Everything 800mhz (1xA, LTE, coverage, timeline, etc)

[Samappz]

Not sure, but this is terrible news and very depressing

[bigmachine]

Why aren't they pushing for an earlier date?

 

I'm just as annoyed as everyone else about this, but this is a complex operation.  Here are some highlights:

 

• San Bernardino County is the largest county in the contiguous U.S. at over 20,000 square miles.

• SB County operates 46 sites for its 800 MHz system

• 250 entities use this system

• 18,000 subscriber units

• Baseline schedule for clearing equipment is 50/day.  An acceleration plan of up to 80/day is being considered.

• There is a provision for short spacing / waivers for 27 Sprint sites.  (There is more to come on this.)

• Cost of the original project in 2008 was $338,398.68.  It is now $8,456,358 (est.).

 

SOURCE: Contract 08-1221 A-5, 5th Amendment to the FRA.

[bretton88]

That is one incredibly high cost increase for the project.

[mozamcrew]

You have to wonder why the cost over-runs were so high....

[Samappz]

Probably because sprint was not responsible for paying a big chunk of it and now they are. Also probably the same reason this has been delayed for so long.

[newyork4me]

It really is completely ridiculous. Sprint really isn't even an option for those folks in SoCal compared to the other big 3. Just too many holes without 800. And until that changes there is no way I'd use Sprint if I lived there. The times I've been in Los Angeles and San Diego, I was appalled at how inferior the Sprint network was out there compared to here in the Southeast.

 

You are so right. Sprint was a mediocre choice like T-Mobile before either low-band in SoCal. T-Mobile had a better native network (much more dense grid) but Sprint allowed for 1x roaming.  Either were cheaper than AT&T/Verizon.

 

Now that T-Mobile has low-band that they've deployed LTE on, Sprint is basically not even a choice for most of SoCal...T-Mobile has  a fantastic network and can compete on price. Sprint...well, as poor as their network performs here....let's hope the timeline speeds up a bit.

[S4GRU]

Sprint does not perform poor over all of Southern CA. It is a reasonable choice for millions of people. And not for many as well.

 

Using Tapatalk on BlackBerry Z30

[Ascertion]

I recall reading somewhere that LTE 800 would have similar reach as evdo 1900. From what I've seen everywhere in my market is it's only slightly stronger than b25, but not by much. Is it because of Ericsson's multinode panels splitting the power? I heard Ericsson is replacing their initial panels with better ones due to the initial ones not meeting Sprint's expectations. Will that help?

Sent from my M8

[JonnygATL]

Sprint does not perform poor over all of Southern CA. It is a reasonable choice for millions of people. And not for many as well.

 

Using Tapatalk on BlackBerry Z30

I wasn't slamming Sprint.  If you read between the lines, you'll infer that I was slamming SBC for taking so damn long to get their flipping job done.  

 

But, for that reason, I would never, ever consider Sprint in the areas like San Diego and Los Angeles that the IBEZ issues affect.  I have spent a lot of time there and the performance versus the other three is so lacking compared to how Sprint performs here in the East.

 

As soon as they can get 800 up and running, that will no longer be an issue.  But, for the moment, I stand by my assertion that Sprint coverage, absent 800, is too far behind the competition in Southern California. 

[Volaris]

Sprint does not perform poor over all of Southern CA. It is a reasonable choice for millions of people. And not for many as well.

 

Using Tapatalk on BlackBerry Z30

Sprint is in last place for nearly every single category in all the SoCal RootMetrics market reports. It might be ok in select areas, but as a visitor, I've found Sprint in SoCal surprisingly poor for being the second largest market in the nation. To the point where I've had to ask family members to use their AT&T/T-Mobile phone when I've been the lost driver with non-working data.

 

I recall reading somewhere that LTE 800 would have similar reach as evdo 1900. From what I've seen everywhere in my market is it's only slightly stronger than b25, bit not by much. I'd it because of Ericsson's multinode panels splitting the power? I heard Ericsson is replacing their initial panels with better ones due to the initial ones not meeting Sprint's expectations. Will that help?

