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T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion V2


lilotimz

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Honestly, the assumption you have that PCS is limited for Sprint is really causing me to scratch my head.

 

For example, Sprint has 15mhz of PCS B block here in NYC, along with 5mhz of G Block. The 15mhz is contiguous, so in theory, combined with the 3 20mhz LTE carriers that Sprint can deploy in the B41 2.5ghz range, they can deploy a 15x15 B25 FDD LTE network combined with the TDD 2.5ghz network and the 5x5 FDD LTE network using B26.

I just now answered this in the Marcelo thread.

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T-Mobile has LTE in Chester now, a month before the deadline, but I haven't seen any organic expansion here yet. There's certainly places that it is needed. See Sparta?

 

40ca2aaaba57c5028958d8ed7e9bf900.jpg

 

No service all the way through. Right now, that town is solely serviced by Dumb and Dumber.

 

The 1900 LTE covers better than I thought it would but it's still an area where TMo needs low band. Sprint has that. If only they'd Project Ocean here...

 

 

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The 1900 LTE covers better than I thought it would but it's still an area where TMo needs low band. Sprint has that. If only they'd Project Ocean here...

 

I wonder if Sprint named Project Ocean after Billy Ocean.  When the going gets tough...

 

 

AJ

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Doesn't seem like TMo has a lot of PCS there. At least for supporting three technologies. Though maybe TMo is already planning for 5x5 on PCS?

I may have read somewhere that T-Mobile will possibly re farm pcs next year in Chicago to include a 5x5mhz LTE carrier, and aggregate it with B4 for a total of 20x20mhz. That's about all they can do here for the foreseeable future.

 

 

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Back on track/topic though, with T-Mobile now actively repurposing Metro spectrum for LTE, where do they stand on coverage expansion? I know our friends over on Fierce love to discuss how they are going to grow organically, but I'm curious if there have been any confirmations of the fact.

 

I haven't seen any new organic coverage to date. Not a single site. However...

 

- They have added B12 to many sites here, and it's surprisingly fast.

- They have been very aggressive in converting EDGE to LTE (less than 4 sites remain here).

- Their GMO rural LTE is surprisingly fast, and coverage is much better than I expected. You can't tell it's GMO from the service quality in any way.

- They have integrated most of the MetroPCS sites into the network, and added lots of new backhaul to all of them (this includes new coverage for T-Mobile users in some areas, and extra site density in some cities, especially in Grand Rapids).

 

In my humble opinion, T-Mobile is fixing their freeway / suburban problems in Michigan faster than Sprint is fixing their urban problems in Michigan. So, normally I wouldn't fault them for the coverage -- I can see tons of work happening, it's all really great work, and it's happening really quickly.

 

---

 

But T-Mobile did promise to cover all these new areas by end of year 2015, and despite all this work, I still think there is a 95% chance they won't actually finish by that deadline. (As almost everyone predicted when they announced it).

 

There's still roughly 16,000 square miles of new coverage they promised, just in Michigan alone. None of that is live yet.  Not to mention all the other states worth of new coverage they promised

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I found a new TMo tower location here in my area.  Used to be only Sprint.  Added some coverage, but not much.  The tower location is actually quiet horrible, I am surprised that TMo even put on it and not a different tower.  There is some organic new coverage off of it, but it is very minimal. 

 

Kinda surprised at TMo configuration.  Still 4 antenna per sector (no 700A).  TMo rep told me it was HSPA AWS, PCS EDGE, PCS HSPA, LTE AWS.  12 antennas per tower.  Unlike the other TMo towers in my area where each antenna is different from the other on each sector, this tower the two outer were the tall fat white antennas and the two inner are short skinny grey antenna.  Hopefully they add a few more towers because I where I live it is a deadzone that is surrounded by TMo coverage. 

