Dish Network/Boost Mobile cell/5G buildout thread

[Paynefanbro]

I can't speak to the quality of Dish's network because I haven't tested it for myself but here in NYC they have a relatively mature buildout. I've seen their sites in every borough and it seems like they didn't cheap out and only collocate on sites that other carriers are already on, they are increasingly doing new builds in areas where even the Big 3 have weaker service. At this point they have hundreds of sites online here and some have posted speed tests online of up to 700Mbps in the city. That said, even if you're not on their own network, their MVNO is running on arguably the two best networks in the country, one being the fastest and the other having the most coverage.

That leads me to my next point which is, Dish could be gaining customers if they made a conscious effort to advertise their service as opposed to passively announcing deals via press release and then expecting word of mouth to do the heavy lifting. Boost as a brand was already suffering from negative mindshare due to it being connected to Sprint. A rebrand should've been step one but they doubled down on the Boost brand by launching a sub-brand called Boost Infinite specifically for postpaid service. At the very least they should've just launched it under the normal Boost Mobile brand for consistency's sake. And now they're relying on Amazon to sell Boost Infinite instead of using the existing retail network of Boost stores to sell it. It's a really confusing decision to me.

An easy win for Dish from the marketing perspective could've been on iPhone launch day just having their name listed in the buyflow alongside Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, and "Unlocked". At least then people could've known that Boost is a serious brand in competition with them and that they had a competitive deal. On Samsung's website Boost should be where U.S. Cellular's name is listed but they aren't.

It just seems like Dish isn't actually trying to succeed or that they have trouble focusing on more than one thing at a time. Maybe their end goal is to get bought out by someone like Google and have Project Fi run on their network but they know the FCC, FTC, and DOJ are not going to ok something like that unless they're in dire financial circumstance.

[BucketHead25]

https://www.lightreading.com/open-ran/charter-poised-to-pass-dish-as-nation-s-largest-mvno

Competition seems alive and well.  No love lost for Charlie Ergen after living thru his endless local TV carriage disputes.

[Trip]

2 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

I can't speak to the quality of Dish's network because I haven't tested it for myself but here in NYC they have a relatively mature buildout. I've seen their sites in every borough and it seems like they didn't cheap out and only collocate on sites that other carriers are already on, they are increasingly doing new builds in areas where even the Big 3 have weaker service.

Glad to hear they're doing it somewhere.  Because it's not in the DC area.  Very, very cheap build-out from what I can tell.  Around here it looks like they went with whatever dedicated antenna structures (monopoles, lattice towers, etc.) they could find that were covered by their master agreements with American/SBA/Crown Castle, and then filled in with a handful of building mounts where no such structures were available.  Service is very uneven.

- Trip

[4GHoward]

FYI..

https://about.dish.com/2023-11-30-The-Boost-Wireless-Network-is-Now-Live-in-Billings,-MT-Cincinnati,-OH-Columbia,-SC-Denver,-CO-Fayetteville,-NC-Jacksonville,-FL-Minneapolis,-MN-Philadelphia,-PA-Portland,-OR-Shreveport,-LA-Tucson,-AZ-and-Washington,-DC-Markets

 

[IrwinshereAgain]

10 hours ago, 4GHoward said:

FYI..

https://about.dish.com/2023-11-30-The-Boost-Wireless-Network-is-Now-Live-in-Billings,-MT-Cincinnati,-OH-Columbia,-SC-Denver,-CO-Fayetteville,-NC-Jacksonville,-FL-Minneapolis,-MN-Philadelphia,-PA-Portland,-OR-Shreveport,-LA-Tucson,-AZ-and-Washington,-DC-Markets

 

Are we saying that last years A23 5g is compatible with the new Dish network?