 

Sent from my M8

In rural 800MHz LTE sites, I've found it can outdo 1900MHz EVDO (in one case, solid for 10 miles from the tower). But those can probably just be blasted at full power since rural Sprint towers are spaced far apart. I imagine fine tuning 800MHz LTE in cities to avoid interference is a difficult process, and even then, they might choose to keep it slightly underpowered to prevent such interference since 800MHz signal can travel quite far.

 

I feel 800MHz in combination with small cells/densification will ultimately deliver a top tier network in my market and SoCal. We've seen similar with Verizon, their 700MHz LTE still had a few 3G holes here and there, so they've been adding small cells to cover them and add capacity. I feel Sprint will do similar, and as we've seen in select markets, ultimately prevail. I'm just hoping the densification build out is quick.

Edited September 19, 2015 by Volaris

[S4GRU]

I wasn't slamming Sprint.  If you read between the lines, you'll infer that I was slamming SBC for taking so damn long to get their flipping job done.  

 

But, for that reason, I would never, ever consider Sprint in the areas like San Diego and Los Angeles that the IBEZ issues affect.  I have spent a lot of time there and the performance versus the other three is so lacking compared to how Sprint performs here in the East.

 

As soon as they can get 800 up and running, that will no longer be an issue.  But, for the moment, I stand by my assertion that Sprint coverage, absent 800, is too far behind the competition in Southern California. 

 

It's fine.  You're entitled to your opinion.  It's OK.  I just believe that there are a large group of Southern Californians where Sprint meets their needs.  And your post nearly infers that it is not a legitimate option for any of them.  LTE 800 only fills in LTE gaps.  And the way Sprint uses B26 currently, it is way overloaded and often slow.  So I think sometimes way too much is ascribed to B26 as a saving grace.  

 

Additionally, I was in the Airport/Manhattan Beach/Long Beach corridor for work a few weeks ago and thought Sprint B25/B41 worked extremely well with current site spacing.  I never lost LTE outdoors and would only lose it deep inside of buildings, where even my AT&T phone struggled with meaningful throughput.

 

I think it is more of a problem in Orange County and Eastern LA County/Inland Empire areas.  But it gets better and better every month.

[S4GRU]

Sprint is in last place for nearly every single category in all the SoCal RootMetrics market reports. It might be ok in select areas, but as a visitor, I've found Sprint in SoCal surprisingly poor for being the second largest market in the nation. To the point where I've had to ask family members to use their AT&T/T-Mobile phone when I've been the lost driver with non-working data.

 

So, they are last.  It still will be an option for millions of people.  I wouldn't even be so bold as to say no one should use Tmo in markets where they don't have B12 and they don't score well on Root Metrics.  And Tmo has much less B12 spectrum or sites deployed than Sprint does B26 around the country.

 

I'm just trying to keep the perspective realistic and not allow this discussion to go into hyperbolic extremes.  If you can't use Sprint in Southern CA, then don't.  But we have lots of members here that do.  And it's not because they are stupid nor masochistic.

[Ascertion]

It's fine.  You're entitled to your opinion.  It's OK.  I just believe that there are a large group of Southern Californians where Sprint meets their needs.  And your post nearly infers that it is not a legitimate option for any of them.  LTE 800 only fills in LTE gaps.  And the way Sprint uses B26 currently, it is way overloaded and often slow.  So I think sometimes way too much is ascribed to B26 as a saving grace.  

I think Sprint is prioritizing B26 on Triband devices to ensure handsets stay connected to LTE, while they let single-band devices utilize B25 for optimal performance.  They need a smarter plan, but for now I think that's how they have it.

[JonnygATL]

It's fine.  You're entitled to your opinion.  It's OK.  I just believe that there are a large group of Southern Californians where Sprint meets their needs.  And your post nearly infers that it is not a legitimate option for any of them.  LTE 800 only fills in LTE gaps.  And the way Sprint uses B26 currently, it is way overloaded and often slow.  So I think sometimes way too much is ascribed to B26 as a saving grace.  

 

Additionally, I was in the Airport/Manhattan Beach/Long Beach corridor for work a few weeks ago and thought Sprint B25/B41 worked extremely well with current site spacing.  I never lost LTE outdoors and would only lose it deep inside of buildings, where even my AT&T phone struggled with meaningful throughput.

