Breaking Band: Tri-band LTE / eCSFB issues thread

[lilg740]

lilG, glad you got your phone. In my unscientific testing its the towers that you have as yellow on your map that the tri band phones are having issues with. Purple ones are fine.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

I didn't get mine. That was from Nrbelex's post on the market thread.

[Nrbelex]

In re lilg740's post above, that was me.

 

Device: Nexus 5

Issues: None - Quality LTE signal

Location: St. Louis, MO (Central West End area)

[halcyoncmdr]

Sprint eCSFB Gap Issue Legal Approved Talking Points:

 

eCSFB Gap Talking Points

 

Sprint’s Network Vision Plan (Spectrum)

• Sprint’s Network Vision plan includes access to three spectrum bands, (1.9, 800 and 2.5), and LTE handsets with a single radio.
• Access to diverse spectrum assets allows Sprint to maximize capacity and coverage.

Current Sprint LTE Devices (2 Radios)

• Current Sprint LTE devices are Simultaneous Voice and LTE (SVLTE)—using two radios, one for voice and one for LTE data. This allows CDMA calls and LTE to operate at the same time.
• Dual Radio SVLTE devices can degrade the user’s quality of experience – two antennas may slow throughput at the cell edge and reduce battery life.

Future Sprint LTE Devices (1 Radio)

• CSFB and eCSFB (Circuit Switch Fall Back and enhanced Circuit Switch Fall Back) are features that enable single radio functionality in the handset.
  • eCSFB Benefits:
    • With eCSFB implementation, Sprint will be able to offer fast LTE data speeds and 3G voice supported on single radio devices. This provides a more cost effective option for Sprint’s long-term business plans to support additional spectrum bands.
    • eCSFB is expected to improve handset battery life compared to SVLTE.

eCSFB Gap Issue – What you Need to know:

• Smart devices require eCSFB to “fall back” to 3G to accept a voice call if the user is connected to the LTE network.
• All markets need to be upgraded with eCSFB capability.
• eCSFB Gaps are only in non-incumbent markets where a site has 4G LTE and no 3G upgrade.

4G LTE integration with 3G is different by OEM type:

• Incumbent markets – LTE 4G only sites can communicate with either legacy 3G or NV 3G sites.
• Non-Incumbent – LTE 4G can only communicate with NV 3G sites; so individual sites need both NV upgrades.

LTE devices – Customer Experience

• When 4G LTE is deployed in a non-incumbent market on sites without upgrade to 3G service, there is a gap.
  • Existing Devices – No Impact
  • eCSFB Devices – Phone becomes 3G only device

Non-Launched Markets

• No coverage visible on Sprint.com maps but different experience for users with existing devices versus new eCSFB devices.

Launched Markets

• Sprint coverage tools will display LTE coverage. For new LTE smart device users this could be confusing since they would expect LTE and 3G coverage with the device they purchased, but would not experience LTE until the 3G network is upgraded.

Mitigation plan:

 

New LTE Markets

• When locking new LTE markets for announcement/ launch, eCSFB deployment status will be a factor in the analysis. New LTE markets will not be announced unless the eCSFB gap risk is low.
• Complete the build quickly in eCSFB gap impacted markets.

Acronyms

• CSFB – Circuit Switch Fall Back. It allows for single radio devices. (ERC)
• eCSFB – Enhanced Circuit Switch Fall Back Next generation CSFB. (ALU, STA)
• SVLTE – Simultaneous Voice & LTE. Allows CDMA calls and LTE to operate simultaneously
• Incumbent – An incumbent market is one in which the OEM stays the same as before Network Vision
• Non-incumbent – A market in which the OEM changes as well as all of the equipment.
• ERC - Ericsson
• ALU – Alcatel Lucent
• STA - Samsung
• NV – Network Vision
• OEM – Original Equipment Manufacturer (ERC, ALU, STA)
• Gap – 4G LTE on sites without appropriate upgrades to 3G service
• 1.9 GHz Spectrum - Provides initial capacity and coverage for voice and data services.
• 800 MHz Spectrum - Improves coverage and in-building penetration for all services.
• 2.5 GHz Spectrum - Increases data capacity to support higher data demands and more users.

