T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion

[S4GRU]

T-Mobile admits throttled speed shenanigans and agrees to stop the practice. I guess if you were throttled and decided to do a speed test, the speed test would show your regular speed:

 

http://arstechnica.com/business/2014/11/t-mobile-forced-to-stop-hiding-slow-speeds-from-throttled-customers/

I have long suspected AT&T does the same thing. There are times, especially the second half of my billing period, where my AT&T LTE performance plummets. It gets painful to use my device. But run a speed test and everything appears fine.

 

So then you start second guessing if you have a device problem. Or other issues. I wouldn't be surprised to find out AT&T is doing it too. Shenanigans is right.

[Ascertion]

I have long suspected AT&T does the same thing. There are times, especially the second half of my billing period, where my AT&T LTE performance plummets. It gets painful to use my device. But run a speed test and everything appears fine.

 

So then you start second guessing if you have a device problem. Or other issues. I wouldn't be surprised to find out AT&T is doing it too. Shenanigans is right.

Do the speeds stay consistent on Sensorly, Rootmetrics, etc when you're being throttled, or under the impression of it?

[S4GRU]

Do the speeds stay consistent on Sensorly, Rootmetrics, etc when you're being throttled, or under the impression of it?

Yes. And it most often happens when using my phone as a Hotspot. Even though my plan has hotspot included. I ruled out a device issue. It happens on all our Nexus 5's, my BlackBerryZ30, a Galaxy Mega, HTC 8X, Amazon Fire Phone and an LG Flex we have on our account.

[Rawvega]

• Provide a button on customer smartphones linking to a speed test that will show actual reduced speeds;
• Modify the text messages it currently sends to customers once they hit their monthly high-speed data allotment to make it clear that certain speed tests may show network speeds, rather than their reduced speed.

 

 

 

So despite this, they're obviously still going exempt Ookla from showing a customer's true speed at that point in time if they're being throttled. Not surprising though. Ookla is what they hang their hat on when they claim to have America's fastest network. Can't have throttled speed tests bringing down their average and putting that talking point in jeopardy.

[richy]

So despite this, they're obviously still going exempt Ookla from showing a customer's true speed at that point in time if they're being throttled. Not surprising though. Ookla is what they hang their hat on when they claim tocean have America's fastest network. Can't have throttled speed tests bringing down their average and putting that talking point in jeopardy.

That's not entirely unfair. Both are legitimate arguments,  people shouldn't think they are getting faster than they are but also it wouldn't be a realistic measure of the networks actual speed if it took into account throttled speeds which are only there due to the plan they are on. I think the fairest solution is to give both answers. Tmo needs all the help it can get with network speeds  

 

On a semi related note, does Verizon throttle prepay lte? Just trying to figure out why it's so freaking slow lol  

[Rawvega]

That's not entirely unfair. Both are legitimate arguments,  people shouldn't think they are getting faster than they are but also it wouldn't be a realistic measure of the networks actual speed if it took into account throttled speeds which are only there due to the plan they are on.

 

I disagree. A speed test is nothing more than a snapshot of user experience at a given time. Regardless of whether the network can provide 10 Gbps, if you're only getting 64 kbps then that's your actual user experience at that place and time. What if T-Mobile decided to de-prioritize all other network traffic in favor of certain speed tests in order to show the full potential of what their network can provide and then used those results to claim America's fastest network? Would that be not entirely unfair as well?

[richy]

I disagree. A speed test is nothing more than a snapshot of user experience at a given time. Regardless of whether the network can provide 10 Gbps, if you're only getting 64 kbps then that's your actual user experience at that place and time. What if T-Mobile decided to de-prioritize all other network traffic in favor of certain speed tests in order to show the full potential of what their network can provide and then used those results to claim America's fastest network? Would that be not entirely unfair as well?

That is most definitely not the same. Using QOS to unfairly show the flat out rate of the network disregarding congestion is not the same as not taking into account a billing related restriction. The speed test would still be an accurate representation of the speed the user, or any other user could get rather than an absolute maximum. The speed tests are supposed to give an idea of the strength of the network,  not a person's wallet. Which is more indicative of what another person could expect to achieve,  the throttled rate or the unrestricted rate which still takes into account signal strength etc? If you are throttled to 64k or 128k that isn't indicative of the network,  the limiting factor isn't the network, it's your payment. I could easily turn your argument around and say if I get suspended for non payment and run a speed test and get 0 is that representative of the network? 

