T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion V2

[Arysyn]

I agree. Look how long it took Sprint to start and complete NV 1.0, where as Dish had their spectrum deployed nationwide in such a short, wait, nevermind. Does Dish have a single tower up?

Dish doesn't have a wireless service, but they are desperately trying to get with on fast. Even before purchasing all of their AWS-3 spectrum, they had a plan in mind and were giving quite a fight over the control of Sprint against Softbank, which of course SB won. Although, instead of waiting around on the spectrum they have, they deployed a plan of action in buying a bunch of AWS-3 spectrum which their purchasing power stunned a lot of people in the media writing about it at the time.

 

Now, not too many months later, they are in the process of talks with T-Mobile, which must be at least somewhat serious, considering the reports. Although it obviously isn't going to be fully revealed til their ready. That though is the speed I was mentioning in terms of Dish doing things pretty fast. Getting a national wireless network from scratch very likely isn't going to happen anymore, at least not in the current form.

[avb]

Dish doesn't have a wireless service, but they are desperately trying to get with on fast. Even before purchasing all of their AWS-3 spectrum, they had a plan in mind and were giving quite a fight over the control of Sprint against Softbank, which of course SB won. Although, instead of waiting around on the spectrum they have, they deployed a plan of action in buying a bunch of AWS-3 spectrum which their purchasing power stunned a lot of people in the media writing about it at the time.

 

Now, not too many months later, they are in the process of talks with T-Mobile, which must be at least somewhat serious, considering the reports. Although it obviously isn't going to be fully revealed til their ready. That though is the speed I was mentioning in terms of Dish doing things pretty fast. Getting a national wireless network from scratch very likely isn't going to happen anymore, at least not in the current form.

 

Dish hasn't shown us anything yet.  As of now they are a spectrum hoarder, and they have to get moving as their build out requirements are coming up soon.  

[bigsnake49]

Dish definitely wanted Sprint, though I doubt Dish is able to afford a purchase of Sprint away from Softbank now though.

 

DT obviously is thinking big here with its mentions of Comcast and Sprint into the fold with T-Mobile. Problem is, T-Mobile just may not have enough time to wait until a potential administration shift in the U.S. government in 2017. They desperately need more spectrum in many areas, which the 600mhz auction spectrum set aside for them just may not be enough, especially if they don't win much of it.

 

A merger with Dish may not give them access to Sprint's plentiful 2.5 spectrum, but it will give them a lot of AWS-3 spectrum which would double their current spectrum in many area, while providing a helpful boost in many others. Also, it is a merger which ought to be approved by the FCC fairly easily and take much less resources in the effort than it would trying to merge with Sprint.

Dish cannot afford Sprint for couple of reasons. First is Sprint's high debt load, not the stock price. Second, they can't borrow too much more when they themselves have a pretty high debt load. So it would have to be a merger. Or even better a partnership.

[Arysyn]

Dish cannot afford Sprint for couple of reasons. First is Sprint's high debt load, not the stock price. Second, they can't borrow too much more when they themselves have a pretty high debt load. So it would have to be a merger. Or even better a partnership.

That could be one of the reasons they lost to SB. Hopefully they will merge with T-Mobile though and soon.

[Arysyn]

Dish hasn't shown us anything yet. As of now they are a spectrum hoarder, and they have to get moving as their build out requirements are coming up soon.

Well, perhaps they haven't shown you and possibly others anything, though like practically everything in life, some think one way about something, others think differently.

 

There are people who view what Dish has done as very fast work trying to accomplish something which they appear close to accomplishing. It is that which I was referring to.

 

I'm not one to really deep much into Dish and their actions and whatnot, and am not a fan of theirs by any means, though I recognize they have a good thing going for them and they appear to be the best match for T-Mobile, which was the main point of my post about it.

[avb]

Well, perhaps they haven't shown you and possibly others anything, though like practically everything in life, some think one way about something, others think differently.

 

There are people who view what Dish has done as very fast work trying to accomplish something which they appear close to accomplishing. It is that which I was referring to.

 

I'm not one to really deep much into Dish and their actions and whatnot, and am not a fan of theirs by any means, though I recognize they have a good thing going for them and they appear to be the best match for T-Mobile, which was the main point of my post about it.