[lilotimz]

 

Sprint eCSFB Gap Issue Legal Approved Talking Points:

 

eCSFB Gap Talking Points

 

Sprint’s Network Vision Plan (Spectrum)

• Sprint’s Network Vision plan includes access to three spectrum bands, (1.9, 800 and 2.5), and LTE handsets with a single radio.
• Access to diverse spectrum assets allows Sprint to maximize capacity and coverage.

Current Sprint LTE Devices (2 Radios)

• Current Sprint LTE devices are Simultaneous Voice and LTE (SVLTE)—using two radios, one for voice and one for LTE data. This allows CDMA calls and LTE to operate at the same time.
• Dual Radio SVLTE devices can degrade the user’s quality of experience – two antennas may slow throughput at the cell edge and reduce battery life.

Future Sprint LTE Devices (1 Radio)

• CSFB and eCSFB (Circuit Switch Fall Back and enhanced Circuit Switch Fall Back) are features that enable single radio functionality in the handset.
  • eCSFB Benefits:
    • With eCSFB implementation, Sprint will be able to offer fast LTE data speeds and 3G voice supported on single radio devices. This provides a more cost effective option for Sprint’s long-term business plans to support additional spectrum bands.
    • eCSFB is expected to improve handset battery life compared to SVLTE.

eCSFB Gap Issue – What you Need to know:

• Smart devices require eCSFB to “fall back” to 3G to accept a voice call if the user is connected to the LTE network.
• All markets need to be upgraded with eCSFB capability.
• eCSFB Gaps are only in non-incumbent markets where a site has 4G LTE and no 3G upgrade.

4G LTE integration with 3G is different by OEM type:

• Incumbent markets – LTE 4G only sites can communicate with either legacy 3G or NV 3G sites.
• Non-Incumbent – LTE 4G can only communicate with NV 3G sites; so individual sites need both NV upgrades.

LTE devices – Customer Experience

• When 4G LTE is deployed in a non-incumbent market on sites without upgrade to 3G service, there is a gap.
  • Existing Devices – No Impact
  • eCSFB Devices – Phone becomes 3G only device

Non-Launched Markets

• No coverage visible on Sprint.com maps but different experience for users with existing devices versus new eCSFB devices.

Launched Markets

• Sprint coverage tools will display LTE coverage. For new LTE smart device users this could be confusing since they would expect LTE and 3G coverage with the device they purchased, but would not experience LTE until the 3G network is upgraded.

Mitigation plan:

 

New LTE Markets

• When locking new LTE markets for announcement/ launch, eCSFB deployment status will be a factor in the analysis. New LTE markets will not be announced unless the eCSFB gap risk is low.
• Complete the build quickly in eCSFB gap impacted markets.

Acronyms

• CSFB – Circuit Switch Fall Back. It allows for single radio devices. (ERC)
• eCSFB – Enhanced Circuit Switch Fall Back Next generation CSFB. (ALU, STA)
• SVLTE – Simultaneous Voice & LTE. Allows CDMA calls and LTE to operate simultaneously
• Incumbent – An incumbent market is one in which the OEM stays the same as before Network Vision
• Non-incumbent – A market in which the OEM changes as well as all of the equipment.
• ERC - Ericsson
• ALU – Alcatel Lucent
• STA - Samsung
• NV – Network Vision
• OEM – Original Equipment Manufacturer (ERC, ALU, STA)
• Gap – 4G LTE on sites without appropriate upgrades to 3G service
• 1.9 GHz Spectrum - Provides initial capacity and coverage for voice and data services.
• 800 MHz Spectrum - Improves coverage and in-building penetration for all services.
• 2.5 GHz Spectrum - Increases data capacity to support higher data demands and more users.

 

 

 

 

New LTE Markets

• When locking new LTE markets for announcement/ launch, eCSFB deployment status will be a factor in the analysis. New LTE markets will not be announced unless the eCSFB gap risk is low.
• Complete the build quickly in eCSFB gap impacted markets.

 

Whelp! Guess we found out why Samsung markets have been lacking in acceptances...