 

I think it is more of a problem in Orange County and Eastern LA County/Inland Empire areas.  But it gets better and better every month.

I'm glad that you had a positive experience, especially in a heavy use area like an airport.  And I do know it is getting better.  I'm a huge Sprint supporter - trust me, I defend them every single day to at least one or two people (I'm sure we all do).

 

I suppose maybe I've been wording this wrong.  Let me try again - I firmly believe that Sprint's largest opportunity lies in Southern California.  As soon as they can get rebanding complete with SBC and bring their SoCal network up to par with the efficiency and speed with which it functions in areas like Indianapolis, Atlanta, Denver and Chicago, a new door will open up for them.  The tens of millions of people who call Southern California home are not currently getting the full Sprint experience and that's a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths.  Stopping that potential customer hemorrhaging should be - and no doubt is - a priority for them.  I just look forward to my next trip to visit friends and family in Los Angeles and San Diego being a greatly improved experience. 

[S4GRU]

I think Sprint is prioritizing B26 on Triband devices to ensure handsets stay connected to LTE, while they let single-band devices utilize B25 for optimal performance.  They need a smarter plan, but for now I think that's how they have it.

 

I think it's fine they park on B26.  But it needs to be that they move to B25 or 41 immediately when data starts to be used in any significant amount.  Ideally B26 needs to be used by only devices that have no other bands available.  If it is bogged down just because too many people are parked on B26, then they need to configure it that when B26 performance drops below 5-6Mbps in a given sector, that all the devices with B25 or B41 in sight get shunted over.  So B26 performance can be preserved for customers not in "view" of higher bands.

 

AT&T in my area is 5MHz B17 (700MHz) and 10MHz B4 (AWS).  AT&T keeps everyone on B4 if you have a useful connection.  Even it is weak.  It keeps B17 running 4-8Mbps in most places.  And even a weak B4 signal runs 10-12Mbps.  Granted, there is a reduction in battery life than if we were all parked on B17.  However, the difference is not catastrophic.  It seems if I park on B17 all day, I get 24 hours life out of my Nexus 6.  If I park on a weak B4, I get 20 hours life out of my Nexus 6.

 

Personally, I'd rather take the slight battery hit and plug in sooner than to have B17 run 500kbps-2Mbps.  It works well for AT&T and their customers don't even complain.  But their data works well everywhere they have an LTE signal here.

[S4GRU]

I'm glad that you had a positive experience, especially in a heavy use area like an airport.  And I do know it is getting better.  I'm a huge Sprint supporter - trust me, I defend them every single day to at least one or two people (I'm sure we all do).

 

I suppose maybe I've been wording this wrong.  Let me try again - I firmly believe that Sprint's largest opportunity lies in Southern California.  As soon as they can get rebanding complete with SBC and bring their SoCal network up to par with the efficiency and speed with which it functions in areas like Indianapolis, Atlanta, Denver and Chicago, a new door will open up for them.  The tens of millions of people who call Southern California home are not currently getting the full Sprint experience and that's a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths.  Stopping that potential customer hemorrhaging should be - and no doubt is - a priority for them.  I just look forward to my next trip to visit friends and family in Los Angeles and San Diego being a greatly improved experience. 

 

You don't need to word it differently for me.  You can have your view.  I can have mine.  We both can discuss them.  I'm not trying to correct you.  I'm just trying to get my voice out there too.  But thank you for trying to find common ground.

[JonnygATL]

You don't need to word it differently for me.  You can have your view.  I can have mine.  We both can discuss them.  I'm not trying to correct you.  I'm just trying to get my voice out there too.  But thank you for trying to find common ground.

Ha, thanks. Agreed. Er.....well, you get my drift.

