Sprint TD-LTE 2500/2600mhz Discussion

[MrAnderson]

There is a new Band 25 LTE site in Thornton, adjacent to some Clearwire TD-LTE 2600 sites.  I'm going to see if I can do some hand off testing.

 

Robert

 

Which site is it in Thornton?

[WiWavelength]

Yes.  Then, meanwhile back at the Herron compound in New Mexico...

 

Actually, if Joey has been left in charge, I imagine the happenings back at the house are a little more like this...

 

 

AJ

[ericdabbs]

Okay, from a band plan perspective, here is what we are looking at for the TD-LTE carrier in Denver.  It is located right at the low end of the contiguous 55.5 MHz of BRS spectrum that is counted as part of the spectrum screen.

 

 

AJ

 

That spreadsheet looks mighty familiar.  I wonder where he got the info from for the green blocks.

[S4GRU]

Which site is it in Thornton?

 

DN73XC081

[WiWavelength]

That spreadsheet looks mighty familiar.  I wonder where he got the info from for the green blocks.

 

I got it from the Motorola Photon 4G, of course.

 

 

AJ

[DaQue]

 

Best final result so far inside the hotel. We are now calling the valet for our car and about to go mobile. I have had to switch to the 12GB hotspot plan for the remainder of this billing period. I'm burning through the GB's! AJ is twitching.

 

Robert

 

EDIT:  Got one even slightly better:

 

Nice.  AT&T &Verizon top out at what? about 35-40? My home cable to the PC is only 40 mbps right now. Will Sprint be able to claim the fastest  speed when the network is rolled out? I would like to wipe the smirk off AT&T's face.

[S4GRU]

Some photos of Site # CO-DEN1227 on top of the Renaissance Hotel at Stapleton.  Strangely, I found four sector ID's, but only three panels.

 

 

 

 

 

I tried to get to the side so I could maybe zoom in on the labels.  But there was a dang abortion clinic in the way.  

 

Robert

 

Christina has run into the pharmacy to get me some motion sickness pills.  I'm about to barf trying to use this laptop, read tiny numbers while she is driving.   :puke:

[WiWavelength]

Some photos of Site # CO-DEN1227 on top of the Renaissance Hotel at Stapleton.  Strangely, I found four sector ID's, but only three panels.

 

 

 

I am not sure quite what it is about the facade, but it clearly has the look of a repurposed former airport hotel.  I am just sorry that no one laughed at my jokes about Stapleton last month.

 

http://s4gru.com/index.php?/topic/2172-network-visionlte-colorado-market-denvercolo-springsgrand-jct/page-31&do=findComment&comment=175097

 

 

 

AJ

[ericdabbs]

So I was looking at the spectrum map below under Sprint and BRS spectrum, I noticed that Albuquerque is not listed as having any BRS spectrum.  Is this true?

 

http://specmap.sequence-omega.net/

[WiWavelength]

So I was looking at the spectrum map below under Sprint and BRS spectrum, I noticed that Albuquerque is not listed as having any BRS spectrum.  Is this true?

 

http://specmap.sequence-omega.net/

 

I cannot exactly explain it, but the Albuquerque BTA as a whole has no licensed BRS spectrum.  However, Clearwire does have a few rather unusual site radius based BRS licenses for at least Bernalillo and Sandoval Counties, which include the entire Albuquerque metro.  The odd part is that site radius based licenses are typically reserved for EBS, not BRS.  Since Sandoval County basically surrounds Los Alamos County, though, my guess is that this is a measure to protect some sort of spectrum usage or RF measurement at Los Alamos National Laboratory.

 

For a few examples, here are BRS licenses that Clearwire holds in the Albuquerque metro:

 

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/licenseMarketSum.jsp?licKey=2586126

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/licenseMarketSum.jsp?licKey=2588905

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/licenseMarketSum.jsp?licKey=2588951

 

This is one of the longstanding problems that I have with Anthony's automated map data gathering.  I admire what he has been able to accomplish, and it provides a decent bird's eye view of spectrum holdings.  But it has lots of holes and inaccuracies that can be filled and corrected only through manual research.

 

AJ

[S4GRU]

OK...here are the results of the Band 25/Band 41 handoff testing in Thornton.  Pretty good...

 

In browsing, loading websites, etc. I did not notice the threshold at all between bands.  When running YouTube (a grumpy cat video), it paused when I transitioned from one band to another.  Band 25 to 41.  And Band 41 to 25.  It would transfer without pausing when I transferred within the same band.  

