place probably place at least 2 5Mhz LTE carriers (did they get 10 or 20 Mhz total?) in the USCC spectrum in Chicago.

 

The acquired USCC PCS B block spectrum is 20 MHz -- also expressed as 10 MHz FDD.  That will not be used in full for LTE with two additional 5 MHz FDD carriers.  No, it will be one additional LTE carrier, the rest left for CDMA2000 for now.

 

AJ

[drock2750]

I'm just glad that PCS LTE is getting a shot in the arm soon...definitely needed. I also would hope that the launch of 800 mhz LTE will offload lots of iphone 5s and 5c users onto that band. I should think that iphone users are the largest group on sprint with access to something other than band 25. 

 

Band 41 is really going to shine when the weather gets warmer and you have huge groups of people outdoors at ball games and street festivals. Marketing is nice, but when you're at the pride parade or the taste of chicago and yours is the only phone among your friends that works worth a damn, then you'll get some good word of mouth about Sprint for a change. 

[Joeynach]

I'm just glad that PCS LTE is getting a shot in the arm soon...definitely needed. I also would hope that the launch of 800 mhz LTE will offload lots of iphone 5s and 5c users onto that band. I should think that iphone users are the largest group on sprint with access to something other than band 25. 

 

Band 41 is really going to shine when the weather gets warmer and you have huge groups of people outdoors at ball games and street festivals. Marketing is nice, but when you're at the pride parade or the taste of chicago and yours is the only phone among your friends that works worth a damn, then you'll get some good word of mouth about Sprint for a change. 

I agree with you on the 800Mhz LTE, that can't come soon enough, b/c as you point out, unlike Tri-Band, there are plenty of Sprint users out there right now with 800Mhz ready LTE devices.  Getting that bad boy up and running could do wonders for alleviating the congestion on the 1900 PCS LTE band, getting those iPhone 5 users over and parked on 800LTE could be huge!

[tommym65]

Only 44 days until the Big USCC Chicago PCS Spectrum Turnover!!!! 

[DsmIowaGuy]

So rumors heard here in Iowa was that 800LTE was going to start being deployed in December '13.  Have you guys seen any deplo yet in Chicagoland?  From my Nov trip it seemed that while signal was pretty great all around the City the bandwith was pretty full - even into way early morning hours. I would think if 800LTE or Bandclass 41 would hurry up that would change a bunch.

 

With all the "hype" in the press releases a week or two ago you would think all this is live today in Chgo.

 

We are getting switched over to 3G Accepted around most of our Metro (Des Moines) last week and this week. They are also turning on 4G along the way on some of the sites that are capable.   Even just the 3G accepted over new equip and backhaul is something we have never seen or too long ago to remember   Can't wait for more NV to roll out   

[mhammett]

I agree with you on the 800Mhz LTE, that can't come soon enough, b/c as you point out, unlike Tri-Band, there are plenty of Sprint users out there right now with 800Mhz ready LTE devices. Getting that bad boy up and running could do wonders for alleviating the congestion on the 1900 PCS LTE band, getting those iPhone 5 users over and parked on 800LTE could be huge!

want all devices to be on as high of frequency as they can, stepping down when conditions require. This keeps bandwidth available for people in extreme RF conditions.

 

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk

 

 

[Deval]

I, too, am heavily vested in iOS. If Apple doesn't introduce band 41, I'll just have to switch carriers in September. I couldn't deal with android, even for the high download speeds.

 

You'd leave Sprint before Apple?

 

 

[Vince]

You'd leave Sprint before Apple?

 

Indeed. I'm not a big fan of the android os. I'm giving it 9 months to see Sprint's sense of urgency in Chicago. I need to see LTE 800 rapidly deployed and to see if it fixes any issues with data speeds, or if I'll even be able to use it. I hope it doesn't end up being like 1x800 voice on the iPhone where it's only used when there is 0 pcs signal. I also want to see them not put the USCC spectrum on the back burner and release some kind of statement like: "USCC spectrum will be implemented within the next 2 years." See ya. I'm impressed with the grand scale of network vision, but on the other hand, I really don't care about the rest of the country. I want to see my home area working as it should. I just want LTE speeds greater than 1mbps, and right now, I only get that near my home. So yes, I'm loyal to apple, and at the moment, loyal to Sprint. We shall see where Sprint stands in Chicago in 9 months.

[lilotimz]

Indeed. I'm not a big fan of the android os. I'm giving it 9 months to see Sprint's sense of urgency in Chicago. I need to see LTE 800 rapidly deployed and to see if it fixes any issues with data speeds, or if I'll even be able to use it. I hope it doesn't end up being like 1x800 voice on the iPhone where it's only used when there is 0 pcs signal. I also want to see them not put the USCC spectrum on the back burner and release some kind of statement like: "USCC spectrum will be implemented within the next 2 years." See ya. I'm impressed with the grand scale of network vision, but on the other hand, I really don't care about the rest of the country. I want to see my home area working as it should. I just want LTE speeds greater than 1mbps, and right now, I only get that near my home. So yes, I'm loyal to apple, and at the moment, loyal to Sprint. We shall see where Sprint stands in Chicago in 9 months.

 

So you're one of those people... how fascinating. 

[Deval]

Indeed. I'm not a big fan of the android os. I'm giving it 9 months to see Sprint's sense of urgency in Chicago. I need to see LTE 800 rapidly deployed and to see if it fixes any issues with data speeds, or if I'll even be able to use it. I hope it doesn't end up being like 1x800 voice on the iPhone where it's only used when there is 0 pcs signal. I also want to see them not put the USCC spectrum on the back burner and release some kind of statement like: "USCC spectrum will be implemented within the next 2 years." See ya. I'm impressed with the grand scale of network vision, but on the other hand, I really don't care about the rest of the country. I want to see my home area working as it should. I just want LTE speeds greater than 1mbps, and right now, I only get that near my home. So yes, I'm loyal to apple, and at the moment, loyal to Sprint. We shall see where Sprint stands in Chicago in 9 months.

 

Ah, ok.

 

I guess it makes sense, hope the grass is greener, in the event the new network isn't working for you.