Network Vision/LTE - Chicago Market

[tongboy]

I don't know how anyone could think the same frequency on all sectors was a good idea. Self-interference is guaranteed and LTE needs a comparatively huge SNR.

 

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It would make handoffs a bit more "exciting" though...

 

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[WiWavelength]

Oh, well, then there's your source of interference, everything else on the network!

  

I don't know how anyone could think the same frequency on all sectors was a good idea. Self-interference is guaranteed and LTE needs a comparatively huge SNR.

I understand that you consider yourself something of an expert from operating a WISP. But the engineers, physicists, and mathematicians involved with Qualcomm, 3GPP, IEEE, etc., probably have the upper hand on you. Unity frequency reuse cellular networks have been in operation for nearly 20 years. Single frequency LTE is not some unforeseen failure.

 

AJ

[mhammett]

  

I understand that you consider yourself something of an expert from operating a WISP. But the engineers, physicists, and mathematicians involved with Qualcomm, 3GPP, IEEE, etc., probably have the upper hand on you. Unity frequency reuse cellular networks have been in operation for nearly 20 years. Single frequency LTE is not some unforeseen failure.

 

AJ

 

The WISP industry also considers me an expert as I was honored at their annual awards ceremony last month for my contributions to the industry. I'll reach out to some of the vendors in our space that sell LTE gear and see what they say.

 

LTE is minimally different than WiMAX. WiMAX was developed for my industry.

[Vince]

So, I've noticed that Sprint changed their coverage maps to include "spark." We now have spark best, spark fair, LTE best, LTE fair, and hash lines indicating spark turbo. I'm confused. I'm guessing the spark coverage will be 1900/800 LTE and the turbo must be 2600? I see this confusing people. My area is spark best, and so is most of downtown, except the city has the hash marks for turbo.

[Dkoellerwx]

So, I've noticed that Sprint changed their coverage maps to include "spark." We now have spark best, spark fair, LTE best, LTE fair, and hash lines indicating spark turbo. I'm confused. I'm guessing the spark coverage will be 1900/800 LTE and the turbo must be 2600? I see this confusing people. My area is spark best, and so is most of downtown, except the city has the hash marks for turbo.

 

Spark still only represents Band 41, and we assume Trubo to be areas that have Band 41 connected to enhanced backahul that can support the 50-70Mbps speeds.

[Vince]

Spark still only represents Band 41, and we assume Trubo to be areas that have Band 41 connected to enhanced backahul that can support the 50-70Mbps speeds.

Then I should really do a 14-day test run on a zing hotspot, because there is a ton of "yellow spark" coverage around here. More than the b41 maps would suggest. I curse apple for not giving me triband this year.

[Dkoellerwx]

Then I should really do a 14-day test run on a zing hotspot, because there is a ton of "yellow spark" coverage around here. More than the b41 maps would suggest. I curse apple for not giving me triband this year.

 

As with all the Sprint maps, it looks a little overstated. It shows "spark" coverage where there was never WiMax coverage, so I don't know if I believe it all.

 

Sprint hasn't exactly been clear on the exact meaning of Spark, especially since on new devices (from what I've seen) they show the "Spark" symbol any time it's connected to LTE. However, since it is Spark that they claim has the highest speeds, I assume it only refers to Band 41. However, marketing being what it is, they may have changed that.

[Vince]

Yeah, it may just be another marketing ploy. But to have separate "spark" and "LTE" colors probably means that you're right about it being band 41.

[Joeynach]

Then I should really do a 14-day test run on a zing hotspot, because there is a ton of "yellow spark" coverage around here. More than the b41 maps would suggest. I curse apple for not giving me triband this year.

I asked a friend of mine with a N5 to do some speed tests from his office in the Loop the other day to see if the Tri Band devices are pulling down Spark.  He is at Monroe and State and wasn't getting anything different than us, no B41 Spark, just slow LTE in the 50-100K download speeds mid day.  So I'm not sure what those new Sprint maps correlate to if we can't actually tie out the Band41 signal to tri band devices, and thus increased LTE speeds.

[digiblur]

I asked a friend of mine with a N5 to do some speed tests from his office in the Loop the other day to see if the Tri Band devices are pulling down Spark. He is at Monroe and State and wasn't getting anything different than us, no B41 Spark, just slow LTE in the 50-100K download speeds mid day. So I'm not sure what those new Sprint maps correlate to if we can't actually tie out the Band41 signal to tri band devices, and thus increased LTE speeds.

It was stated the update is coming to those phones in a few months to enable Spark usage.

[weatheremperor]

It was stated the update is coming to those phones in a few months to enable Spark usage.

Has a specific date for the update been announced yet?

 

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[UnlimitedDataIsInBeta]

Has a specific date for the update been announced yet?

 

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Last I heard was Q1 2014. Heard this from an internal memo.

 

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[ChiWestLoop]

The speed issues I believe have to do with capacity as I ran speed tests around the Loop, River North and West Loop over the long weekend (downtown is deserted on Thanksgiving weekend) and I was pulling pretty decent speeds all over the area. I was even pulling >3MB DL and UL over on the corner of Randolph and Clark (theater district). And what a difference a couple of days make. I ran the same speed test today on the same area and I was pulling less than 1MB. The difference? A lot of people in the Loop driving/walking or at work.