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On GMO coverage in Chester on T-Mobile LTE: I live clear on the other side of town from the tower and am at 3 bars outside, 1-2 bars inside and there's a few places in the house I would fall back to EDGE. Then again that's probably not that uncommon for T-Mobile areas with no low band presence. With WiFi Calling, that's not an issue, but if you're in a place without access to landline broadband, that is something you would be well advised to think about. Otherwise Chester coverage is surprisingly decent, save for the places where coverage holes are induced by terrain, which is true even on Verizon here.

 

 

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I haven't seen any new organic coverage to date. Not a single site. However...

 

- They have added B12 to many sites here, and it's surprisingly fast.

- They have been very aggressive in converting EDGE to LTE (less than 4 sites remain here).

- Their GMO rural LTE is surprisingly fast, and coverage is much better than I expected. You can't tell it's GMO from the service quality in any way.

- They have integrated most of the MetroPCS sites into the network, and added lots of new backhaul to all of them (this includes new coverage for T-Mobile users in some areas, and extra site density in some cities, especially in Grand Rapids).

 

In my humble opinion, T-Mobile is fixing their freeway / suburban problems in Michigan faster than Sprint is fixing their urban problems in Michigan. So, normally I wouldn't fault them for the coverage -- I can see tons of work happening, it's all really great work, and it's happening really quickly.

 

---

 

But T-Mobile did promise to cover all these new areas by end of year 2015, and despite all this work, I still think there is a 95% chance they won't actually finish by that deadline. (As almost everyone predicted when they announced it).

 

There's still roughly 16,000 square miles of new coverage they promised, just in Michigan alone. None of that is live yet.  Not to mention all the other states worth of new coverage they promised

 

Interesting, so the question becomes is what their 700A deployment strategy is? Are they going to do a retrofit/rip replace and add the 700A panels and cards, or just cherry pick the sites to deploy it on?

 

Speeds are good because there are not that many people on it right now.

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I hate Tmo-News, but do open it up every so often.

 

http://www.tmonews.com/2015/06/21gb-soft-cap-quietly-added-to-t-mobiles-unlimited-4g-lte-simple-choice-plans/

 

21GB "soft cap" put on unlimied plans. Kind of interesting...I think T-Mobile is realizing their network is suffering from speed tests and unlimited data.

 

Edit:

 

This is a comment on TmoNews

 


They really shouldn’t be claiming Unlimited 4G LTE when they have a “Soft” Cap in place now. My phone is my source for Internet/work/fun, etc, there was no need for me to have Internet at home because of my Unlimited T-Mobile service. I had to call customer service and complain because my internet/downloads are so slow. Buffers like crazy trying to watch a 1 minute video. I’m currently at 25GB.

 

That is just mind blowing. This is why they can't offer truly unlimited data, because of idiots like this.

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Ah interesting, so what happened to their licensed PCS/AWS holdings?

They still have their other spectrum locally. They will use AWS for capacity and 700 for coverage. Exactly what AT&T and VZW do here too. Tmo will likely space their network for 700 though. Whereas, AT&T and VZW space theirs tighter for capacity.

 

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Interesting, so the question becomes is what their 700A deployment strategy is? Are they going to do a retrofit/rip replace and add the 700A panels and cards, or just cherry pick the sites to deploy it on?

 

Speeds are good because there are not that many people on it right now.

They're doing it by clusters by addition of 700mhz antennas and radio heads. Initially they're meant for coverage but eventually they'll be on almost every site for additional capacity.

 

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I hate Tmo-News, but do open it up every so often.

 

http://www.tmonews.com/2015/06/21gb-soft-cap-quietly-added-to-t-mobiles-unlimited-4g-lte-simple-choice-plans/

 

21GB "soft cap" put on unlimied plans. Kind of interesting...I think T-Mobile is realizing their network is suffering from speed tests and unlimited data.

 

Edit:

 

This is a comment on TmoNews

 

 

That is just mind blowing. This is why they can't offer truly unlimited data, because of idiots like this.

