Softbank - New Sprint - Discussion

[utiz4321]

For anyone interested, there is good article on GigaOM about Sprint and NV that just come off the presses. It hits on many of the topics Robert alluded to last night in his post about the spectrum assets of B41 and the plan for additional carriers and wide spectrum pipes in the future.

 

http://gigaom.com/2014/02/12/sprint-ceo-dan-hesse-4g-lte-network/

There is alot in this article i disagree with, but the last paragraph. I think was spot on. By the time spark is deployed in 100 markets vzw will more than likely have aws deployed across their lte network, so it is hard to see spark being that much of a differentiator for them. It reminds me of their wimax deployment, they had wimax nearly a year before vzw began their lte roll out but limited avalibilty and the vzw lte overtaking them made wimax a bust for sprint. At least with wimax they could point to the capital markets collapse as the reason but there is no shortage of funds this time around.

[ahecht]

Could finally publically announce the official killing off of subsidies march 14. Though Im feeling that it will be a bad loss of subscribers from churn.

 

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Has there been any more news on that? Will it be like when they killed off Sprint Premier where current subscribers get one last upgrade after the deadline, or will it just be "sucks to be you" for subscribers with renewal dates after the 14th?

[Paynefanbro]

There is alot in this article i disagree with, but the last paragraph. I think was spot on. By the time spark is deployed in 100 markets vzw will more than likely have aws deployed across their lte network, so it is hard to see spark being that much of a differentiator for them. It reminds me of their wimax deployment, they had wimax nearly a year before vzw began their lte roll out but limited avalibilty and the vzw lte overtaking them made wimax a bust for sprint. At least with wimax they could point to the capital markets collapse as the reason but there is no shortage of funds this time around.

 

Parts of Verizon's network aren't even spaced for AWS, but for 850MHz. In those area, Spark will be a million times better, by offering the same speed as Verizon's AWS, but in a network that is 3x as dense. Upon completion, Sprint's network should be equal to or better than any other network in the U.S. in their service area.

[WiWavelength]

Has there been any more news on that? Will it be like when they killed off Sprint Premier where current subscribers get one last upgrade after the deadline, or will it just be "sucks to be you" for subscribers with renewal dates after the 14th?

The "sucks to be you" perspective is wrong. As I have had to explain numerous times, subsidized upgrades are not earned from the past. They are given with contracts for the future. If contracts go away, then so do subsidized upgrades.

 

AJ

[utiz4321]

Parts of Verizon's network aren't even spaced for AWS, but for 850MHz. In those area, Spark will be a million times better, by offering the same speed as Verizon's AWS, but in a network that is 3x as dense. Upon completion, Sprint's network should be equal to or better than any other network in the U.S. in their service area.

I would agree with you if all vzw was going to do in the 2 years was deploy aws but they are not, they'll make their network denser. Sprint's network will only be as better than others in the top 100 markets and only by the end of 2015. Look my point is that the market and other carriers aren't standing still, sprint has an awesome advantage in their 2.6 holdings but that advantage declines over time. As other carriers begin freeing up more spectrum and look at carrier agrogation sprint advantage becomes less and less just like the WiMAX advantage declined over time.

[Boosted20V]

I would agree with you if all vzw was going to do in the 2 years was deploy aws but they are not, they'll make their network denser. Sprint's network will only be as better than others in the top 100 markets and only by the end of 2015. Look my point is that the market and other carriers aren't standing still, sprint has an awesome advantage in their 2.6 holdings but that advantage declines over time. As other carriers begin freeing up more spectrum and look at carrier agrogation sprint advantage becomes less and less just like the WiMAX advantage declined over time.

You're ignoring the fact that Sprint owns more spectrum than the other providers by a WIDE margin and there aren't auctions lined up to sell nearly the amount of spectrum the others would need to match Sprint.

 

Edit - Also, just like any other technology, you reach a point of diminishing returns. Who cares if you can aggregate a pipe to 1Gb/s. Is that really necessary? Even if Sprint offered by far the fastest LTE service right now, many people still wouldn't leave T/VZ because inertia is a very strong force. Son said exactly that, if he can't buy T-Mobile, Sprint will never be the size of the other two because customer trends don't lend themselves to that many customers leaving.

[utiz4321]

You're ignoring the fact that Sprint owns more spectrum than the other providers by a WIDE margin and there aren't auctions lined up to sell nearly the amount of spectrum the others would need to match Sprint.

Not at all. This will allow them to keep unlimited data for years to come and I think sprint management believes that reliable unlimited data will be enough of a differentiator to make them profitable. The problem I see is they need 2.6 to make that reliable network and so they will have by the end of 2015 a reliable data network in the top 100 markets. Sprint's management believes that will be enough I am skeptical but hey they make a lot more than me and know a lot more than me so they are probably right.