[Joeynach]

The speed issues I believe have to do with capacity as I ran speed tests around the Loop, River North and West Loop over the long weekend (downtown is deserted on Thanksgiving weekend) and I was pulling pretty decent speeds all over the area. I was even pulling >3MB DL and UL over on the corner of Randolph and Clark (theater district). And what a difference a couple of days make. I ran the same speed test today on the same area and I was pulling less than 1MB. The difference? A lot of people in the Loop driving/walking or at work.

I tried similar when the Loop and other city neighborhoods emptied out at various points of the holiday weekend.  I too saw improved speeds and improved SNR when the Loop and Lincoln Park turned into Ghost town's as ppl fled to the suburbs for the Holiday.  I didn't see speeds as high as you in the Loop per say, but I did get solid LTE speeds in Lincoln Park, Old Town, Wicker Park on empty days; Wed Night, Thursday, Friday when I went out.  To me there is no doubt the poor SNR and poor Speeds are caused by lack of capacity, and I am implying spectrum shortage, not backhaul.

[ChiWestLoop]

I tried similar when the Loop and other city neighborhoods emptied out at various points of the holiday weekend.  I too saw improved speeds and improved SNR when the Loop and Lincoln Park turned into Ghost town's as ppl fled to the suburbs for the Holiday.  I didn't see speeds as high as you in the Loop per say, but I did get solid LTE speeds in Lincoln Park, Old Town, Wicker Park on empty days; Wed Night, Thursday, Friday when I went out.  To me there is no doubt the poor SNR and poor Speeds are caused by lack of capacity, and I am implying spectrum shortage, not backhaul.

Let's see how we fare as soon as Sprint incorporates USCC's spectrum in January. On a sidenote I'm reading the New York City thread and everybody's getting amazing speeds all over Manhattan. I'm so jealeous!!!!!

Edited December 2, 2013 by ChiWestLoop

[Joeynach]

Let's see how we fare as soon as Sprint incorporates USCC's spectrum in January. On a sidenote I'm reading the New York City thread and everybody's getting amazing speeds all over Manhattan. I'm so jealeous!!!!!

Really wow, the NV sites complete map has half of NYC still covered in 3G only.  I also read the Verizon forum on NYC, tons of low LTE speed complaints.  Seems like Verizon has extreme spectrum shortages in NYC.

[Vince]

Let's see how we fare as soon as Sprint incorporates USCC's spectrum in January. On a sidenote I'm reading the New York City thread and everybody's getting amazing speeds all over Manhattan. I'm so jealeous!!!!!

Nobody knows for sure how or when Sprint will use that spectrum once USCC is shut down. I doubt anything will happen promptly.

[Joeynach]

Nobody knows for sure how or when Sprint will use that spectrum once USCC is shut down. I doubt anything will happen promptly.

Well there have been no indications from Sprint or any rumors from people on this board that anything substantial will happen in the immediate time period following the USCC shutdown on January 31.  Just one guy said he thought Q1, pretty vague, but that's all we have to go on for now.

[Vince]

Well there have been no indications from Sprint or any rumors from people on this board that anything substantial will happen in the immediate time period following the USCC shutdown on January 31. Just one guy said he thought Q1, pretty vague, but that's all we have to go on for now.

Although, Sprint knows the spectrum problems in Chicago and might want to expedite the process instead of sitting on it. They want this network to be on par with the other companies to gain/retain subs.

[bitslizer]

I was at Clinton and Monroe this morning on my One Max and I pulled > 20mbps download, confirmed via ##DEBUG# that i was on band 41, signal was not great though, under 50% (-100db ish?)as reported by Network signal info app

[Joeynach]

Is there any technical way to physically see and confirm over saturated airlinks.  We know the poor SNR is likely the cause of too many LTE devices trying to access to few LTE airwaves to the towers on 1900 PCS G Block, but is there a technical indicator for this.  Some sort of tool or device that can be used to say ahhh yep, I see the airwave frequencies are jammed up with data requests........

[DsmIowaGuy]

Any LTE being rolled out yet in Chgo ?    I had heard they were supposed to start turning on 800LTE this Month in areas they could.  I would think that could help spread things out a bit.

[bitslizer]

Is there any technical way to physically see and confirm over saturated airlinks.  We know the poor SNR is likely the cause of too many LTE devices trying to access to few LTE airwaves to the towers on 1900 PCS G Block, but is there a technical indicator for this.  Some sort of tool or device that can be used to say ahhh yep, I see the airwave frequencies are jammed up with data requests........

 

Yes.... have a Device with Spark connect to Band 41, another device without spark connect to Band 25, confirm both are on the same tower, run a speed test on both device, if you are pulling 10-30mbps on the Spark device and like 300kbps (typical of what I observed the past 2 days when my One Max is on band 25 in downtown chicago) on the none-spark, there's your evidence.

[Joeynach]

Yes.... have a Device with Spark connect to Band 41, another device without spark connect to Band 25, confirm both are on the same tower, run a speed test on both device, if you are pulling 10-30mbps on the Spark device and like 300kbps (typical of what I observed the past 2 days when my One Max is on band 25 in downtown chicago) on the none-spark, there's your evidence.

Band 25 is 1900 PCS Block G and Band 41 is 2600Mhz or 800Mhz spectrum block?

[UnlimitedDataIsInBeta]

Band 25 is 1900 PCS Block G and Band 41 is 2600Mhz or 800Mhz spectrum block?

800 B26 , FDD

1900 B 25 , FDD

2500 B41 , TDD

 

 

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