Network Vision/LTE - East Michigan Market (Detroit/Flint/Ann Arbor/Tri-Cities)

[S4GRU]

 

Thanks Robert.

Can you guys speculate why it's taking longer than normal in this region?  Again, I'm just trying to compare apples to apples (Sprint vs. other carriers in the area).  Obviously, this is a large enough market  if ATT, Verizon, T-Mobile are on top of their game with their capacity and density.

 

 

NV1.0 actually went pretty fast in the East Michigan market.  Faster than most.  LTE is straggling on some difficult sites for backhaul.  But they are making decent progress every month.  Also, better than most markets this far along.

 

The issue with B26 is completely IBEZ related.  And they will have to go back and add 800MHz radios to each site too.  So it will not be as fast of an upgrade as B26 has been in other markets.  I think the soonest we could see B26 start going live in the Detroit area is late Spring 2015.  But I even hate saying that and possibly give false hope.  And then, even if aggressive, B26 would take 6-8 months to get full coverage.

 

B41 is starting pretty much now.  We don't have particular dates for Detroit, but Samsung is under way.  You will likely start seeing them add B41 to existing Sprint LTE sites this Fall.  We hope that they fire up each new B41 8T8R site the moment it is ready.  But we haven't seen this in other markets really.  So we don't know what to expect.  In the absolute best case scenario, Sprint could have B41 fired up on every Detroit Area site by Summer 2015.  

 

But B41 does nothing for additional coverage or in building performance.  It will just make a good percentage of the existing LTE coverage faster for Triband device holders.  It should also allow B25 to get a little faster too as traffic starts to be shunted on to the wider band.  

 

Also, Sprint will add additional B41 infill sites in between B25/B41 combo sites to provide a more uniform B41 experience and add coverage/capacity to key areas.  But the additional sites will not start coming online until late 2015 and into 2016.  As adding sites is typically a long and difficult process in most cities.

 

This is the complete 'why' background.  This is Sprint's plans going forward in your area.  And the big and most noticeable improvements are a little way off in Detroit.  The Sprint network is no longer bad for the most part around Detroit.  It is leaps and bounds better than what it was.  So, if you can hang out while Sprint continues the fight in Detroit, then that's good.  But customers who feel the new network as it is now is not good enough, well they won't see relief for awhile and should probably consider other options.  If I lived in Detroit, Sprint would meet my needs.  But it won't for everyone.

 

Robert

[madjammin]

^{NV1.0 actually went pretty fast in the East Michigan market.  Faster than most.  LTE is straggling on some difficult sites for backhaul.  But they are making decent progress every month.  Also, better than most markets this far along.}

 

^{The issue with B26 is completely IBEZ related.  And they will have to go back and add 800MHz radios to each site too.  So it will not be as fast of an upgrade as B26 has been in other markets.  I think the soonest we could see B26 start going live in the Detroit area is late Spring 2015.  But I even hate saying that and possibly give false hope.  And then, even if aggressive, B26 would take 6-8 months to get full coverage.}

 

^{B41 is starting pretty much now.  We don't have particular dates for Detroit, but Samsung is under way.  You will likely start seeing them add B41 to existing Sprint LTE sites this Fall.  We hope that they fire up each new B41 8T8R site the moment it is ready.  But we haven't seen this in other markets really.  So we don't know what to expect.  In the absolute best case scenario, Sprint could have B41 fired up on every Detroit Area site by Summer 2015.}  

 

^{But B41 does nothing for additional coverage or in building performance.  It will just make a good percentage of the existing LTE coverage faster for Triband device holders.  It should also allow B25 to get a little faster too as traffic starts to be shunted on to the wider band.}  

 

^{Also, Sprint will add additional B41 infill sites in between B25/B41 combo sites to provide a more uniform B41 experience and add coverage/capacity to key areas.  But the additional sites will not start coming online until late 2015 and into 2016.  As adding sites is typically a long and difficult process in most cities.}

 

^{This is the complete 'why' background.  This is Sprint's plans going forward in your area.  And the big and most noticeable improvements are a little way off in Detroit.  The Sprint network is no longer bad for the most part around Detroit.  It is leaps and bounds better than what it was.  So, if you can hang out while Sprint continues the fight in Detroit, then that's good.  But customers who feel the new network as it is now is not good enough, well they won't see relief for awhile and should probably consider other options.  If I lived in Detroit, Sprint would meet my needs.  But it won't for everyone.}