 

I transitioned on Band 25 to the second Band 25 site in Thornton without pausing.  I also changed off between Band 41 sites without pausing, no problem.  To just quickly hit the play button again though was a pretty minor inconvenience.

 

All things considered, I think it worked well.  

 

Robert

[MacinJosh]

OK...here are the results of the Band 25/Band 41 handoff testing in Thornton. Pretty good...

 

In browsing, loading websites, etc. I did not notice the threshold at all between bands. When running YouTube (a grumpy cat video), it paused when I transitioned from one band to another. Band 25 to 41. And Band 41 to 25. It would transfer without pausing when I transferred within the same band.

 

I transitioned on Band 25 to the second Band 25 site in Thornton without pausing. I also changed off between Band 41 sites without pausing, no problem. To just quickly hit the play button again though was a pretty minor inconvenience.

 

All things considered, I think it worked well.

 

Robert

This is awesome news that there is only minor handoff pausing from PCS LTE to TD LTE. This will make things so much better in the end.

[thewezgrays]

This is awesome news that there is only minor handoff pausing from PCS LTE to TD LTE. This will make things so much better in the end.

 

Hopefully as the technology matures is there a chance that less of a "pause" would be possible?  It is great to know that the "break" is minimal -- but it would be nice to know that one could listen/watch to a streaming audio/video feed without this happening one day (or on a voip call/video feed, etc)...

[MacinJosh]

Hopefully as the technology matures is there a chance that less of a "pause" would be possible? It is great to know that the "break" is minimal -- but it would be nice to know that one could listen/watch to a streaming audio/video feed without this happening one day (or on a voip call/video feed, etc)...

I would sure hope so as technology advances, but the differences between time-division and frequency-division may not make that possible.

[thewezgrays]

I would sure hope so as technology advances, but the differences between time-division and frequency-division may not make that possible.

So would that imply that a transistion from FD-LTE 800 to FD-LTE 1900 might not include that break then, that only the TD to FD would have this "break" in it?  That would be a good thing.

 

Being pretty rural out here the biggest thing I am worrying about is now that they say they will have all three bands on all sites I could see a phone bouncing from TD2600 near to the site onto FD1900 then FD800 then to the next site back up to 2600 and so on... could be annoying when streaming...

 

EDIT:  Replace "tower" with "site"

[S4GRU]

This is awesome news that there is only minor handoff pausing from PCS LTE to TD LTE. This will make things so much better in the end.

It may just be YouTube doesn't like the hard handoff. I'm not certain. It may take just a tad longer than an FDD handoff.

 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

 

[S4GRU]

I've hit a lot of 30-50Mbps zones on Denver's TDD-LTE network. But nothing faster than I've hit my hotel room so far.

 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

 

[Ascertion]

I've hit a lot of 30-50Mbps zones on Denver's TDD-LTE network. But nothing faster than I've hit my hotel room so far.

 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Is this due to Wimax still being active and hogging some of the available spectrum or was Clearwire just rolling out 20mhz carriers? A lot of articles stated Clearwire was going for 20+20 mhz carriers which should yield better speeds than that. I'm not saying those are slow but I was looking forward to seeing it pull a bit faster.

[tybo31316]

Does Softbank plan on using the ebs spectrum or are they going to let the contracts expire? I remember before the deal closed there was some chatter on here that they would drop the leased spectrum.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7

 

 

[DaQue]

First) wow... just wow.... Grumpy cat videos, there is nothing Robert won't endure for Sprint info.

 

Second) 20 +20 with carrier aggregation maycome later with LTE advanced.

              "quasi asymmetric carrier may be the way to go" - AJ

              (actually he was talking about PCS H at the time I just love the phrase, fun at parties)

 

 

Third) Just an opinion but I don't see them letting EBS go without getting some spectrum for it and I don't think anyone would offer spectrum for it right now.  

[irev210]

I've hit a lot of 30-50Mbps zones on Denver's TDD-LTE network. But nothing faster than I've hit my hotel room so far.Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Can you run some traceroutes?

 

 

25 vs 41 and see how they are routed?

 

Maybe use the sprint.net looking glass and a few different traces to a few major websites

[S4GRU]

Can you run some traceroutes?

 

 

25 vs 41 and see how they are routed?