[S4GRU]

That's not entirely unfair. Both are legitimate arguments,  people shouldn't think they are getting faster than they are but also it wouldn't be a realistic measure of the networks actual speed if it took into account throttled speeds which are only there due to the plan they are on. I think the fairest solution is to give both answers. Tmo needs all the help it can get with network speeds

 

On a semi related note, does Verizon throttle prepay lte? Just trying to figure out why it's so freaking slow lol  

 

I get your point, to some extent.  But shouldn't a network who does not throttle and provides a more truly unlimited experience also get a chance to show its superiority in the rankings?  If someone like Tmo gets to pretend their users devices are not throttled, it gets to unfairly compete in speed rankings against a provider who does not throttle.

 

If Tmo wants to throttle, there is a drawback to that.  And this is it.  Can't have it both ways.  And does Tmo need all the help it can get on network speeds?  Hardly.  If that's the case, Sprint needs all the help it can get.

[Rawvega]

That is most definitely not the same. Using QOS to unfairly show the flat out rate of the network disregarding congestion is not the same as not taking into account a billing related restriction. The speed test would still be an accurate representation of the speed the user, or any other user could get rather than an absolute maximum. The speed tests are supposed to give an idea of the strength of the network,  not a person's wallet. Which is more indicative of what another person could expect to achieve,  the throttled rate or the unrestricted rate which still takes into account signal strength etc? If you are throttled to 64k or 128k that isn't indicative of the network,  the limiting factor isn't the network, it's your payment. I could easily turn your argument around and say if I get suspended for non payment and run a speed test and get 0 is that representative of the network? 

 

And the bolded is text is where I will continue to disagree with you. A speed test is supposed to show the speeds that you actually did receive, not what you could receive. If it's about whatever speeds you could expect to receive, then why even have speed tests? Just let the carriers publish theoretical maximums and what they expect that users will receive and leave it at that. That's bunk imo. I don't use a speed test to show me what I could get, I use it to show me what I am getting.

 

As for your counterpoint, I believe that at least with Ookla a phone that is suspended from the network would show a "Network communication issues" error message and not upload a 0 or any data whatsoever so I don't really see that as being a valid argument.

[bigsnake49]

When I do a speedtest on my cable connection it shows me my current speed, not the speed I could achieve if I was on the most expensive and speedier tier. It shows me what my speed is right now. T-Mobile should not get a free pass and they did not. False advertising!

[richy]

Lol ok my bad  

[Keitarou]

When I do a speedtest on my cable connection it shows me my current speed, not the speed I could achieve if I was on the most expensive and speedier tier. It shows me what my speed is right now. T-Mobile should not get a free pass and they did not. False advertising!

 

Yes. You get the current speed you pay for when on cable/dsl/fios. That's what you agreed to get for the price you pay. I don't see the false advertising argument here. When you are signing up for service with T-Mobile, you get 1GB, 3 GB, 5GB or Unlimited 4G LTE service for certain price point. Afterward, you get throttled speed. So when someone runs a speed test and sees what they can get if they were not limited by their data plan, that's false advertising? And cellular isn't the same as cable/dsl/fios. You don't sign up for certain speed plan. You sign up for data limits. Very different.

 

So because T-Mobile and the customer agrees to the throttled speeds after certain data limit, T-Mobile should report the slower speed as their real speed, even though it isn't what T-Mobile can do at that point, at that location? I think what T-Mobile is going to do by letting the user get their "real" speed and also keeping speedtest apps to reflect their "potential" speed when not throttled is a fine middle ground.

[bigsnake49]

Yes. You get the current speed you pay for when on cable/dsl/fios. That's what you agreed to get for the price you pay. I don't see the false advertising argument here. When you are signing up for service with T-Mobile, you get 1GB, 3 GB, 5GB or Unlimited 4G LTE service for certain price point. Afterward, you get throttled speed. So when someone runs a speed test and sees what they can get if they were not limited by their data plan, that's false advertising? And cellular isn't the same as cable/dsl/fios. You don't sign up for certain speed plan. You sign up for data limits. Very different.

 

So because T-Mobile and the customer agrees to the throttled speeds after certain data limit, T-Mobile should report the slower speed as their real speed, even though it isn't what T-Mobile can do at that point, at that location? I think what T-Mobile is going to do by letting the user get their "real" speed and also keeping speedtest apps to reflect their "potential" speed when not throttled is a fine middle ground.

 

According to your logic and others since my cable company offers a 150Mbps per second tier and since I am a cheap son of a bitch and I only pay for 30, they should show me the 150Mbps, since my speediest will lower their average unnecessarily. I hate DPI intensely.

Edited November 25, 2014 by bigsnake49

[Keitarou]

According to your logic and others since my cable company offers a 150Mbps per second tier and since I am a cheap son of a bitch and I only pay for 30, they should show me the 150Mbps, since my speediest will lower their average unnecessarily. I hate DPI intensely.