 

^Robert

 

^{Impressive.  I really wish I could say I full understood you.  But, thank you for the detailed info anyways!}

^{I do have a dumb question:  Why are some outside sites (like where I live in Farmington Hills, Zip: 48334 about 20 miles NW of Detroit) basically up to normal standard LTE coverage and speeds (at least good enough for me) when 20 miles down the road in the proper city are lagging behind.  My city should also be affected since I live within the IBEZ zone.  I'm guessing the towers that would hit me are part of the "difficult sites to backhaul"?}

[vryan44]

^{Impressive. I really wish I could say I full understood you. But, thank you for the detailed info anyways!}

^{I do have a dumb question: Why are some outside sites (like where I live in Farmington Hills, Zip: 48334 about 20 miles NW of Detroit) basically up to normal standard LTE coverage and speeds (at least good enough for me) when 20 miles down the road in the proper city are lagging behind. My city should also be affected since I live within the IBEZ zone. I'm guessing the towers that would hit me are part of the "difficult sites to backhaul"?}

This is just because In the city more people are within range of a certain cell site. This creates more load which yields lower speeds. Farmington isn't nearly as dense population wise, so when you connect to your home tower theoretically speeds should be higher.

[madjammin]

Thanks guys.  I do have a question for Robert.

I'm curious why you said "  If I lived in Detroit, Sprint would meet my needs."

 

Without experiencing this issue first hand, I'm surprised you believe our service is adequate.

[S4GRU]

Thanks guys. I do have a question for Robert.

I'm curious why you said " If I lived in Detroit, Sprint would meet my needs."

 

Without experiencing this issue first hand, I'm surprised you believe our service is adequate.

I didn't say your service was adequate. I said I would be a Sprint subscriber if I lived there. I have no idea what is adequate for you.

 

I receive a lot of feedback from some core S4GRU members in the East Michigan market. I know what to expect. It isn't worse than what I experienced in New Mexico without any LTE. And no matter how you slice it, Sprint is leaps and bounds better than it was before Network Vision. And I was a Sprint customer then too and loved through that.

 

Everyone's needs are different. I believe Sprint would meet my needs as my primary provider if I lived in Detroit. It does meet the needs of many of the 100k+ subscribers (guess) in the market. And some it won't. Everyone has to make up their own mind. For instance, if you lived and worked in the burbs, you may have a different opinion. Thousands and thousands of different use scenarios.

 

Sprint is not right for everyone in any market. And in some markets, maybe not for very many. And I have repeatedly acknowledged that Sprint is not in the best shape in Detroit and it will not be getting better for awhile still. So they probably have less people there who would say that Sprint is right for them. And that's fine.

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

[rocketr]

I'm in East Michigan and where I live Sprint is better then Verizon and AT&T. I'm not going anywhere and think the Sprint network works good enough. I can't wait for Band 41 and carrier aggregation across 25/41 (with 26 coming later). Sprint does need to add another b25 carrier in Detroit. Hopefully that will come soon to help throughput...

[vryan44]

I'm in East Michigan and where I live Sprint is better then Verizon and AT&T. I'm not going anywhere and think the Sprint network works good enough. I can't wait for Band 41 and carrier aggregation across 25/41 (with 26 coming later). Sprint does need to add another b25 carrier in Detroit. Hopefully that will come soon to help throughput...

you are lucky then! All of macomb county sites less rural also need a second b25 carrier.

[madjammin]

you are lucky then! All of macomb county sites less rural also need a second b25 carrier.

 

Agreed.  Like I said, especially Downtown Detroit. 

 

I have a new issue that maybe you guys can shed some light on.

 

I can't connect to LTE in Detroit.  If I throw it on Airplane mode, it will connect to LTE for about 30 seconds (and data runs much faster obviously).  Then, it automatically switches back to 3G. 

Any clue on how I can force it to keep it locked on LTE?

Thanks

[jefbal99]

Sounds like the site is having eCSFB issues

 

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

[madjammin]

Sounds like the site is having eCSFB issues

 

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

 

It's been over a week now too.

 

Is there any point to report this to Sprint directly? 

[S4GRU]

It's been over a week now too.

 

Is there any point to report this to Sprint directly?

Yes. You're in a launched market. I would. Any LTE outage of more than a few days should be reported in launched markets.