[cletus]

You're ignoring the fact that Sprint owns more spectrum than the other providers by a WIDE margin and there aren't auctions lined up to sell nearly the amount of spectrum the others would need to match Sprint.

 

Edit - Also, just like any other technology, you reach a point of diminishing returns. Who cares if you can aggregate a pipe to 1Gb/s. Is that really necessary? Even if Sprint offered by far the fastest LTE service right now, many people still wouldn't leave T/VZ because inertia is a very strong force. Son said exactly that, if he can't buy T-Mobile, Sprint will never be the size of the other two because customer trends don't lend themselves to that many customers leaving.

If Sprint offered the fastest LTE service nationwide with the current unlimited plans and pricing there would be millions of people moving to Sprint. If anything, buying T-Mobile would be a bandaid fix to the currently underperforming Sprint network in the major metro markets that WOULD help steer people to Sprint.

 

Really though the big problem is the public perception of Sprint is very low and the reports that continually showcase Sprint's data speeds as extremely low compared to the other 3 networks only reinforces this perception. Did anyone TRULY care that Sprint had more completed calls than the other 3 networks during the Superbowl? Nope but people were quick to point out the horrendous data speeds. I truly believe speed is Sprint's only future and while the current Spark projections look truly awesome if Sprint takes too long to get there the network might simply be average rather than revolutionary. 

[Boosted20V]

I guess. I think we all place too much emphasis on sheer speeds because we're interested in technology. T-Mobile is giving away their service at cut rate prices and paying people's ETFs and yes T and VZ have responded to a degree. But realistically, they've gained, what, 2 million subs out of 260+ million that are on other providers? And as Hesse said, that tapers down as time goes on. There was a pent up demand of people who were looking to get out of contracts, that doesn't last forever. We all read tech sites and are "in the know". As long as my mom, dad, sister, extended family can pull up web pages when out and about, use GPS, and place calls, that's all they care about. So again, many people have no issue with Sprint even if they ONLY get a 1mbps connection.

[PythonFanPA]

We all read tech sites and are "in the know". As long as my mom, dad, sister, extended family can pull up web pages when out and about, use GPS, and place calls, that's all they care about. So again, many people have no issue with Sprint even if they ONLY get a 1mbps connection.

 

Nail on the head with these comments.  And public perception issues right now doesn't concern me at all, it can and does change even in the face of acute negativity for awhile.   The irony of Tmo's current 15 minutes of fame position aside, look at Netflix.  It hasn't been that long ago (a little over 2 years) that they were beaten up in the press repeatedly over service and pricing changes and people started leaving in droves, but you don't really hear about that anymore now.

[jamisonshaw125]

I love reading the comments on this forum. Collectively between all the posts, I've learned more on this forum than any official sprint announcement or network vision pamphlet. My donation will come soon.

 

 

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[cletus]

I guess. I think we all place too much emphasis on sheer speeds because we're interested in technology. T-Mobile is giving away their service at cut rate prices and paying people's ETFs and yes T and VZ have responded to a degree. But realistically, they've gained, what, 2 million subs out of 260+ million that are on other providers? And as Hesse said, that tapers down as time goes on. There was a pent up demand of people who were looking to get out of contracts, that doesn't last forever. We all read tech sites and are "in the know". As long as my mom, dad, sister, extended family can pull up web pages when out and about, use GPS, and place calls, that's all they care about. So again, many people have no issue with Sprint even if they ONLY get a 1mbps connection.

I think you are mostly right but it comes back to how we define speed and/or fast. With LTE comes speed in the noticeable way to end users: Reduced latency. Sure, my 3g connection to Sprint is mostly adequate for browsing but when it takes 10x as long to start loading pictures due to the massive latency I can easily see someone saying that the Sprint service is slower and confusing latency with throughput. Actually, even when I really think about it latency is probably what annoys me on a day to day basis of using the Sprint network.

 

I'd say that my 3g connections on Sprint have about 10x the latency of the LTE connections... 300ms+ vs 30ms and that makes a big difference in terms of end user experience.

[Paynefanbro]

I think you are mostly right but it comes back to how we define speed and/or fast. With LTE comes speed in the noticeable way to end users: Reduced latency. Sure, my 3g connection to Sprint is mostly adequate for browsing but when it takes 10x as long to start loading pictures due to the massive latency I can easily see someone saying that the Sprint service is slower and confusing latency with throughput. Actually, even when I really think about it latency is probably what annoys me on a day to day basis of using the Sprint network.

 

I'd say that my 3g connections on Sprint have about 10x the latency of the LTE connections... 300ms+ vs 30ms and that makes a big difference in terms of end user experience.