 

Maybe use the sprint.net looking glass and a few different traces to a few major websites

Here is the TDD LTE 2600 trace route:

 

1. 192.168.1.1; SprintHotSpot.lan; 6.321, 8.279

 

2. *

 

3. 10.156.27.75; 44.630, 46.764, 46.705

 

4. 10.156.24.197; 46.448, 46.527, 57.329

 

5. 10.156.24.193; 59.175

 

6. 66.1.24.242; 59.183, 54.668, 54.683

 

7. 144.223.173.129; 38.404, 44.933, 46.704

 

8. 144.232.20.160; sl-crs1-oma-0-1-3-0.sprintlink.net; 54.283

 

8. 144.232.25.239; sl-crs1-oma-0-0-3-0.sprintlink.net; 67.600

 

8. 144.232.20.160; sl-crs1-oma-0-1-3-0.sprintlink.net; 64.079

 

9. 144.232.1.72; 71.689, 71.602, 71.213

 

10. 144.232.18.153; sl-st20-chi-4-0-0.sprintlink.net; 67.489, 63.008, 175.530

 

11. 144.232.8.114; 175.709, 168.782, 157.456

 

12. 4.53.96.158; YAHOO-INC.edge3.Chicago3.Level3.net; 147.619, 142.717, 140.568

 

13. 216.115.100.10; ae-0.pat2.nez.yahoo.com; 140.236

 

13. 216.115.104.124; ae-7.pat1.nez.yahoo.com; 139.954, 127.191

 

14. 216.115.100.3; xe-5-0-0.msr2.ne1.yahoo.com; 130.010

 

14. 216.115.100.1; xe-5-0-0.msr1.ne1.yahoo.com; 130.394

 

14. 216.115.100.3; xe-5-0-0.msr2.ne1.yahoo.com; 130.350

 

15. 98.138.144.29; xe-8-0-0.clr1-a-gdc.ne1.yahoo.com; 130.144, 129.818, 129.914

 

16. 98.138.93.11; et-18-25.fab7-1-gdc.ne1.yahoo.com; 129.870

 

16. 98.138.0.91; et-18-25.fab1-1-gdc.ne1.yahoo.com; 130.023

 

16. 98.138.93.15; et-18-25.fab8-1-gdc.ne1.yahoo.com; 129.483

 

17. 98.138.240.20; po-17.bas1-7-prd.ne1.yahoo.com; 129.452

 

17. 98.138.240.36; po-17.bas2-7-prd.ne1.yahoo.com; 137.678

 

17. 98.138.240.16; po-15.bas1-7-prd.ne1.yahoo.com; 136.890

 

 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

 

[ericdabbs]

First) wow... just wow.... Grumpy cat videos, there is nothing Robert won't endure for Sprint info.

 

Second) 20 +20 with carrier aggregation maycome later with LTE advanced.

              "quasi asymmetric carrier may be the way to go" - AJ

              (actually he was talking about PCS H at the time I just love the phrase, fun at parties)

 

 

Third) Just an opinion but I don't see them letting EBS go without getting some spectrum for it and I don't think anyone would offer spectrum for it right now.  

 

 

there is no purpose of letting go of EBS licenses at this point.   Unless forced as a concession they should keep it for the time being.

[S4GRU]

Here is band class 25 trace route: 1. *

 

2. 10.156.27.90; 35.490, 36.196, 37.157

 

3. 10.156.24.197; 37.082, 37.008, 37.754

 

4. 10.156.24.193; 40.522, *

 

5. 66.1.24.242; 42.282, 51.123, 51.021

 

6. 144.223.173.129; 50.920, 34.903, 54.900

 

7. 144.232.25.239; sl-crs1-oma-0-0-3-0.sprintlink.net; 69.455, 69.271

 

7. 144.232.20.160; sl-crs1-oma-0-1-3-0.sprintlink.net; 57.260

 

8. 144.232.1.72; 69.788, 66.793, 64.814

 

9. 144.232.18.153; sl-st20-chi-4-0-0.sprintlink.net; 55.515, 55.351, 55.089

 

10. 144.232.8.114; 89.786, 72.402, 67.209

 

11. 4.69.138.190; vlan52.ebr2.Chicago2.Level3.net; 88.059, 87.808, 86.669

 

12. 4.69.148.145; ae-6-6.ebr2.Washington12.Level3.net; 86.417, 86.117, 86.606

 

13. 4.69.143.221; ae-5-5.ebr2.Washington1.Level3.net; 87.382, 87.142, 85.126

 