[Joski1624]

You SoCal folks have my sympathies.  I reside inside Canadian IBEZ region 3 where 800 of any flavor still does not exist.  Despite our handicap of not having 800, 1900 still has improved simply because of the NV upgrades and Sprint tweaked the heck out of B25, so I often don't lose LTE until even the CDMA signal is sub -100dBm.  Sprint still has a reputation around here of sucking even though Cleveland is probably one of their better covered markets overall.  In building penetration, especially in rural areas, is still an issue.  And my phone hardly roams anymore because 1900 is overall better, so my battery dies even faster-especially at work.      Secondary IBEZ zones are finally getting 800, but that's all the movement there has been so far.  Overall I can't complain too much as ATT and Verizon prices are more than I want to pay

[bigmachine]

OK, you've caught us.  The whole "Sprint is subpar in SoCal" is part of a larger initiative us Californians have organized.  Whenever out-of-towners come and visit we crowd the freeways, fake a drought and temporarily tune the Sprint network to seem inferior to wherever you may be from.

 

It's our effort to say, "thanks for visiting, but please don't move here."

 

And think about it... it works doesn't it?  Who in their right mind would want to move here?

 

Our coup de grace is "Hollywood" as a tourist attraction.  Oh look it's the Hollywood sign, some stars on the sidewalk and an overweight Spider-Man who showers as often as it rains.  Those poor German tourists never make the mistake of visiting twice!

[tmiw]

I think heavily prioritizing small cell placement in Southern California would be a good stopgap for indoor coverage issues. My service in San Diego is great at work (B41 all the time except deep inside the huge building I work in), but I only get 3G at home even though the nearby towers all have B25. I wonder how many would be needed to provide near-constant B41 or at least B25 even indoors.

 

3G isn't as bad as it used to be in any case.

[WiWavelength]

OK, you've caught us.  The whole "Sprint is subpar in SoCal" is part of a larger initiative us Californians have organized.  Whenever out-of-towners come and visit we crowd the freeways, fake a drought and temporarily tune the Sprint network to seem inferior to wherever you may be from.

 

It's our effort to say, "thanks for visiting, but please don't move here."

 

And think about it... it works doesn't it?  Who in their right mind would want to move here?

 

Our coup de grace is "Hollywood" as a tourist attraction.  Oh look it's the Hollywood sign, some stars on the sidewalk and an overweight Spider-Man who showers as often as it rains.  Those poor German tourists never make the mistake of visiting twice!

 

Miami laughs at Los Angeles' countermeasures.  Miami just kills enough of the visiting international tourists to get them never to return nor move there.

 

AJ

[JonnygATL]

Miami laughs at Los Angeles' countermeasures.  Miami just kills enough of the visiting international tourists to get them never to return nor move there.

 

AJ

Oh, Miami. It's either the South American gangsters or the Colombian booger sugar (or said gangsters on said disco dust). Either way, you're dead.

[Fraydog]

Oh, Miami. It's either the South American gangsters or the Colombian booger sugar (or said gangsters on said disco dust). Either way, you're dead.

I have a female friend from Chester right now I'm trying to talk moving out of there. She lives in ghetto little Havana. She needs to come back and leave that shithole.

[ericdabbs]

These are not fast timelines...

 

It may be another year before they have B26/LTE 800 in Vegas and Southern California. I don't see why it would take that long. It seems like other large agencies got it done in 6 months.

 

NOW WE KNOW WHY SPRINT IS NOT RUSHING TO ADD 800 RRU'S IN SOUTHERN CA. Because they know it's still another year out.

 

Using Nexus 6 on Tapatalk

 

I guess the IBEZ reband effort will be done way before Sprint this SB county rebanding effort will be accomplished.   This is really terrible news that SB county has been able to get away with this crap.  Giving SB county another year to clear frequencies is ridiculous.  It should just be several months max for this type of effort.

[ericdabbs]

I think heavily prioritizing small cell placement in Southern California would be a good stopgap for indoor coverage issues. My service in San Diego is great at work (B41 all the time except deep inside the huge building I work in), but I only get 3G at home even though the nearby towers all have B25. I wonder how many would be needed to provide near-constant B41 or at least B25 even indoors.

 

3G isn't as bad as it used to be in any case.

 

I think a heavy prioritization of installing a ton of macro cells is more desirable than small cell placement at this point.  So Cal has one of the largest metro areas and simply is just a very tough market to cover even the urban areas.  There are still a ton of areas which can use multiple macro sites to just get a glimmer of reception.