 

Wait a minute, you view that Dish has done very fast work, but you view it that way because you don't base it on their actions?  Did you just seriously say that?  Because if we view things on their actions, well...

 

Dish is in a position where they have to scramble.  They have all this spectrum, but build out requirements are looming, and they haven't done a single thing.  

[WiWavelength]

Dish is in a position where they have to scramble.  They have all this spectrum, but build out requirements are looming, and they haven't done a single thing.  

 

Most FCC construction requirements have two deadlines.  Failure to meet the first benchmark just accelerates by a year or two the deadline to meet the second benchmark.  Not necessarily a deal breaker.  I think Dish is banking on that.

 

AJ

[Arysyn]

Wait a minute, you view that Dish has done very fast work, but you view it that way because you don't base it on their actions? Did you just seriously say that? Because if we view things on their actions, well...

 

Dish is in a position where they have to scramble. They have all this spectrum, but build out requirements are looming, and they haven't done a single thing.

Look, I'm not defending Dish, and you seem to think I'm highlighting a specific point regarding the speed at which Dish gets things done at. I know very little about the satellite industry, so seeing that is where the prime business is for Dish, I'd need to know more about that to make a proper opinion on that alone.

 

My take on Dish regarding speed of doing anything, is only based on what I've read in news reports, with which I view it as being compatible with T-Mobile, in this issue being all the innovative things each company has done in a relatively fast pace, agaiiln from what I see in news reports along with shared opinion to mine by many people in the comments sections of these articles.

 

You are correct though about Dish needing to scramble with their spectrum, which is what I meant by trying to do things fast, just as T-Mobile needed to do with their business some years ago in order to save their business, which they certainly have done. The difference here with Dish, is instead of trying to save their business, they are trying to keep their spectrum.

 

Again, I'm not defending Dish, and perhaps they wouldn't move so fast without a desperate reason to do so. However being cash strapped, unlike Softbank, my view on their ownership of Sprint, had Dish won the ownership of Sprint, is they'd likely be more in a rush to improve Sprint than Softbank, different approaches towards Sprint for various reasons, one of course being a need for financial reasons. Also again, not bashing any companies approach here, just saying what it appears as.

[JeffDTD]

I hope we can revisit these conversations if Ergen is successful at making Tmobile his new excellent adventure. So many awesome opportunities await for him to fight with vendors over pricing, drop or alienate handset makers over features or device fees, and scrub Tmobile of every single superfluous financial decision it has made or could make going forward.

 

Meanest employer in America? http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/01/08/dish-network-the-meanest-employer-in-america

 

How does innovation thrive under practices that result in unhappy employees? Do you cross reference it to Steve Jobs being mean to people and getting results or is it more appropriately compared to Microsoft's historical "stack ranking" (rank and yank) system and the innovation that thrived as a result?

 

Ergen's admirable talent is bending and breaking the rules for the purpose of saving money. And to be fair, that sometimes has good results (Lightsquared spectrum, Hopper, Sling, shell companies bidding in the AWS auction to save 3B ) Perhaps he really will get a network deployed for less money? Reminds me of a story an installer told me years ago about installing for Dish. Apparently, at that time, he didn't get full payment from Dish for the installation for 30 or 45 days and if the customer cancelled the account within that time, he got nothing. Wasted time. I had no pity because he had obviously agreed to work under those conditions.

[Arysyn]

I hope we can revisit these conversations if Ergen is successful at making Tmobile his new excellent adventure. So many awesome opportunities await for him to fight with vendors over pricing, drop or alienate handset makers over features or device fees, and scrub Tmobile of every single superfluous financial decision it has made or could make going forward.

 

Meanest employer in America? http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/01/08/dish-network-the-meanest-employer-in-america

 

How does innovation thrive under practices that result in unhappy employees? Do you cross reference it to Steve Jobs being mean to people and getting results or is it more appropriately compared to Microsoft's historical "stack ranking" (rank and yank) system and the innovation that thrived as a result?

 

Ergen's admirable talent is bending and breaking the rules for the purpose of saving money. And to be fair, that sometimes has good results (Lightsquared spectrum, Hopper, Sling, shell companies bidding in the AWS auction to save 3B ) Perhaps he really will get a network deployed for less money? Reminds me of a story an installer told me years ago about installing for Dish. Apparently, at that time, he didn't get full payment from Dish for the installation for 30 or 45 days and if the customer cancelled the account within that time, he got nothing. Wasted time. I had no pity because he had obviously agreed to work under those conditions.

