T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion

[centermedic]

Well, New York was another special case.  Prior to the AT&TWS merger, Cingular had no native presence in the New York metro.  T-Mobile had the same problem in California.  It was really quite embarrassing for national operators Cingular and T-Mobile to be absent from New York, Los Angeles, San Diego, and/or San Francisco.

 

So, they struck a network sharing agreement.  In essence, Cingular got to use the T-Mobile network and sell service in New York, while T-Mobile got to do likewise in California.  I suspect that is your recollection.  Then, the network sharing agreement was terminated as part of the Cingular-AT&TWS merger -- with T-Mobile buying the somewhat redundant Cingular network in California.

 

AJ

Now that makes sense and it does sound familiar.

[iansltx]

Based on your location, I have to assume that you are speaking from experience in the Carolinas.  But do not generalize from that, as the Carolinas were basically a black hole for T-Mobile -- it had no native footprint.

 

To help smooth approval of the Cingular-AT&TWS acquisition, AT&TWS (SunCom) in the Carolinas was divested to T-Mobile.  That finally gave T-Mobile a native network in Carolinas; prior to that, T-Mobile had no choice but to roam on Cingular or AT&TWS.

 

Elsewhere in the country, roaming on Cingular or AT&TWS was not common.  And that still holds true today.  When VZW and Sprint can come to terms on a national roaming agreement but AT&T and T-Mobile cannot, well, that is a failing of the latter pair.  Plus, T-Mobile data roaming allotments are a pittance.

 

Like it or not, T-Mobile is just not very roaming friendly.  In so many cases, you have T-Mobile, or you have nothing.  So, you really have to like T-Mobile to put up with that.

 

AJ

 

Correction: SunCom never was part of AT&TWS or Cingular. It was its own thing going back to its TDMA days.

 

But T-Mobile would roam on either SunCom or Cingular in NC back pre-SunCom-purchase. I remember taking an unlocked Cingular Nokia 6010 with a T-Mobile SIM to Fort Caswell (on the coast in NC) and being able to select either network, single T-Mobile didn't exist in the state.

 

But you're right; T-Mobile roaming is the exception rather than the rule.

[iansltx]

Verizon and AT&T are their own backhaul providers. T-Mobile had enhanced backhaul for a few years now, so that comparison is definitely not fair. In my testing, Sprint maintained at least 3 bars while travelling throughout Long Island. My mother's phone of Verizon dropped to 1 bar several times. Ultimately your signal inside your home is variable to different things including distance from the cell tower and where your nearest tower is. You should know upgrades are moving as fast as they can and ultimately those fast speeds are left to backhaul and whether the ISP can get it to the site in a timely matter, which it hasn't done as of yet.

 

We all wish it'd be going faster but for a project of this size, it doesn't go much faster than this. In a few years when those other 3 carriers find themselves having to upgrade their network, they'll see how hard it is to redo their whole network.

Minor correction: VZW will use whoever's backhaul is expedient. Not sure about AT&T. Maybe VZ wireline gives VZW sweetheart deals where the two both have coverage, but VZW generally operates like Sprint does from a backhaul perspective: AAV or ILEC Ethernet to the tower from whoever can make it work, and microwave relays where fiber isn't economical. Except VZW has dark fiber leases for some of its towers.

[Destroyallcubes]

It doesn't matter, A.J.

 

Yeah, T-Mobile doesn't show different colors for LTE and HSPA+, but it will still tell you what technology you've got when drop a pin on a location. Certainly, it isn't as clear as Sprint's map, which uses different colors for CDMA, WiMAX, and LTE. But the information is still there.

 

And as for the "4G" comment, don't forget that Sprint played that game, too. WiMAX is still called a 4G technology despite being classified as a 3G technology by the ITU at least a year before Sprint deployed WiMAX with Clearwire.

 

If you want to get technical, you know damn well that you can't even call EDGE "2G" or "2.5G" or whatever crazy moniker. It's classified as 3G, and that has never been revoked. But of course, you don't care about that, because aside from a brief stint by Cingular, very few called it 3G in order to be able to sell UMTS to consumers far more easily.

 

Don't get snippy over the "4G" mark. And who cares? To most people, 4G is 4G is 4G. From a performance perspective, LTE, HSPA+, and WiMAX are all fairly similar. Peak numbers are nice to crow about, but it doesn't matter beyond the first few months of a network deployment.

Yeah well it is bad when according to The T-mobile maps, that you only have Coverage in Excellent or very strong coverage areas. The LTE sites I have seen only cover up to a mile from the site, With line of site. They are over exaggerating their Maps in order to sell a service. Their maps are the worst accuracy wise. And people want coverage, not just speed. Id rather have sprint, that actually has coverage than T-mobile with "hotspots" scattered around. Sprint has been way more consistent than T-mobile Every where I have been. 

[milan03]

Those Verizon sites are likely new AWS sites. Those sites are getting done at the same pace as the Spark sites are on Sprint. Spark has been moving much faster than the initial LTE deployment on PCS because they have high speed backhaul already.