[RedSpark]

Dish cites T-Mobile’s low-band spectrum stash in bid for new FCC policies

https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/dish-cites-t-mobiles-low-band-spectrum-stash-bid-new-fcc-policies

[Paynefanbro]

13 hours ago, RedSpark said:

Dish cites T-Mobile’s low-band spectrum stash in bid for new FCC policies

https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/dish-cites-t-mobiles-low-band-spectrum-stash-bid-new-fcc-policies

Quote

T-Mobile has amassed significant holdings in the 600 MHz band, which would be even further enlarged by its acquisition of 600 MHz licenses from Columbia Capital and Comcast. According to Dish, T-Mobile’s 600 MHz spectrum holdings sit in the center of the band, leaving other carriers with sub-optimal, non-contiguous 600 MHz licenses that are more difficult to aggregate.

It's as if Dish has never heard about spectrum swaps before.

T-Mobile is fighting a war on two fronts with AT&T going after their midband spectrum and Dish going after their 600MHz. The end goal of both of those companies looks like they want stop T-Mobile from getting any more spectrum without some sort of divestiture. I get why they're doing this but I can't help but feel like both of them really are just sore losers that lacked foresight. 

What's even worse for Dish and AT&T is that T-Mobile has an extremely successful home internet product that justifies their need for so much capacity in the first place so they can't even say that T-Mobile doesn't need all of the spectrum they have. T-Mobile also doesn't have a history of hoarding spectrum without deploying it so they can't even point to past behavior to justify divestiture by saying they aren't going to use it. 

[S4GRU]

2 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

It's as if Dish has never heard about spectrum swaps before.

T-Mobile is fighting a war on two fronts with AT&T going after their midband spectrum and Dish going after their 600MHz. The end goal of both of those companies looks like they want stop T-Mobile from getting any more spectrum without some sort of divestiture. I get why they're doing this but I can't help but feel like both of them really are just sore losers that lacked foresight. 

What's even worse for Dish and AT&T is that T-Mobile has an extremely successful home internet product that justifies their need for so much capacity in the first place so they can't even say that T-Mobile doesn't need all of the spectrum they have. T-Mobile also doesn't have a history of hoarding spectrum without deploying it so they can't even point to past behavior to justify divestiture by saying they aren't going to use it. 

But Daddy, I WANT IT NOW!

 

[dkyeager]

19 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

It's as if Dish has never heard about spectrum swaps before.

T-Mobile is fighting a war on two fronts with AT&T going after their midband spectrum and Dish going after their 600MHz. The end goal of both of those companies looks like they want stop T-Mobile from getting any more spectrum without some sort of divestiture. I get why they're doing this but I can't help but feel like both of them really are just sore losers that lacked foresight. 

What's even worse for Dish and AT&T is that T-Mobile has an extremely successful home internet product that justifies their need for so much capacity in the first place so they can't even say that T-Mobile doesn't need all of the spectrum they have. T-Mobile also doesn't have a history of hoarding spectrum without deploying it so they can't even point to past behavior to justify divestiture by saying they aren't going to use it. 

You could say T-Mobile is hoarding mmWave and C-band/DOD. Waiting for dual band C-Band/DOD is a reasonable defense.  mmWave's best current business case is home internet for high rise apartment buildings. It will be interesting to see how much mmWave license area is abandoned in the future.  MmWave use at busy intersections may prevent this loss.

[Paynefanbro]

 

1 hour ago, dkyeager said:

You could say T-Mobile is hoarding mmWave and C-band/DOD.

While they purchased C-band a while back they only got access to their blocks of the spectrum a few months ago. And they've always made the claim that they would only begin deploying it once they got the combined C-band DoD antennas. They acknowledged as recently as a few weeks ago that they've finally started getting stock of these antennas and so far at least one site with it deployed has been found in Texas, replacing a C-band antenna they previously had installed.

I wouldn't even go as far as saying they're hoarding mmWave either. They have it deployed in quite a few cities even though it isn't nearly as widespread as Verizon or AT&T and they are (very slowly) deploying it in new places though they are mostly just high traffic venues. And while they've been alluding to it in interviews for about a year now, they finally made a public statement that they're likely going to us it for TMHI in that standalone mmWave press release they made recently.