 

You are missing the point. Cable sells service based on speed. Cell companies sell service based on gb used. Those are two different things. It's not that you are cheap or anyone who gets limited data plan is cheap. It is a choice the consumer made. Why can't a company show you what you would get if you had a 3gb plan or higher and also provide ways you can test for what you currently get because you decided to get the 1gb plan?

[eljayyy91]

You are missing the point. Cable sells service based on speed. Cell companies sell service based on gb used. Those are two different things. It's not that you are cheap or anyone who gets limited data plan is cheap. It is a choice the consumer made. Why can't a company show you what you would get if you had a 3gb plan or higher and also provide ways you can test for what you currently get because you decided to get the 1gb plan?

So then a user on t mobile (being throttled) wouldn't know it unless they checked their account. And wondering why does it say 20mbs when I can't even watch YouTube! Kinda makes em look bad too. If you ask me.

[compneo]

So then a user on t mobile (being throttled) wouldn't know it unless they checked their account. And wondering why does it say 20mbs when I can't even watch YouTube! Kinda makes em look bad too. If you ask me.

They also text you before you reach limit and once you are throttled.

[Keitarou]

They also text you before you reach limit and once you are throttled.

And they also are now going to provide the right tools to allow those who are throttled to see their real speed.

[travismheim]

You are missing the point. Cable sells service based on speed. Cell companies sell service based on gb used. Those are two different things. It's not that you are cheap or anyone who gets limited data plan is cheap. It is a choice the consumer made. Why can't a company show you what you would get if you had a 3gb plan or higher and also provide ways you can test for what you currently get because you decided to get the 1gb plan?

They should have their own speed test if they want to exempt it from data allotments. Kind of similar to how Sprint Zone will test your SMS/MMS/voice quality. They could have their own TMO app to also show speed test results. Other speed tests should be showing what you actually get, not what you could potentially be getting if you paid more.

 

I get 85/85 on my home ISP, and that's what shows when I run speed tests. This would be no different than them giving me their 500/500 package, but only for speed tests. I could pay more for the higher throughput but I don't. Consumers could pay for more wireless high speed unthrottled data, but they don't. How is that any different?

[richy]

I think we just have different expectations of what the tests should show and how we want the to work. I want them to show how fast it will be assuming I buy enough data,  i.e. the underlying network performance.  You think it should show an average of what everyone experiences and I do understand that, I just think it's less useful to me as I don't get throttled.  We disagree,  such is life it's hardly important. 

[Destroyallcubes]

I thought the point of apeed teat were to see your speeds you are receiving. If you are throttled you arent receiving high speed LTE. If i do a speed test and see 30mbps id expect something with mbps, not Kbps. In a way it is falsely presenting numbers.

[danlodish345]

I thought the point of apeed teat were to see your speeds you are receiving. If you are throttled you arent receiving high speed LTE. If i do a speed test and see 30mbps id expect something with mbps, not Kbps. In a way it is falsely presenting numbers.

Verizon isnt throttling its unlimited users but the unlimited users have a lower priority on the network

[WiWavelength]

I thought the point of apeed teat...

 

Judging by your writing skills, I think some of you were nursed by "apeed teat."

 

AJ

[Destroyallcubes]

Verizon isnt throttling its unlimited users but the unlimited users have a lower priority on the network

Its speed test results are what you actually are getting. If you are on Tmobile and are throttled, your speed test arent showing that on Tmobile. Hence is misleading.

[bigsnake49]

Its speed test results are what you actually are getting. If you are on Tmobile and are throttled, your speed test arent showing that on Tmobile. Hence is misleading.

Let's turn this discussion somewhat around. Let's say you're on a congested sector. Would you rather your speedtest show you what you could be getting if the sector was not congested or what you're actually getting? Since they have DPI they could momentarily elevate your priority to trump everybody else's so that your speed test results do not screw up T-Mobile's average. Would you be OK with that?

[Destroyallcubes]

Let's turn this discussion somewhat around. Let's say you're on a congested sector. Would you rather your speedtest show you what you could be getting if the sector was not congested or what you're actually getting? Since they have DPI they could momentarily elevate your priority to trump everybody else's so that your speed test results do not screw up T-Mobile's average. Would you be OK with that?

I want speed test to show what I get at that inatant, not a "theoretical" speed. That is the point of a speedtest, it is to show your speed at a moment in time. If you want theoretical speeds have the providers tell it on the websites. A speed test should have the same priority as a video, as a picture, as a torrent, and any other data stream. Keep speed test to show a speed at an instance in time.