Yesterday I was in Wall Street area, and noticed these new Verizon DAS attached to the light poles. They're CDMA/LTE (B4/13) so I've decided to stand right under and started taking a bunch of photos upwards since my smartphone couldn't adjust the freaking exposure. Cop car pulled over right behind me but I kept doing my thing since I really wasn't doing anything wrong... All of a sudden a guy dressed like a euro tourist with a satchel that looks like Zach Galifianakis' from Hangover approached me asking what am I trying to do. Tried brushing him off and he pulled out his NYPD badge... Took me a while to explain myself, and it wasn't easy. At all. Apparently NYPD cameras are also on that pole way higher above that Verizon's DAS lol...

Anyways, this is the best my phone could do...

[The Dave]

Did the cop have his monkey with him?

[Conan Kudo]

Then, you need technology gradients.  Signal gradients for W-CDMA and LTE are not one and the same.

 

Face it, Neal, you are just giving T-Mobile a free pass here.  You have a clear cut T-Mobile bias.  It shows in your tweets.  More disturbingly, it shows in your ExtremeTech articles.

 

AJ

I'm not giving T-Mobile a free pass. The only reason I don't care either way is because LTE and HSPA+ performance is fairly equivalent at this stage. I get similar performance on HSPA+ and LTE, so it's not a big deal. It makes sense for Sprint and Verizon to do technology gradients because the performance delta between CDMA2000 1xEvDO and LTE is extremely large. Both Sprint and Verizon have every incentive to push LTE to as many subscribers as possible. AT&T does it because it wants to use the map as a way to help push people to LTE devices to reduce load on its HSPA network. When T-Mobile's average LTE performance jumps substantially above HSPA+, then I'll care more about technology gradients.

 

And as for my "T-Mobile bias" as you called it, I will freely admit I prefer GSM/UMTS over CDMA2000. But I give every operator a fair shot. I personally pay for service with all four national operators, and I actively keep track of network performance all over my region with all of them. I've re-acquired Sprint service through an MVNO as of three weeks ago (after dropping it in May due to cost-cutting and uselessness). I own devices for all of them and use all of them frequently.

 

And since you brought up my work on ExtremeTech, I will point out that my latest article is actually an examination and criticism of T-Mobile's claims of covering 90% of the top 25 markets with 20+20 MHz LTE (despite the weird article title). I've written good and bad things about T-Mobile, Sprint, AT&T, and Verizon. I would write more about Sprint if there was something to write about. There isn't. I've already covered Network Vision, ESMR LTE, and LTE TDD. Right now, Sprint isn't doing anything noteworthy.

[milan03]

Did the cop have his monkey with him?

Maybe in his satchel. He was definitely blending with all the tourists in that area.

[WiWavelength]

Did the cop have his monkey with him?

Maybe in his satchel. He was definitely blending with all the tourists in that area.

 

You should have told him and his monkey to respect your "authoritah."

 

 

AJ

[WiWavelength]

Not all is peachy keen on the isle of magenta...

 

https://twitter.com/nerdtalker/status/417050909294596096

 

AJ

[Nickel]

Not all is peachy keen on the isle of magenta...

 

https://twitter.com/nerdtalker/status/417050909294596096

 

AJ

[anthony.spina97]

 

Not all is peachy keen on the isle of magenta...

 

https://twitter.com/nerdtalker/status/417050909294596096

 

AJ

 

(For those who don't see it, allow me to explain, unless I don't see it and I'm just making things up)

 

"The isle of magenta" because T-Mobile only has "islands" of coverage.

 

Let that marinate in your minds for a while...

 

[The Dave]

I wouldn't even call them islands. They are more like little coral rocks that slightly poke out from the Edge of the sea.

[Nickel]

I wouldn't even call them islands. They are more like little coral rocks that slightly poke out from the Edge of the sea.

Please tell that was intentional, it was so subtle.

[MasterTruth]

NYC is covered insanely well by T-Mobile. However, Sprint has been right on their tail with site spacing.

 

In the city itself it is probably T-Mobile, Sprint, Verizon, AT&T. In the metropolitan area (Long Island, a bit of Upstate New York and parts of New Jersey and Connecticut) it goes, Sprint, Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile.

Hello!

I wish I could believe this. My gf lives in Long Island and with my iPhone 4S (just got a 5S), I had abysmal service. 

 

I tried to do some research about this and found this:

http://www.rootmetrics.com/compare-carriers/united-states/new-york/new-york-city-and-tri-state-area-november-2013/

 

We have the lowest data speeds, network reliability, call, and text reliability  in the whole tri-state region. 

[bruce]

Hello!

I wish I could believe this. My gf lives in Long Island and with my iPhone 4S (just got a 5S), I had abysmal service. 