 

this is what happens when you make using data a 'challenge'. T-Mobile made themselves a haven for 'data hogs', and they're suffering the consequences. hopefully Sprint's Truly Unlimited network doesn't fill up with defectors.

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John did say a while back that it's your data you paid for it use as much as you want just don't use a crazy amount like 1tb. I remember him saying that. I guess now he's putting his foot in his mouth. But I have to wonder to with the music freedom is that also taking a hit on the network but he can't just take that away so the only logical step he could do was put a 21gb soft cap on unlimited users instead.

 

 

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The major point should have been when T-Mobile emphasized WiFi Calling. 21 GB is a very liberal limit and people are only getting deprioritized on congested towers. That said, T-Mobile and Sprint are willing to GIVE AWAY top of the line WiFi routers to offload traffic. That should be a pretty powerful hint. Is it really that expensive to get a cost effective DSL connection? I don't know about a lot of the country but I know that here in the Midwest AT&T and Frontier offer cost effective DSL options for $14.95 a month. These idiots can't pay another $15 a month? I am aware that there are rural places where someone might need an LTE option like T-Mobile or Sprint but these places aren't likely to experience much if any congestion or prioritization.

 

FFS. /endrant

 

 

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They still have their other spectrum locally. They will use AWS for capacity and 700 for coverage. Exactly what AT&T and VZW do here too. Tmo will likely space their network for 700 though. Whereas, AT&T and VZW space theirs tighter for capacity.

 

Using Nexus 6 on Tapatalk

 

Interesting, so that would create reverse islands of coverage wouldn't it? Space for 700A, deploy AWS and PCS on top of it?

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The major point should have been when T-Mobile emphasized WiFi Calling. 21 GB is a very liberal limit and people are only getting deprioritized on congested towers. That said, T-Mobile and Sprint are willing to GIVE AWAY top of the line WiFi routers to offload traffic. That should be a pretty powerful hint. Is it really that expensive to get a cost effective DSL connection? I don't know about a lot of the country but I know that here in the Midwest AT&T and Frontier offer cost effective DSL options for $14.95 a month. These idiots can't pay another $15 a month? I am aware that there are rural places where someone might need an LTE option like T-Mobile or Sprint but these places aren't likely to experience much if any congestion or prioritization.

 

FFS. /endrant

 

 

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The problem is that customers, especially T-Mobile customers, grow accustomed to using LTE for all their Internet needs, even when WIFI is available. I know there are sometimes I come home from work and forget to turn on my WIFI, and realize after my Netflix or Youtube video starts buffering. 

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Interesting, so that would create reverse islands of coverage wouldn't it? Space for 700A, deploy AWS and PCS on top of it?

They are doing the correct way which is an overlay. Spint needed LTE 800 for capacity because of the lack of available mid band spectrum
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I hate Tmo-News, but do open it up every so often.

 

http://www.tmonews.com/2015/06/21gb-soft-cap-quietly-added-to-t-mobiles-unlimited-4g-lte-simple-choice-plans/

 

21GB "soft cap" put on unlimied plans. Kind of interesting...I think T-Mobile is realizing their network is suffering from speed tests and unlimited data.

 

Edit:

 

This is a comment on TmoNews

 

That is just mind blowing. This is why they can't offer truly unlimited data, because of idiots like this.

What do you mean? Sprint has unlimited with "heavy" users too. Sprints deployed spectrum is more in line with TMo, in some markets, behind in others.

 

I used 20GB last month and it doesn't take much to get there. It really doesn't.

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Interesting, so that would create reverse islands of coverage wouldn't it? Space for 700A, deploy AWS and PCS on top of it?

 

It's very similar to Sprint's B25/B26 rural deployment.  Since Sprint's existing rural network is spaced on CDMA 1900, LTE 1900 is insufficient.  B26 performs more like CDMA 1900 in coverage.  So Sprint's existing rural network is kind of built for B26 LTE spacing.  