[dkyeager]

6 hours ago, Paynefanbro said:

While they purchased C-band a while back they only got access to their blocks of the spectrum a few months ago. And they've always made the claim that they would only begin deploying it once they got the combined C-band DoD antennas. They acknowledged as recently as a few weeks ago that they've finally started getting stock of these antennas and so far at least one site with it deployed has been found in Texas, replacing a C-band antenna they previously had installed.

I wouldn't even go as far as saying they're hoarding mmWave either. They have it deployed in quite a few cities even though it isn't nearly as widespread as Verizon or AT&T and they are (very slowly) deploying it in new places though they are mostly just high traffic venues. And while they've been alluding to it in interviews for about a year now, they finally made a public statement that they're likely going to us it for TMHI in that standalone mmWave press release they made recently.

We both agree on C-band/DOD. From a PR standpoint they appear to be slacking-off compared to the duo.

Some of their mmWave licenses have build-out requirements in the next 6 months.  Many in Ohio, here are two:

https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=4019733

https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=4019734

 

[PythonFanPA]

https://ir.dish.com/news-releases/news-release-details/dish-wireless-awarded-50-million-ntia-grant-5g-open-ran

[dkyeager]

https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/dish-cuts-more-jobs-amid-spectrum-reshuffle?itm_source=parsely-api

Dish is now viewed as unlikely to take band 26 according to Entner and NSR Analysts.  This could mean $172 million for this delay to T-Mobile, but I have my doubts. More likely to be an exchange not involving further cash, such as unused or very valuable spectrum such as some of their 600MHz spectrum.

 

[dkyeager]

https://www.lightreading.com/finance/can-dish-raise-more-cash-

Dano takes a different view, but basically points to Dish not having enough money thus trying to position itself to raise more, with perhaps sales of spectrum in the summer of 2026.

To pull off being a national 4th carrier, Dish needed to execute almost perfectly.  Not having loans lined up for day 1 at much more favorable interest rates (T-Mobile did this) was the first of many mistakes. Being hacked was number 2.  So many others...

 

 

 

 

[dkyeager]

First ad I have seen referencing the iPhone that fell intacted from the plane in Portland OR:

 

 

[S4GRU]

1 hour ago, dkyeager said:

First ad I have seen referencing the iPhone that fell intacted from the plane in Portland OR:

 

 

Makes me think of DB Cooper. 

Robert

[RedSpark]

On 1/13/2024 at 12:05 PM, S4GRU said:

Makes me think of DB Cooper. 

Robert

My favorite version of DB Cooper:

We can thank him for the Cooper Vane:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooper_vane

[iansltx]

I ordered a Boost Infinite SIM a few days back, as the S24 now supports n70, and is being sold directly by Boost, though eSIM is not yet available.

Got a SIM via UPS last night...based on T-Mobile. Swung by a Boost store a few miles from me, was given a rainbow SIM, and activated it over the phone in the store.

Data speeds vary significantly depending on whether you can get n66/n70, but with those two bands available I saw peaks of nearly 600 Mbps, with comparable latency to what I've had on Project Genesis.

VoNR works fine, with 23.85 kbps AMR-WB used as the codec. Unfortunately neither Verizon nor T-Mobile have VoNR interconnection so all that extra voice bandwidth is going to waste.

Roaming is on T-Mobile, with ~80ms latency to Dish speedtest servers in Dallas/Houston, including 5G of course (NSA). Roaming speeds are great, and on both native and roaming there's no video speed cap. I was able to manually select the network I was on, but AT&T didn't show up.

We'll see whether I keep the service longer than a month since my Project Genesis line is better in every way except the whole "have to carry around two phones" part (due to the aforementioned lack of HD voice interconnection), but it'll be fun to play with on the drive between ABQ and AUS later this month.

