Dish Network/Boost Mobile cell/5G buildout thread

[RedSpark]

https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/dish-says-theres-zero-chance-it-will-buy-t-mobiles-800-mhz-spectrum

Dish is throwing in the towel on its agreement to purchase all of T-Mobile’s 800 MHz spectrum licenses for $3.59 billion. In an SEC filing, Dish parent company EchoStar revealed that it is unable to get the financing necessary to pay T-Mobile for the 800 MHz spectrum licenses by the April 1 deadline. 

So much for that....

[RedSpark]

https://www.techdirt.com/2024/03/08/dish-network-the-trump-era-fix-for-the-sprint-t-mobile-merger-heads-into-its-final-death-spiral/

What a mess.

[dkyeager]

1 hour ago, RedSpark said:

https://www.techdirt.com/2024/03/08/dish-network-the-trump-era-fix-for-the-sprint-t-mobile-merger-heads-into-its-final-death-spiral/

What a mess.

My view is the merger followed closely by possible chapter 14 bankruptcy is planned by Ergen.  Whether it goes as he plans remains to seen. Stockholders usually get haircuts and suppliers take over. I assume the spectrum is legally hidden away, which will likely need to change.  Bankruptcy could also just be a terror tactic to get better terms (for now). Band 26 will be on the block.  White knight not possible until during or after bankruptcy proceedings.

I do agree that the way Dish wireless is being run is a dumpster fire.

[Paynefanbro]

Dish marks 5G drive test milestone, validating its network speeds

https://www.fiercewireless.com/5g/dish-marks-5g-drive-test-milestone

And yet barely anyone can use it. That's probably the only reason why they're able to meet these network speed milestones. 

 

[dkyeager]

24 minutes ago, Paynefanbro said:

Dish marks 5G drive test milestone, validating its network speeds

https://www.fiercewireless.com/5g/dish-marks-5g-drive-test-milestone

And yet barely anyone can use it. That's probably the only reason why they're able to meet these network speed milestones. 

 

Or maybe that is why they were holding off.

[RedSpark]

On 3/16/2024 at 9:11 AM, Paynefanbro said:

Dish marks 5G drive test milestone, validating its network speeds

https://www.fiercewireless.com/5g/dish-marks-5g-drive-test-milestone

And yet barely anyone can use it. That's probably the only reason why they're able to meet these network speed milestones. 

 

This being roughly six months later, Dish delivered the goods, but guess what? The results are under wraps because Dish considers the information to be proprietary and could result in “substantial competitive harm” if disclosed.

LMAO. What a joke.

[iansltx]

So, Dish is continuing to build out their network, it seems. Fredericksburg, TX now has n70 strong enough to be usable (100+ Mbps) indoors a few miles outside town, which means that for most of the area they're now the second-fastest network (behind T-Mobile), since neither AT&T nor VZW have C-Band deployed here.

I did lose service for a bit earlier this morning, so this coverage may have just come online and is being optimized as a result. But I'll test later with the Edge+ 2023 to see what state things are in.

[PythonFanPA]

So....this will help Dish in Colorado to some small degree, I guess?   I gotta admit I kind of started just laughing after about 10-15 seconds of reading this:

 

https://ir.dish.com/news-releases/news-release-details/boost-mobile-and-deion-coach-prime-sanders-team-new-partnership

[dkyeager]

Finally got a rainbow sim after about a year of occassionally trying. N70, n71, and n66 working on byod s24 ultra.  Speed around 550Mbps down, 40 up during rush hour:

https://imgur.com/a/ENhnSI2

[dkyeager]

On 4/10/2024 at 8:12 AM, PythonFanPA said:

So....this will help Dish in Colorado to some small degree, I guess?   I gotta admit I kind of started just laughing after about 10-15 seconds of reading this:

 

https://ir.dish.com/news-releases/news-release-details/boost-mobile-and-deion-coach-prime-sanders-team-new-partnership

Gives them some entertaining store videos.