14. 4.69.134.154; ae-82-82.csw3.Washington1.Level3.net; 105.312

 

14. 4.69.134.150; ae-72-72.csw2.Washington1.Level3.net; 99.247

 

14. 4.69.134.154; ae-82-82.csw3.Washington1.Level3.net; 85.247

 

15. 4.69.149.141; ae-1-80.edge1.Washington1.Level3.net; 74.242

 

15. 4.69.149.205; ae-4-90.edge1.Washington1.Level3.net; 74.001

 

15. 4.69.149.141; ae-1-80.edge1.Washington1.Level3.net; 74.766

 

16. 146.82.54.206; 97.103, 93.276, 93.102

 

17. 216.115.101.156; ae-0.pat1.nyc.yahoo.com; 82.740, 100.425

 

17. 216.115.101.153; ae-4.pat1.che.yahoo.com; 82.770

 

18. 216.115.96.67; ae-5.pat2.bfz.yahoo.com; 119.113

 

18. 216.115.96.119; ge-3-1-8-p191.pat1.nyc.yahoo.com; 148.949

 

18. 216.115.96.67; ae-5.pat2.bfz.yahoo.com; 118.255

 

19. 216.115.97.199; ae-3.pat1.bfz.yahoo.com; 140.187

 

19. 216.115.100.73; ae-4.msr2.bf1.yahoo.com; 207.308

 

19. 216.115.100.31; ae-3.msr2.bf1.yahoo.com; 109.641

 

20. 216.115.100.31; ae-3.msr2.bf1.yahoo.com; 118.190

 

20. 216.115.100.25; ae-4.msr1.bf1.yahoo.com; 115.001

 

20. 98.139.129.183; UNKNOWN-98-139-129-X.yahoo.com; 139.253

 

21. 98.139.128.59; et-18-25.fab4-1-gdc.bf1.yahoo.com; 136.231

 

21. 98.139.128.47; et-17-1.fab6-1-gdc.bf1.yahoo.com; 135.536

 

21. 98.139.130.13; xe-2-0-0.clr1-a-sat.bf1.yahoo.com; 120.843

 

22. 98.139.129.225; po-14.bas1-7-prd.bf1.yahoo.com; 115.266

 

22. 98.139.129.177; po-11.bas1-7-prd.bf1.yahoo.com; 113.403

 

22. 98.139.128.43; et-17-1.fab4-1-gdc.bf1.yahoo.com; 110.136

 

23. 98.139.129.145; po-9.bas1-7-prd.bf1.yahoo.com; 123.437

 

23. 98.139.129.243; po-15.bas2-7-prd.bf1.yahoo.com; 103.359, *

 

24. *

 

25. *

 

26. *

 

27. *

 

28. *

 

29. *

 

30. *

 

 

 

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

 

[iansltx]

Nice.  AT&T &Verizon top out at what? about 35-40? My home cable to the PC is only 40 mbps right now. Will Sprint be able to claim the fastest  speed when the network is rolled out? I would like to wipe the smirk off AT&T's face.

 

AT&T and Verizon, in 10x10 markets, can reach into 70/25 Mbps, though those speeds are VERY rare these days. However 45-55 Mbps down and 10-20 Mbps up can still happen in the field. T-Mobile seems to be a bit better; I've seen 50/25 Mbps, though that was only once.

 

So AT&T, VZW and T-Mobile can all beat the speeds that Robert is pulling down over TD-LTE currently with their 10x10 networks. But all three (particularly AT&T and VZW) are covering much more territory per cell vs. Sprint TD, so even with one 20MHz TD carrier Sprint's speeds are going to stay higher for longer as people load the network down.

 

Of course, VZW can overlay 10x10 or even 20x20 in FD AWS practically wherever it wants to deal with these capacity issues. And AT&T may be able to patch together PCS and AWS LTE to do about the same thing while they wait for their 10x10 (it's only 10x10 right?) of WCS to become usable. And T-Mobile, which already has a relatively dense network and few subscribers, can go to 20x20 FD in some areas as well...and add more spatial streams for tablets, aircards and hotspots.

 

But my guess is that Sprint will have multiple TD carriers per site sooner rather than later where they're needed, probably before VZW gets its AWS overlay going at full tilt. And I wouldn't be surprised if next year's Zing supports 20+20 TD, with a better CPU and 802.11ac, to pump out more bandwidth than 20x20 FD can provide (at least on the downstream side).