 

Robert via Samsung Note 8.0 using Tapatalk Pro

[bigmachine]

Looks like Sprint is moving up in the latest RootMetrics report:

http://www.heraldonline.com/2014/08/27/6267326/sprint-network-jointly-awarded.html?sp=/100/773/385/

 

(Hope I put this in the correct thread.)

[S4GRU]

Looks like Sprint is moving up in the latest RootMetrics report:

http://www.heraldonline.com/2014/08/27/6267326/sprint-network-jointly-awarded.html?sp=/100/773/385/

 

(Hope I put this in the correct thread.)

I guess CDMA 800 is helping more in Grand Rapids than I thought it would.

 

Robert via Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Cubbiefan82]

I can't wait to see what the next report from rootmetrics, by then they will have b41 up in most of michigan . In the chicago ohare airport test. They came in second, it is so nice to finally see that all the upgrades are starting to pay off and will only get better as time goes by

[Luuminator]

I have seen a huge improvement in coverage across the metro area going from Livonia to Warren after I got rid of my GS3 and moved to the LG G3.

[jedilow]

Well, this news is disturbing/frustrating. After wading through the mess of WiMax and finally getting 4G (which worked great initially but now the data connection drops/dies for minutes to hours on end, and I'm getting under 3 Mbps at best), the lack of pending upgrades in Detroit is starting to really push me in the direction of leaving Sprint.

 

Is there any hope that Sprint is going to do work in the downriver area anytime soon (outside of the 2015-2016 mark that Robert had)? That'll probably be the tipping issue for me - the area where I'm moving to soon (Taylor; Goddard and Allen) gets next to no service (sits at 0 bars a lot of the time, jumps up to 2-3 sometimes), almost never has 4G, and the RootMetrics report for my neighborhood showed what I've been seeing - .1 Mbps download speeds (if any).

[S4GRU]

Well, this news is disturbing/frustrating. After wading through the mess of WiMax and finally getting 4G (which worked great initially but now the data connection drops/dies for minutes to hours on end, and I'm getting under 3 Mbps at best), the lack of pending upgrades in Detroit is starting to really push me in the direction of leaving Sprint.

 

Is there any hope that Sprint is going to do work in the downriver area anytime soon (outside of the 2015-2016 mark that Robert had)? That'll probably be the tipping issue for me - the area where I'm moving to soon (Taylor; Goddard and Allen) gets next to no service (sits at 0 bars a lot of the time, jumps up to 2-3 sometimes), almost never has 4G, and the RootMetrics report for my neighborhood showed what I've been seeing - .1 Mbps download speeds (if any).

If Sprint isn't meeting your needs now, you should go. Things will improve along the timelines I listed above in this thread. Band 41 deployments are starting this quarter. But it will take some time to become widespread. Probably a year. Band 26 deployment will not begin until mid next year at the earliest.

 

For S4GRU members, most of us find that exciting. We like watching the progress. Monitoring permits and progress in the field. Seeing Band 41 work on this site and that neighborhood. We're wireless enthusiasts. So Detroit would be a fun place for us to sit back and watch the next year. And we'd be happy how the network has improved drastically from what it was while we were waiting for the next round. But we're a different animal.

 

Sprint has lowered prices to try to keep customers like you. If it's not enough to keep you around, or if Sprint doesn't meet your needs, then you should go to a Provider who does. We are not a Sprint service advocacy site. We are a wireless enthusiast site.

 

We have been frank and candid about the timelines of when things will get better for the Detroit area. Things are a lot better now than what it used to be. And if that's not enough, then the next wave of improvements to the point of being uniform across the whole market are another 1 to 1-1/2 years out. Detroit is a very different market than most.

[madjammin]

If Sprint isn't meeting your needs now, you should go. Things will improve along the timelines I listed above in this thread. Band 41 deployments are starting this quarter. But it will take some time to become widespread. Probably a year. Band 26 deployment will not begin until mid next year at the earliest.

 

For S4GRU members, most of us find that exciting. We like watching the progress. Monitoring permits and progress in the field. Seeing Band 41 work on this site and that neighborhood. We're wireless enthusiasts. So Detroit would be a fun place for us to sit back and watch the next year. And we'd be happy how the network has improved drastically from what it was while we were waiting for the next round. But we're a different animal.