Hopefully they sell enough of the service to keep the lights on and buy B26, as having basically a CricKet/MetroPCS-like challenger come back ten years later is good for competition, and while the network is a ghost town it's handy for e.g. livestreaming video reliably in places n41/n77 aren't as reliable (e.g. far indoors) and WiFi is flakey.

[dkyeager]

2 hours ago, iansltx said:

I ordered a Boost Infinite SIM a few days back, as the S24 now supports n70, and is being sold directly by Boost, though eSIM is not yet available.

S24 BYOD?

[red_dog007]

On 2/2/2024 at 11:05 AM, iansltx said:

I ordered a Boost Infinite SIM a few days back, as the S24 now supports n70, and is being sold directly by Boost, though eSIM is not yet available.

...

How is the transition between networks for real-time data use (streaming something) and most importantly phone calls? Have you been able to test VoNR to VoLTE and vice versa? I don't talk a lot on the phone so for me, it is no big deal.  But my SO is still the person that easily uses 1500 minutes a month, so would be negatively impacted if the transition isn't smooth.  But if VoNR/VoLTE is as smooth as VoLTE/WiFi transitions are these days, that will be fantastic. 

Also, just out of extra curiosity, does the Samsung denote a difference if you have a call over 5G.  On my Pixel I get a little symbol if the call is using WiFi or is HD.  Wondering if we may see a new one for VoNR. 

Oh also, does the phone make it easy to identify if you are on Dish or a non-Dish network? Or do you have to enter service mode or use an app to find out?

[iansltx]

On 2/2/2024 at 12:46 PM, dkyeager said:

S24 BYOD?

Yep, BYOD

[iansltx]

On 2/3/2024 at 1:42 PM, red_dog007 said:

How is the transition between networks for real-time data use (streaming something) and most importantly phone calls? Have you been able to test VoNR to VoLTE and vice versa? I don't talk a lot on the phone so for me, it is no big deal.  But my SO is still the person that easily uses 1500 minutes a month, so would be negatively impacted if the transition isn't smooth.  But if VoNR/VoLTE is as smooth as VoLTE/WiFi transitions are these days, that will be fantastic. 

Also, just out of extra curiosity, does the Samsung denote a difference if you have a call over 5G.  On my Pixel I get a little symbol if the call is using WiFi or is HD.  Wondering if we may see a new one for VoNR. 

Oh also, does the phone make it easy to identify if you are on Dish or a non-Dish network? Or do you have to enter service mode or use an app to find out?

NR to LTE would a switch from native to roaming, so 100% chance the call drops. This isn't some sort of Republic Wireless bonded calling magic. Not gonna even bother testing it

As for call symbols, easiest way is SignalCheck I think. But Dish is going to hold on super tightly to native if VoNR is set up in the market (and won't sit on native at all if VoNR isn't) so ..pretty easy to assume.

Likewise SignalCheck is going to be easier to spot for roaming vs. native, as IIRC T-Mobile roaming does *not* throw up the triangle as I guess Dish's rates are cheap enough to not care. As with the hotspot, they don't throttle, so roaming data experience may be better than native if you're picking between n71 and CA n41. Only caveat is latency.

[Trip]

So, not sure if it's just me or what.  My Boost Mobile phone with Rainbow SIM suddenly won't connect to the Dish 5G-NR.  I checked and I can force it onto T-Mobile or AT&T LTE (which are flagged as roaming), but it just sits on No Connection if I disable LTE. 

I went out today and passed at least half a dozen Dish sites, so it's not site-specific.  I can't figure out if it's the network is down in this area, or if there's something wrong with my account.

- Trip

[Trip]

I guess it was the network.  With no intervention on my part, it's back today like nothing ever happened.

- Trip

[RedSpark]

https://www.fiercewireless.com/5g/dishs-troubles-continue-more-job-cuts-departure-retail-head

It's not going well.