 

I tried to do some research about this and found this:

http://www.rootmetrics.com/compare-carriers/united-states/new-york/new-york-city-and-tri-state-area-november-2013/

 

We have the lowest data speeds, network reliability, call, and text reliability  in the whole tri-state region. 

I just said that a few days ago. I wish it was true, but I think Verizon has the best site spacing. Bars don't really matter, because with Verizon on 1 bar you could do more than with a lot of Sprint sites on 5 bars. Add the fact that verizon is building platforms and new sites every week ( I know the person that builds most of the platforms for the Long Island and Manhattan areas)

I tried sprint and it did not work out. Hopefully it will work in the future. 

[Paynefanbro]

Hello!I wish I could believe this. My gf lives in Long Island and with my iPhone 4S (just got a 5S), I had abysmal service. I tried to do some research about this and found this:http://www.rootmetrics.com/compare-carriers/united-states/new-york/new-york-city-and-tri-state-area-november-2013/ We have the lowest data speeds, network reliability, call, and text reliability in the whole tri-state region.

 

For one, Sprint is on the process of an upgrade and everything has been improving. Where Sprint is ~70% Complete with NV, where only ~50% of the sites have LTE, this is a fair rating. The other 3 carriers are basically done with their buildouts here.

 

Additionally, TD-LTE is still in its infancy which is the bread and butter of being on Sprint in NYC. Sadly you picked up a device that is not able to access that. I don't know how they test call reliability and text reliability, but I've never dropped a call and I have never experienced delayed texts.

 

One last point is thag RootMetrics data is crowd sourced and they don't have nearly as large a following as Sensorly. As a result, most of their info is inner city where T-Mobile reigns supreme. I think you should check out Senorly.com and download the sensorly app to see what the network is actually like.

[MasterTruth]

I just said that a few days ago. I wish it was true, but I think Verizon has the best site spacing. Bars don't really matter, because with Verizon on 1 bar you could do more than with a lot of Sprint sites on 5 bars. Add the fact that verizon is building platforms and new sites every week ( I know the person that builds most of the platforms for the Long Island and Manhattan areas)

I tried sprint and it did not work out. Hopefully it will work in the future. 

Hello!

 

Oh yes, you are quite correct. My gf has VZW and her service is fantastic. Even on one bar, her service is quite reliable!

 

I have an AT&T MiFi from work and it has never let me down! I used to connect it to my iPhone 4S when I travel because my "3G" connection never really worked!

Edited December 29, 2013 by MasterTruth

[MasterTruth]

 

 

For one, Sprint is on the process of an upgrade and everything has been improving. Where Sprint is ~70% Complete with NV, where only ~50% of the sites have LTE, this is a fair rating. The other 3 carriers are basically done with their buildouts here.

Thanks for the reply! Why is it taking so long for Sprint? Didn't TMobile just start deploying a few months ago? How are they already done?

 

 

One last point is thag RootMetrics data is crowd sourced and they don't have nearly as large a following as Sensorly. As a result, most of their info is inner city where T-Mobile reigns supreme. I think you should check out Senorly.com and download the sensorly app to see what the network is actually like.

 

I'm not sure this is correct, my friend. 

 

According to this (http://www.rootmetrics.com/methodology/), they actually go to all the areas and test it themselves. The test was for the tri-state area (NY, NJ, CT), so it isn't just the inner city "Where T-Mobile regions supreme"

Edited December 29, 2013 by MasterTruth

[RCM]

I'm not exactly buying what's trying to be sold here today.

[Rawvega]

I'm not exactly buying what's trying to be sold here today.

 

Ain't that the truth...

[S4GRU]

Hello!

 

Oh yes, you are quite correct. My gf has VZW and her service is fantastic. Even on one bar, her service is quite reliable!

 

I have an AT&T MiFi from work and it has never let me down! I used to connect it to my iPhone 4S when I travel because my "3G" connection never really worked!

Your posts today come off as astroturfing. They seem to only be here for one reason. You either need to find a productive way of contributing to the Sprint Network Vision discussion or you will likely not be here very long. And your screen name even gives the feeling of trolling.

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

 

[MasterTruth]

Your posts today come off as astroturfing. They seem to only be here for one reason. You either need to find a productive way of contributing to the Sprint Network Vision discussion or you will likely not be here very long. And your screen name even gives the feeling of trolling.Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

So sharing my experience is trolling now?

 

Well that doesn't seem fair at all.

[S4GRU]

So sharing my experience is trolling now?

 

Well that doesn't seem fair at all.

You mean your Sprint experiences from your AT&T Mobility IP Addresses? Yes, you are a troll. And you are being sent back under your bridge, where you belong.

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

[The Dave]

So I saw a new T-Mobile commercial last night about their $0 down Samsung promotion and was surprised that they specifically singled out AT&T. Overall, the commercial seemed to feel a little too "urban low brow" stereotypical for me, but the aggressiveness of firing a shot across AT&T's bow was nice. I wonder if Sprint will start singling out the other providers once they complete more of their network.