[jeffcarp]

How long until some scumbag lawyer files suit for lack of ability to connect to 4G in a previously announced market?

[lilotimz]

Am able to get LTE if I force my Nexus 5 into LTE only mode which makes it not contact the legacy Nortel equipment (Samsung market). 

[Redx]

LG G2

Los Angeles, Ca 90018

Have Lte some places but ive connected throughout my area on my note 2 not on my G2 especially at home only connected to one tower around me and there are a few i used to connect with lte

[lil_jimmy_norton]

Lg G2. Lexington Ky, (launched market) No LTE in most places. Occasionally will stay on LTE be seems to be based on location.

[transitwatch889]

Nexus 5 lte/cdma setting enabled band 26/41 So I am in NYC coming out my job connected to LTE leaving my job on wall st which I do believe are new sites.coming up back home to the Bronx have been stuck on evdo on 125th manhattan ehrpd back in the Bronx with out switching back to LTE at all... As I post has been like this for 30 mins again very strong 3g performance....

Edited November 10, 2013 by transitwatch889

[shifted]

How long until some scumbag lawyer files suit for lack of ability to connect to 4G in a previously announced market?

 

Hopefully never but Sprint absolutely has to get it working in areas that have officailly launched.  The areas that haven't launched with people using LTE right now can complain but really the LTE isn't official yet so there isn't much we can do about that even though it doesn't seem "fair". 

[KD8JBF]

Hopefully never but Sprint absolutely has to get it working in areas that have officailly launched. The areas that haven't launched with people using LTE right now can complain but really the LTE isn't official yet so there isn't much we can do about that even though it doesn't seem "fair".

No doubt that sprint will be putting fire under the asses of the nv vendors....

 

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk

 

 

[The Dave]

Device: LG G2

Market: Jacksonville

NV Vendor : Ericsson

Zip code :32092

LTE signal: -99 to -110 dbm

SPEEDTEST: 16-29 MBPS

 

Able to connect to LTE on a tower that is 4g only. My normal 3G/4G by my house doesn't connect. Drove up and down SR16 and US1 in St Augustine with no LTE.

Drove up I95 and I295 East to Jacksonville with no LTE. No LTE at the Avenues and no LTE near Town Center. The entire area is purple in Sensorly and sponsor map shows all towers with no ability to connect as 3G/4G.

 

Tried switching from Global to CDMA/LTE, but it always switches back to Global.

[Redx]

something that I've noticed there is a Wimax tower nearby. I get a wireless data connection error sometimes when it tries to connect to Lte. lte and 4glte will pop up then go directly back to 3g

[lafester]

obviously these phones were planned long ago and nv was expected to be further along. at this point they had no choice but to release them and hope for the best. they should have been upfront with everyone and put out a press release before launch so people in the affected areas could avoid purchase. keeping quiet about it is going to hurt them.

[nexgencpu]

Nexus 5 16GB 

 

Bronx NY 10453, NYC 10018

 

Connects to LTE and handsoff from tower to tower without issues,

 

Once I lose LTE and it falls back to 3G, will not reconnect to LTE until toggling airplane mode.

 

Update: All of a sudden my speeds are atrocious 1mb down/3mb up on LTE, -80dBm

 

(typically between 5mb-15mb sec)

 

Update 2:speeds seem to be back to normal..

[conquereddroiduser]

So if I'm understanding this correctly, non-incumbent markets are only the ones with different legacy and nv vendors.

Would this list be what would have that info?

 

http://www.s4gru.com/index.php?/topic/2120-Listing-of-Legacy-Vendors/Network-Vision-Vendors-by-Market

 

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk

 

 

[Taxman]

Handset:  Nexus 5 32GB Black Google Play Store

LTE connectivity:  Can't connect unless forced in engineering screen. 3G is strong. (Galaxy Nexus and HTC Evo 4G LTE connect just fine.)

Location:  Waukesha, WI 53186 and Milwaukee, WI 53214 (I've only been able to test on purple towers "4G only")

[shifted]

So if I'm understanding this correctly, non-incumbent markets are only the ones with different legacy and nv vendors.

Would this list be what would have that info?