 

Sprint has lowered prices to try to keep customers like you. If it's not enough to keep you around, or if Sprint doesn't meet your needs, then you should go to a Provider who does. We are not a Sprint service advocacy site. We are a wireless enthusiast site.

 

We have been frank and candid about the timelines of when things will get better for the Detroit area. Things are a lot better now than what it used to be. And if that's not enough, then the next wave of improvements to the point of being uniform across the whole market are another 1 to 1-1/2 years out. Detroit is a very different market than most.

 

No question about it.

Trust me, I think I can speak for many of us and we thank you for all the updates you provide. 

And I agree... Sprint has been very aggressive on their pricing as of late.

 

I have one question that I can hope you can clarify for me:

 

In the Ren Cen, I'm still having eCSFB type issues (LTE falling right back to 3G).  And I have that issue within a mile of the building (in downtown).  Last night, I went to Windsor, ON.  I was just on the other side of the river (right by Caesers Windsor, and could still get one bar of LTE.  It NEVER kicked back down to LTE.  Does that mean my phone connected to a different tower nearby that isn't experiencing eCSFB issue?  If that is the case, is there anyway I can report a specific tower to Sprint for them to analyze?

 

BTW... for anyone that isn't willing to wait out the 1-2 years for Sprint to fully build out, I just received my T-Mobile test drive phone in the mail.  I am going to every nook and cranny to see how it shapes up to my Sprint device.  Since this isn't the forum to report back another carriers' service, anyone that would like updates can PM directly.

[exadyne]

Is there any news on the IBEZ, when restrictions on it will be removed? I saw the overly optimistic possibility is spring 2015, but what is the reasoning behind that? The only thing I can think of is that I imagine the company that owns the iDen network in Canada is hoping to replace it with LTE, though I think I read that Canadian company is just as likely to be bought out by another operator as rebuild their own network.

[Joseph Strife]

Every since Sprint started rolling out LTE the service has been crap. I get 5-50kB/s and 3g isn't any better. I've been a sprint customer for over 12 years now and it's sad to know I can't even open a Web page in Metro Detroit.(The 13th largest city in the U.S)

[jonathanm1978]

Maybe consider a donation so you can look at the maps and get an idea of where your area is in the Network Vision rollout. I'm sure there is work being done, as to what extent, you can look in the sponsor area at how many towers are near you, which ones have work done already, and which haven't had any work done. Also the other perks that come along with being a sponsor. It doesn't take a entire paycheck...just a few bucks and you can 1)help the site by donating, and 2)see exactly what's happening.

 

Something to ponder.

[newboyx]

Every since Sprint started rolling out LTE the service has been crap. I get 5-50kB/s and 3g isn't any better. I've been a sprint customer for over 12 years now and it's sad to know I can't even open a Web page in Metro Detroit.(The 13th largest city in the U.S)

First, welcome to S4GRU.

Second, you can check market completion information here http://www.s4gru.com/index.php?/topic/212-Network-Vision/LTE-Deployment-Running-List

Detroit will see a delay in 800 LTE due to your proximity to Canada. http://s4gru.com/index.php?/topic/2358-everything-800mhz-1xa-lte-coverage-timeline-etc/ lots of posts to read through in that one.

Also, becoming a sponsor opens up a lot of information. Utilize the search feature on the forum. It will answer lots of questions. Read, read, and then read some more.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[NYC126]

Follow what the members said, also update the PRL on your phone.

[RCM]

http://s4gru.com/index.php?/topic/3227-network-visionlte-west-michigan-market-grand-rapidslansingkalamazoo/?p=365729

 

One of the LTE acceptances on today's report is the GMO conversion I noticed this week. It is in the greater Howell area. The other two GMO to full build conversions I noticed months ago had LTE go live very shortly after the NV 1.0 antennas were installed. I assume Samsung isn't converting GMOs to full build unless backhaul is ready to go???

 

[S4GRU]

http://s4gru.com/index.php?/topic/3227-network-visionlte-west-michigan-market-grand-rapidslansingkalamazoo/?p=365729

 

One of the LTE acceptances on today's report is the GMO conversion I noticed this week. It is in the greater Howell area. The other two GMO to full build conversions I noticed months ago had LTE go live very shortly after the NV 1.0 antennas were installed. I assume Samsung isn't converting GMOs to full build unless backhaul is ready to go???

 

Anecdotally, it seems this way.  All the GMO conversions I have noted so far went live with LTE with the 3G, or within a few weeks afterward.