T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion

[joshnys8913]

It's weird and wonky.  So he loves it.  It matches his personality.  Since it's just a secondary phone for him, it's perfect.  He spends a lot of time praising it and bitching about it.  He is starting his own smartphone collection.  So whenever a phone on his list gets below $200, he guys it off Ebay.  And of course, Fire Phone prices are sinking like the Titanic.

Phone collectors!! I can I join that group? LOL!!!! I do that same thing, I swear I have well over 10 cell phones.

[richy]

I've only paid for a sim once for Verizon ($6 on fleabay) for an lte tablet (as an aside I was shocked how poor the Verizon experience was). Sprint waived the 'activation fee' as did tmobile when I joined. Years ago I got a tmo sim when I visited the us (back when edge was as fast as it got) and the cost of the sim was applied as credit.  Not sure what you actually have to do to pay for a sim. Perhaps it's like paying the sticker price for a car, someone does but most don't? 

 

Latest on tmobile s network here is basically a slow decline in speeds. No network upgrades in the near future (based on permits). Lte in a few locations gets down to 1-2 mbps. Tolerable even for video but doesn't bode well for the future. Traditionally fast areas are still 20mbps+ offpeak but now frequently 8 mbps at peak. It will be interesting to see how it continues if tmo keep adding subs at their current rate without adding more capacity. Still no word on a 700MHz purchase from cavalier. I see their list of upgrades to do growing longer all the time. They need to get their ass in gear pronto and at least get the 15 X 15 running here to deliver capacity in congested places then the 700 for building penetration and some additional rural coverage along the coasts at the edge of towns. Once Sprint gets everything rolled out here there should be an exodus back from tmo if this decline continues. 

[bucdenny]

I've only paid for a sim once for Verizon ($6 on fleabay) for an lte tablet (as an aside I was shocked how poor the Verizon experience was). Sprint waived the 'activation fee' as did tmobile when I joined. Years ago I got a tmo sim when I visited the us (back when edge was as fast as it got) and the cost of the sim was applied as credit.  Not sure what you actually have to do to pay for a sim. Perhaps it's like paying the sticker price for a car, someone does but most don't? 

 

Latest on tmobile s network here is basically a slow decline in speeds. No network upgrades in the near future (based on permits). Lte in a few locations gets down to 1-2 mbps. Tolerable even for video but doesn't bode well for the future. Traditionally fast areas are still 20mbps+ offpeak but now frequently 8 mbps at peak. It will be interesting to see how it continues if tmo keep adding subs at their current rate without adding more capacity. Still no word on a 700MHz purchase from cavalier. I see their list of upgrades to do growing longer all the time. They need to get their ass in gear pronto and at least get the 15 X 15 running here to deliver capacity in congested places then the 700 for building penetration and some additional rural coverage along the coasts at the edge of towns. Once Sprint gets everything rolled out here there should be an exodus back from tmo if this decline continues. 

 

I get no faster than 0.5Mbps to 0.8Mbps on HSPA+ in many places San Diego.  Its getting very congested.  LTE is not too bad since they have 10x10 here in SD but unreliable (speed test are great but with full bars of LTE, need to airplane cycle very often to get data connections) .

[maxsilver]

Latest on tmobile s network here is basically a slow decline in speeds. No network upgrades in the near future (based on permits). Lte in a few locations gets down to 1-2 mbps. Tolerable even for video but doesn't bode well for the future. Traditionally fast areas are still 20mbps+ offpeak but now frequently 8 mbps at peak.

 

They need to get their ass in gear pronto and at least get the 15 X 15 running here to deliver capacity in congested places

 

That might be needed, but it sounds like that could just be backhaul too.

 

A number of sites haven't had a backhaul upgrade since the HSPA+ days. So, somewhat similar to the "slow B41" sites, a number of TMO sites only have 50mbps or so to share between multiple channels of HSPA+ and LTE (source - fiercemobileit). On these sites, 10x10 LTE is typically still more than enough bandwidth, but the backhaul severly limits usable data speeds/capacity.

 

That's still congestion, obviously. But it's easily solvable. Neville Ray could call Bright House / Zayo / etc tonight and double the backhaul to some of these sites in just a few days. The line has more capacity, just that no one's paid for yet.

 

The permit issue is a little bit of a red herring in some cases -- they could add extra backhaul and 15x15 LTE (assuming they have the spectrum) and never actually physically touch the site.

[richy]

 

That might be needed, but it sounds like that could just be backhaul too.

 

A number of sites haven't had a backhaul upgrade since the HSPA+ days. So, somewhat similar to the "slow B41" sites, a number of TMO sites only have 50mbps or so to share between multiple channels of HSPA+ and LTE (source - fiercemobileit). On these sites, 10x10 LTE is typically still more than enough bandwidth, but the backhaul severly limits usable data speeds/capacity.

 

That's still congestion, obviously. But it's easily solvable. Neville Ray could call Bright House / Zayo / etc tonight and double the backhaul to some of these sites in just a few days. The line has more capacity, just that no one's paid for yet.