 

http://www.s4gru.com/index.php?/topic/2120-Listing-of-Legacy-Vendors/Network-Vision-Vendors-by-Market

 

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk

 

Since you are a sponsor go to the NV Completed map.  Look for the purple icons.  Those are your trouble sites I believe. At least that is what the data we are providing is trying to prove right now.

[lordsutch]

Handset: Nexus 5 32GB Black Google Play Store, no mods

LTE connectivity: fine, better coverage than EVO 4G LTE; no trouble with eCSFB for voice or SMS.

Locations: Macon, GA 31206, 31210, 31216; Warner Robins, GA 31093; Byron, GA; Centerville, GA [Ericsson NV, Georgia market]

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

[Ascertion]

Device: LG G2

Market: Jacksonville

NV Vendor : Ericsson

Zip code :32092

LTE signal: -99 to -110 dbm

SPEEDTEST: 16-29 MBPS

 

Able to connect to LTE on a tower that is 4g only. My normal 3G/4G by my house doesn't connect. Drove up and down SR16 and US1 in St Augustine with no LTE.

Drove up I95 and I295 East to Jacksonville with no LTE. No LTE at the Avenues and no LTE near Town Center. The entire area is purple in Sensorly and sponsor map shows all towers with no ability to connect as 3G/4G.

 

Tried switching from Global to CDMA/LTE, but it always switches back to Global.

This is my setup except I have 4G at my local 3G/4G site. Everywhere else is pretty much nonexistent.

 

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk

 

 

[WiWavelength]

obviously these phones were planned long ago and nv was expected to be further along. at this point they had no choice but to release them and hope for the best. they should have been upfront with everyone and put out a press release before launch so people in the affected areas could avoid purchase. keeping quiet about it is going to hurt them.

 

No, you do not tell the sharks that blood is in the water.

 

Would T-Mobile's John Legere actually tell small market people that they are going to be stuck on GSM for years while their large market counterparts have been updated to W-CDMA then LTE?  Nope.

 

The same holds true here.  I feel confident that Sprint was aware of the eCSFB issue but hoped that it would affect as few subs as possible, further knowing that the issue would subside as deployment progress continues.

 

Mitigation.  Hope for the best.  Sprint has little else that it can do at this juncture.

 

AJ

[Yuhfhrh]

I'm starting to realize why Samsung wouldn't have wanted their Note 3 to be triband lol

[mikejeep]

Since you are a sponsor go to the NV Completed map.  Look for the purple icons.  Those are your trouble sites I believe. At least that is what the data we are providing is trying to prove right now.

 

I interpreted it to mean the purple (4G only) sites on the sponsors map would cause problems ONLY if the vendors in that market do not match in the Legacy Vendors thread..

 

-Mike

[DaQue]

Looks like they were thinking eCSFB would be in NV 2.0  as quoted in the earning call back

 in April. http://s4gru.com/index.php?/topic/3641-sprint-2013-first-quarter-results/&do=findComment&comment=131676

 

So I guess we are really finishing NV 1.0 and have NV 2.0 starting.

 

Quote

And we talked about Network Vision 2.0, I think there is a probably a couple of things out to think about. Number one, we didn’t initially contemplate 800 LTE when we were initially doing Network Vision and we got the standard band 26 into the standards last year. So this year we are going to actually put LTE in the 800 and help our inbuilding. So this is kind of one of the Network Vision 2.0. Additionally, and to an earlier question about the bands, for band 41, for 2.5 and being able to utilize and work with Clearwire. That was not initially contemplated in the Network Vision 1.0 in this way. And we will be, as Dan said, introducing devices this year that will be able to fall back from 2.5 to 800 to 1.9 and that’s required us to put them both the new standards in but also ECSFD for fallback. So those are just two of the things in the Network Vision 2.0 and there are others when I presume you guys come out and visit we can get into more detail about the specifics. But that’s what 2.0 is all about.

[The Dave]

 

It seems that, after looking at the map, I haven't been able to connect to LTE on either 3G/4G or 4G only towers. So far, I have only seen LTE at my house and my wife had it inside the Avenues Mall and inside Tijuana Flats on the south side of Jacksonville.