 

Luckily I've never encountered problems like this. Throughout most of the city, even if speeds are 300 Kbps, latency is at 120ms or below. On average, my EVDO ping is at ~80ms and speeds are just over 1 Mbps. That's enough to watch an HQ or 480p video on YouTube. With almost no buffering or stuttering.

[The Dave]

Luckily I've never encountered problems like this. Throughout most of the city, even if speeds are 300 Kbps, latency is at 120ms or below. On average, my EVDO ping is at ~80ms and speeds are just over 1 Mbps. That's enough to watch an HQ or 480p video on YouTube. With almost no buffering or stuttering.

I agree, after NV my 3G rarely went over 90 ms with speeds between 700 kbps-2.5 mbps. It was really usable and for most tasks, I doubt anyone would feel the difference in browsing Web pages or pulling up email between 3G and 4G.

[IamMrFamous07]

The new chairman of Sprint Corp. recently and bluntly challenged the leadership capabilities of the nation’s third largest wireless carrier.

 

“This is why I sometimes yell at Sprint executives,” the Tokyo businessman told an Asian publication. He said Sprint’s advertising was “not cost effective. This made me quite angry.” And he added, “Sprint has gotten used to being a loser.”

 

Ouch.

 

Some local public relations officials told The Star that Son shouldn’t have been so open.

 

 

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2014/02/13/4821972/a-public-challenge-to-improve.html#storylink=cpy

[OhioCalling]

For some unknown reason I am not being able to quote any messages but this is in reference (quote) to the previous post.

 

The Truth Hurts sometimes but if it gets results then it is a good thing.

[Conan Kudo]

The new chairman of Sprint Corp. recently and bluntly challenged the leadership capabilities of the nation’s third largest wireless carrier.

 

“This is why I sometimes yell at Sprint executives,” the Tokyo businessman told an Asian publication. He said Sprint’s advertising was “not cost effective. This made me quite angry.” And he added, “Sprint has gotten used to being a loser.”

 

Ouch.

 

Some local public relations officials told The Star that Son shouldn’t have been so open.

 

 

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2014/02/13/4821972/a-public-challenge-to-improve.html#storylink=cpy

In Japan, shame is an extremely effective means of getting something done. He may be employing this tactic to see if it'll work.

[IamMrFamous07]

In Japan, shame is an extremely effective means of getting something done. He may be employing this tactic to see if it'll work.

I agree. At least Son isnt playing around.

[The Dave]

When I worked for a car dealership, if you didn't produce sales and profit on a daily and weekly basis, you got shamed in front of everyone with big charts showing how poorly you stack up against the other salesmen and quickly after that you will be at the curb looking for another job. Sometimes you have to have a hard line. If the management hasn't shown positive results and forward momentum, then Son definitely should bring out the iron fist.

[jonathanm1978]

Some undoubtedly has to be pinned anger towards the miss on the tmo deal. He's likely using that anger towards the US FCC rules to fuel the fire he's lighting under Sprint upper level management.

 

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[Johnner1999]

The new chairman of Sprint Corp. recently and bluntly challenged the leadership capabilities of the nation’s third largest wireless carrier.

 

“This is why I sometimes yell at Sprint executives,” the Tokyo businessman told an Asian publication. He said Sprint’s advertising was “not cost effective. This made me quite angry.” And he added, “Sprint has gotten used to being a loser.”

 

Ouch.

 

Some local public relations officials told The Star that Son shouldn’t have been so open.

 

 

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2014/02/13/4821972/a-public-challenge-to-improve.html#storylink=cpy

I think he was spot on. It is true that the truth hurts at times.

 

In the end it should really make Sprint stronger.

 

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[dnicekid]

I have never rooted for someone as much as I do Sprint and pay them monthly??? This is a costly underdog for me, hopefully the stock will pay us back! 

 

Sprint should tell the vendors to reorganize their efforts, STOP working outside the metro areas, bring everyone in to expedite the builds. Once the large pops in their perspective region/area are done start on the surrounding sites.. 

[Johnner1999]

I think one of the great wins for Sprint over tmo is that sprint does work in non metro areas. At least that's my take and how it is where I am. Sure I'll bitch about crappy service with sprint. But it is service and works where as zero service is well zero.

 

 

 

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[lafester]

I think everything is progressing nicely. As much as we want backhaul competed there isn't a whole lot they can do about it.

Would not do much good to pull everyone in to one area if they would all be sitting around waiting for permits.

What they can do is rush 800 voice and lte on completed sites to help fill in some of the gaps.

[caspar347]

I think everything is progressing nicely. As much as we want backhaul competed there isn't a whole lot they can do about it.

Would not do much good to pull everyone in to one area if they would all be sitting around waiting for permits.

What they can do is rush 800 voice and lte on completed sites to help fill in some of the gaps.

Of course, they could start firing backhaul providers (which I very much would like to see them do), but I doubt that will happen. And yeah, permits suck.