 

The permit issue is a little bit of a red herring in some cases -- they could add extra backhaul and 15x15 LTE (assuming they have the spectrum) and never actually physically touch the site.

Thanks! Yes backhaul certainly could be an issue here although it would be one I thought they could easily fix.  Permits are an odd one here,  changing channel widths wouldn't need one add you say, same for most back haul additions but would they need additional panels for the 700MHz? The permitting system is rather strict here,  even changing a hand rail outside a restaurant required a change of elevation permit Anything close to the ocean needs to be at least evaluated for a Special Management Area permit and most cell sites locally are on hotel roofs within SMA zones. 

Any guesses what could be holding them up on wider lte channels if it's not permits or backhaul?  Just not wanting to spend extra on backhaul?  Too many legacy HSPA only devices? Or just too much to do and not wanting to rush stuff?  

[maxsilver]

but would they need additional panels for the 700MHz?

 

That's correct. To add 700mhz sectors, they'd almost certainly need a permit.

 

I mentioned the other options because, if your area is congested, they're more likely to start with those, as they don't require a permit, new hardware, or the cost to send people out to do anything. (Read: much faster, much cheaper)

 

Any guesses what could be holding them up on wider lte channels if it's not permits or backhaul?  Just not wanting to spend extra on backhaul?  Too many legacy HSPA only devices? Or just too much to do and not wanting to rush stuff?

 

I have no inside information -- this is just my observations paired with assumptions. But I've noticed this past 12 months or so that T-Mobile runs a bunch of disparate upgrades simultaneously, and they don't always line up nicely.

 

For instance, in Grand Rapids, they already have 700mhz sectors on a number of sites (and those 700mhz sectors aren't used or online yet) and they've converted about 40% of their old EDGE network to LTE, while simultaneously only running 50mbps backhaul to some urban sites, and they still don't cover a bunch of newer suburban neighborhoods near the edge of the city.  We've got these shiny new sectors just waiting to lit up. But at the same time, while they've added a lot of LTE in suburbs/exurbs here, the dead spots on the edge of town are still there, untouched and unchanged for the last six years.

 

 

So my assumption is either: 

 

- your on some teams ToDo list

- your upgrades are already happening, or

- they forgot about your area in the market.  

 

If your area is anything like it is here, all three of those could be true simultaneously.

[richy]

#3 sounds about right lol Maui County 'only' has about 180 K people across 3 Islands (and 2 more uninhabited ones) so we don't rate the same as Oahu. We do have what feels like 2 million tourists at any given time which seasonally kills certain cellular networks. 

Sprint hasn't shown much love here either,  I don't blame them given the permitting system but it's basically a 12-14 month wait for most of the permits they need so I find it odd that tmo and Sprint don't have more permits filed given both networks have a list of upgrades to do.  I can see tmo not wanting to spend anything it doesn't absolutely have to until at least the aws3 auction is done if not that and 600MHz. 

[danlodish345]

#3 sounds about right lol Maui County 'only' has about 180 K people across 3 Islands (and 2 more uninhabited ones) so we don't rate the same as Oahu. We do have what feels like 2 million tourists at any given time which seasonally kills certain cellular networks.

Sprint hasn't shown much love here either, I don't blame them given the permitting system but it's basically a 12-14 month wait for most of the permits they need so I find it odd that tmo and Sprint don't have more permits filed given both networks have a list of upgrades to do. I can see tmo not wanting to spend anything it doesn't absolutely have to until at least the aws3 auction is done if not that and 600MHz.

why buy aws spectrum its not great for the coverage only capacity and requires much more infrastructure to cover the same area... Then low band spectrum

[richy]

why buy aws spectrum its not great for the coverage only capacity and requires much more infrastructure to cover the same area... Then low band spectrum

Because tmo needs capacity ASAP in select markets and if it can pick up any additional spectrum for a fair price on other markets it will help with future needs if they continue to grow.  

 

Sprint only needs low band spectrum so it makes sense for them to miss this one,  continue NV and save cash for 600,  tmo needs low band AND any other spectrum it can get so they need to bid on anything and everything,  especially in some markets. Plus more AWS  means they can possibly get away with needing less 600 which is likely to be a bloodbath of an auction. 

[danlodish345]

Because tmo needs capacity ASAP in select markets and if it can pick up any additional spectrum for a fair price on other markets it will help with future needs if they continue to grow.