I certainly would hate for that bad type of business practice to happen with T-Mobile, though many reports say Jon Legere will be running things for both companies. I'm certainly not a huge fan of Jon Legere, as I'm in favor of a professional, yet non-arrogant type of C.E.O., such as Marcelo Claire running it. However, certainly Jon Legere isn't going to do anything negative for the combined company, and may even change around Dish for the better.

 

T-Mobile desperately needs more spectrum, which Dish certainly has, especially lots of additional AWS-3 spectrum T-Mobile didn't get much of in the auction. That spectrum certainly would be a major help to Chicago, which is going to be limited to 15x15 AWS for the forseeable future, unless a merger with Dish occurs. While that amount of spectrum may be plenty in other markets, and while it may be adequate even here in Chicago for awhile, at the rate in which T-Mobile is gaining customers, particularly here, that amount of spectrum will congest the network back to 10x10 levels or at least near to it, in not too much time from now.

[Arysyn]

Jon Legere posted a blog ranting about AT&T and Verizon, trying to get people to complain to the FCC it sounds like :

 

[coccydynia]

I don't understand how Dish could be viewed as a good combination for T-Mobile.

 

T-Mobile needs more spectrum to continue their growth trajectory for their own wireless business.

 

Yes, Dish has spectrum, but their core business is stagnant and decaying - they need spectrum to take OTT to the next generation.

 

Both companies need spectrum and only Dish has it. Dish also needs a host for their spectrum, which T-Mobile could provide but this unimportant.

 

Can someone explain why Dish would want to combine with T-Mobile? The thing that makes the most sense for me is for Dish to have a carrier host their spectrum and at the same time, lease some 2.5ghz from Sprint. The latter part makes the whole thing more logical for Dish to work with Sprint to host their existing spectrum as well as the 2.5ghz.

Edited June 11, 2015 by coccydynia

[Arysyn]

I don't understand how Dish could be viewed as a good combination for T-Mobile.

 

T-Mobile needs more spectrum to continue their growth trajectory for their own wireless business.

 

Yes, Dish has spectrum, but their core business is stagnant and decaying - they need spectrum to take OTT to the next generation.

 

Both companies need spectrum and only Dish has it. Dish also needs a host for their spectrum, which T-Mobile could provide but this unimportant.

 

Can someone explain why Dish would want to combine with T-Mobile? The thing that makes the most sense for me is for Dish to have a carrier host their spectrum and at the same time, lease some 2.5ghz from Sprint. The latter part makes the whole thing more logical for Dish to work with Sprint to host their existing spectrum as well as the 2.5ghz.

While I think it is a good idea for Sprint, they don't seem to want any of the AWS-3 spectrum. Plus, some reports I've read is Dish isn't interested in working with Sprint on a wireless network.

 

Merging with T-Mobile would give them more of what Dish wants, a full wireless company, rather than a partnership. Although, I admit that is all I know about what Dish wants from this, and I'm seeing this more from T-Mobile's benefit.

[joshuam]

In my area, T-Mobile has 10x10 on band 4...easily 60Mbps. Sprint's band 41 is 20mhz here, and it's no more than 20Mbps (similar signal db). But I'd rather have continuous slower but more than usable speeds than clusters of 60+Mbps.

 

I got a T-Mobile test drive device right now...impressed with the speeds, but not the coverage.

[EvanA]

In my area, T-Mobile has 10x10 on band 4...easily 60Mbps. Sprint's band 41 is 20x20 here, and it's no more than 20Mbps (similar signal db). But I'd rather have continuous slower but more than usable speeds than clusters of 60+Mbps.

 

I got a T-Mobile test drive device right now...impressed with the speeds, but not the coverage.

Sprint band 41 is 20MHz TDD, not FDD.  

[joshuam]

Sprint band 41 is 20MHz TDD, not FDD.

Corrected...typing in a hurry. ????

[Arysyn]

Looks as though Dish is getting prepared to secure some funding for the T-Mobile merger :

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/dish-networks-in-talks-with-banks-about-funding-t-mobile-bid-1434056519

 

Edit Note : UGH! WSJ has this as a subscriber article. I'll see if there is another one.