 

Tmo is doing the same thing in new rural deployments.  Space sites apart for B12, overlay with B4 or B2 depending on local spectrum availability.  B4/B2 won't quite make it to the next site, and B12 does the carry over.  It's believed that in the new towns and cities as Tmo gains subscribers they will come back and densify their network.

 

In the community I live in for roughly 100,000 people, AT&T has 13 sites and VZW has 12 sites.  Of which, AT&T has deployed LTE on 10 sites, VZW on all 12.  Tmo could come in and deploy B12 coverage and provide equal coverage in the city with approximately 5 well placed sites. If they overlaid with a 10x10 B4 on each site, it should perform equal or better than AT&T or VZW.  And as they gain subscribers, they can start to add additional sites for capacity until they have a completely cohesive B4 network too.  

 

It would work pretty well if they monitored it close and stayed ahead of the demand curve.  But they just closed on the B12 spectrum a week ago.  So what they will end up doing specifically remains to be seen.  Seems virtually impossible to get complete before the end of 2015 starting now.  I will be watching the city permits closely.  I really wonder how many sites they try to do locally.  They may only start with 2 or 3.  *gasp*

 

Sprint has to, at a minimum, do PCS G Block Protection Site(s) here by March 2016.  So they will have some action here too.  Whether they will do a meaningful local development or just the minimum required is unknown.  I'd love this area to be a part of the Sprint NGN expansion.  They do have one local Clearwire WiMax Protection Site.  It is set in a good location to cover almost half the city.

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The major point should have been when T-Mobile emphasized WiFi Calling. 21 GB is a very liberal limit and people are only getting deprioritized on congested towers. That said, T-Mobile and Sprint are willing to GIVE AWAY top of the line WiFi routers to offload traffic. That should be a pretty powerful hint. Is it really that expensive to get a cost effective DSL connection? I don't know about a lot of the country but I know that here in the Midwest AT&T and Frontier offer cost effective DSL options for $14.95 a month. These idiots can't pay another $15 a month? I am aware that there are rural places where someone might need an LTE option like T-Mobile or Sprint but these places aren't likely to experience much if any congestion or prioritization.

 

FFS. /endrant

 

 

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Do you know how fast that speed is? ATT here for $15/mo is only 768Kbps. Why on earth get that when you can get 10, 25, 45Mbps on your phone?

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In the community I live in for roughly 100,000 people, AT&T has 13 sites and VZW has 12 sites.  Of which, AT&T has deployed LTE on 10 sites, VZW on all 12.

Ooh, super-legacy AT&T sites. What do those look like? Is Ericsson their vendor up there?

 

Sorry for off topic.

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Ooh, super-legacy AT&T sites. What do those look like? Is Ericsson their vendor up there?

 

Sorry for off topic.

 

They are sites AT&T inherited when they purchased Alltel divested assets from Verizon.  Of the three remaining to be converted, one is a flagpole.  The other two are monopoles.  The monopoles have two panels per sector.  One AWS/PCS and one Cellular.  AT&T's vendor in Nebraska, the Dakotas, Colorado and Wyoming is ALU.

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They are sites AT&T inherited when they purchased Alltel divested assets from Verizon.  Of the three remaining to be converted, one is a flagpole.  The other two are monopoles.  The monopoles have two panels per sector.  One AWS/PCS and one Cellular.  AT&T's vendor in Nebraska, the Dakotas, Colorado and Wyoming is ALU.

Darn flagpoles. Ugh.

I don't think I've actually ever seen a legacy AT&T site around here. Do they use Ericsson everywhere else in the country?

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Darn flagpoles. Ugh.

I don't think I've actually ever seen a legacy AT&T site around here. Do they use Ericsson everywhere else in the country?

 

No.  They do have a lot of Ericsson.  I just gave you those states because those are the only ones I know,  I don't think they use Ericsson in New Mexico, either.  I seem to recall only Tmo and Sprint did.  It would have been very confusing tower watching if Tmo, Sprint and AT&T all used Ericsson in that market.   :lol:

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