 

Sprint only needs low band spectrum so it makes sense for them to miss this one, continue NV and save cash for 600, tmo needs low band AND any other spectrum it can get so they need to bid on anything and everything, especially in some markets. Plus more AWS means they can possibly get away with needing less 600 which is likely to be a bloodbath of an auction.

ok i can agree with that and i thought the fcc is restricting the other 2 carriers from get most of the spectrum

[richy]

ok i can agree with that and i thought the fcc is restricting the other 2 carriers from get most of the spectrum

Thats correct. Maybe I'm just cynical but I can see a fight over whats left. It isnt just tmo and sprint after the spectrum reserved from the big 2, Dish, Google and Amazon could all easily make a play for it which could drive up the price for Sprint and tmo. Plus you then have the risk of speculators like Cavalier mixing it up. I could be wrong, I hope I am wrong, but I don't see even with FCC help that they are guaranteed a low priced big piece of the low band pie, it could get messy. Also with the auction pushed back, will we see a change of guard in the whitehouse affecting things? Just my opinion

[danlodish345]

Thats correct. Maybe I'm just cynical but I can see a fight over whats left. It isnt just tmo and sprint after the spectrum reserved from the big 2, Dish, Google and Amazon could all easily make a play for it which could drive up the price for Sprint and tmo. Plus you then have the risk of speculators like Cavalier mixing it up. I could be wrong, I hope I am wrong, but I don't see even with FCC help that they are guaranteed a low priced big piece of the low band pie, it could get messy. Also with the auction pushed back, will we see a change of guard in the whitehouse affecting things? Just my opinion

your actually correct and t mobile deployed wide band lte in my area...there is a t mobile tower a mile up the road from me i get 60 megs a second

[Ascertion]

This type of thing bothers me. It really shows that the consumers are blinded by hype.

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/2n42t5/tmobiles_nexus_devices_ship_without_a_carrier/

 

They go on and on about how T-Mobile is the best and listens to consumers because...wait for it...they don't brand their Nexus phones and don't install bloatware on it...meanwhile Sprints...ENTIRE lineup post Galaxy S3 has had no Sprint branding and the Nexus 5 and 6 came with no bloatware!

Okay, I'm done ranting. Carry on.

 

Sent from my LG-LS980

[caspar347]

This type of thing bothers me. It really shows that the consumers are blinded by hype.

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/2n42t5/tmobiles_nexus_devices_ship_without_a_carrier/

 

They go on and on about how T-Mobile is the best and listens to consumers because...wait for it...they don't brand their Nexus phones and don't install bloatware on it...meanwhile Sprints...ENTIRE lineup post Galaxy S3 has had no Sprint branding and the Nexus 5 and 6 came with no bloatware!

Okay, I'm done ranting. Carry on.

 

Sent from my LG-LS980

Has anyone tried to tell them that it may be impossible to activate T-Mobile Nexus 6s on other CDMA carriers? Or that the Sprint model has NO bloatware? (apparently the T-Mobile Nexus 6 has a "T-Mobile Zone" type app installed)

[Conan Kudo]

Has anyone tried to tell them that it may be impossible to activate T-Mobile Nexus 6s on other CDMA carriers? Or that the Sprint model has NO bloatware? (apparently the T-Mobile Nexus 6 has a "T-Mobile Zone" type app installed)

It does not. Exactly one application gets installed if you set up the Nexus 6 with a T-Mobile SIM in: My Account. The application is removable. Google insisted on it to show off how it can do carrier customizations on the fly for phones through Google Play Services.

[kg4icg]

Apparently Sprint has all IMEI numbers for the Nexus 6, so if anyone wanted to activate one on Sprint no matter what carrier it was on before, they can.

[coorsleftfield]

Glad they decided that making it hard to become a customer is a bad business practice.

[caspar347]

It does not. Exactly one application gets installed if you set up the Nexus 6 with a T-Mobile SIM in: My Account. The application is removable. Google insisted on it to show off how it can do carrier customizations on the fly for phones through Google Play Services.

Sounds like Sprint Zone to me. But whatever, I guess it's removable.

[A2CKilla]

Phone collectors!! I can I join that group? LOL!!!! I do that same thing, I swear I have well over 10 cell phones.

Phone collecting is great, I have one of every OS released on sprint and a few of the "rare" phones like the dual screened kyocera echo and the first full touch screen blackberry, good old 8350

[kg4icg]

Phone collecting is great, I have one of every OS released on sprint and a few of the "rare" phones like the dual screened kyocera echo and the first full touch screen blackberry, good old 8350

8350 BlackBerry Curve isn't a touch screen device. Torch and the 9930 Bold are.

[danlodish345]

T mobile beats AT&T in my area

[A2CKilla]

8350 BlackBerry Curve isn't a touch screen device. Torch and the 9930 Bold are.

Whoops wrong number 9860 was the torch

[danlodish345]

Whoops wrong number 9860 was the torch

there was a touch screen BlackBerry?

[kg4icg]

there was a touch screen BlackBerry?

There were a few OS7 touch screen BlackBerrys

[bigsnake49]

T-Mobile admits throttled speed shenanigans and agrees to stop the practice. I guess if you were throttled and decided to do a speed test, the speed test would show your regular speed:

 

http://arstechnica.com/business/2014/11/t-mobile-forced-to-stop-hiding-slow-speeds-from-throttled-customers/

Edited November 25, 2014 by bigsnake49