[Arysyn]

Here is one:

 

http://m.nasdaq.com/article/dish-networks-in-talks-with-banks-about-funding-t-mobile-bid----update-20150611-00954

[Arysyn]

and :

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/t-mobile-could-fit-within-dishs-value-spectrum-1434044606

[Paynefanbro]

Plus, some reports I've read is Dish isn't interested in working with Sprint on a wireless network.

 

That's not exactly true. http://newsroom.sprint.com/news-releases/sprint-and-dish-to-trial-fixed-wireless-broadband-service.htm

[Arysyn]

That's not exactly true. http://newsroom.sprint.com/news-releases/sprint-and-dish-to-trial-fixed-wireless-broadband-service.htm

That isn't the same as doing a nationwide spectrum partnership, nor selling its business to Sprint/Softbank.

 

The article I read mentioned just that, nothing about a separate smaller project, which I already knew about and actually hoped to see something greater to occur between Dish and Sprint during the days of the Sprint/T-Mobile talks, as Dish could be a great company to bring into the fold after a merger between Sprint and T-Mobile took place.

 

However, now that the government has stated against the idea, likely the most that is possible to happen is Dish/T-Mobile and Comcast/Sprint, the latter being another merger being suggested.

[Paynefanbro]

That isn't the same as doing a nationwide spectrum partnership, nor selling its business to Sprint/Softbank.

 

The article I read mentioned just that, nothing about a separate smaller project, which I already knew about and actually hoped to see something greater to occur between Dish and Sprint during the days of the Sprint/T-Mobile talks, as Dish could be a great company to bring into the fold after a merger between Sprint and T-Mobile took place.

 

However, now that the government has stated against the idea, likely the most that is possible to happen is Dish/T-Mobile and Comcast/Sprint, the latter being another merger being suggested.

 

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to suggest. You clearly said:

 

 

Dish isn't interested in working with Sprint on a wireless network.

 

To which I replied that they clearly did have interest in working with Sprint on a wireless network. They even worked with nTelos and used what I believe was their 2.5GHz spectrum holdings for a similar fixed wireless broadband test service. Whether it is nationwide or a test service in a few cities, there's no denying that Dish has wanted and still likely wants to work with Sprint on replying their spectrum.

[Arysyn]

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to suggest. You clearly said:

 

 

To which I replied that they clearly did have interest in working with Sprint on a wireless network. They even worked with nTelos and used what I believe was their 2.5GHz spectrum holdings for a similar fixed wireless broadband test service. Whether it is nationwide or a test service in a few cities, there's no denying that Dish has wanted and still likely wants to work with Sprint on replying their spectrum.

In my efforts to keep my posts as short as possible as often as possible, I may often forget a word or two. I meant a nationwide network which involves Dish making a firm decision on what to do with its spectrum, in a way which would be their ultimate decision what to do in order to meet the FCC requirements by its deadline, for which it has to decide on a major partnership, a merger, a sale of its spectrum, or a sale of its business.

 

The article I'm recalling, though didn't figure I had to save the link for a future date where the simple observation made in the article would be called into question by someone on a forum questioning it from another person's brief mention of it.

 

Now as I've said on this site before, which I'll say here again. I'm not defending Dish, nor am I attacking Sprint. However, from my recollection of the article, which itself seemed to be based more on either the opinion and/or the observations of its author, it didn't seem that Dish was going to work with Sprint on a national wireless network in which Dish would be using its option on, of the options I have mentioned.

 

Explaining things in detail takes longer, which more space is required. No apologies from me this time around for the long post.

[Arysyn]

One more mention rather quickly. Some of the latest articles, though I can't say the same for all of them, but some have not mentioned anything about Dish working with Sprint as their big option. It has been either to merge with T-Mobile, or be purchased by Verizon.

 

Mentions of Sprint have been them selling some of their spectrum, or being merged with Comcast. These articles mentioning Comcast though haven't been very clear about Softbank.

[mittenmitten]

I think this entire thing is ludacris. AT&T bought DirectTV because it was a direct competitor with their Uverse service. AT&T just happens to also have AT&T mobility. It doesn't mean TV services and cellular services are going to start pairing off, or that they HAVE to pair off. It's not even a trend.