[PythonFanPA]

5 hours ago, dkyeager said:

Gives them some entertaining store videos.

Doubt anyone outside of Colorado would care much.   And unless he shows improvement over the entire season in year 2 the Colorado contingent might slide over into the 'could care less' column too.

[dkyeager]

Drove out into the country today.  Dish stuck to my phone like glue. At least -120 rsrp. Likely only good for phone calls (should have tested.) It then switched to T-Mobile.

Getting back on Dish was another issue. I am used to dragging out coverage so I expected a few miles, but had to drive at least 10 miles towards a Dish site. Airplane mode, which worked for Sprint, did nothing. Rebooting did nothing. Finally got it to change over about 2 miles from the site by manually setting the carrier to Dish then it had great reception. Sprint used to have a 15 minute timeout but I did not have the patience today. 

Previously I did a speed test on Dish out in the country at the edge of Dish coverage. My speeds were 2g variety.

Dish has really overclocked some of these sites. Seen rssp readings in the 50s. Would have called them boomer sites with Sprint but much  more common with Dish.

 

Edited April 22 by dkyeager
added details

[dkyeager]

Definite usage quirks in hunting down these sites with a rainbow sim in a s24 ultra. Fell into a hole yesterday so sent off to T-Mobile purgatory. Try my various techniques. No Dish. Get within binocular range of former Sprint colocation and can see Dish equipment. Try to manually set network and everybody but no Dish is listed.  Airplane mode, restart, turn on and off sim, still no Dish. Pull upto 200ft from site straight on with antenna.  Still no Dish. Get to manual network hunting again on phone, power off phone for two minutes. Finally see Dish in manual network selection and choose it. Great signal as expected.

I still think the 15 minute rule might work but lack patience. (With Sprint years ago, while roaming on AT&T, the phone would check for Sprint about every fifteen minutes. So at highway speed you could get to about the third Sprint site before roaming would end).

Using both cellmapper and signalcheck.net maps to hunt down these sites. Cellmapper response is almost immediate these days (was taking weeks many months ago).  Their idea of where a site can be is often many miles apart. Of course not the same dataset. Also different ideas as how to label a site, but sector details can match with enough data (mimo makes this hard with its many sectors).

Dish was using county spacing in a flat suburban area, but is now denser in a hilly richer suburban area.  Likely density of customers makes no difference as a poorer urban area with likely more Dish customers still has country spacing of sites.

[Yuhfhrh]

On 4/24/2024 at 4:16 AM, dkyeager said:

Definite usage quirks in hunting down these sites with a rainbow sim in a s24 ultra. Fell into a hole yesterday so sent off to T-Mobile purgatory. Try my various techniques. No Dish. Get within binocular range of former Sprint colocation and can see Dish equipment. Try to manually set network and everybody but no Dish is listed.  Airplane mode, restart, turn on and off sim, still no Dish. Pull upto 200ft from site straight on with antenna.  Still no Dish. Get to manual network hunting again on phone, power off phone for two minutes. Finally see Dish in manual network selection and choose it. Great signal as expected.

I still think the 15 minute rule might work but lack patience. (With Sprint years ago, while roaming on AT&T, the phone would check for Sprint about every fifteen minutes. So at highway speed you could get to about the third Sprint site before roaming would end).

Using both cellmapper and signalcheck.net maps to hunt down these sites. Cellmapper response is almost immediate these days (was taking weeks many months ago).  Their idea of where a site can be is often many miles apart. Of course not the same dataset. Also different ideas as how to label a site, but sector details can match with enough data (mimo makes this hard with its many sectors).

Dish was using county spacing in a flat suburban area, but is now denser in a hilly richer suburban area.  Likely density of customers makes no difference as a poorer urban area with likely more Dish customers still has country spacing of sites.

The manual network selection sounds like it isn't always scanning NR, hence Dish not showing up. Your easiest way to force Dish is going to be forcing the phone into NR-only mode (*#*#4636#*#* menu?), since rainbow sims don't support SA on T-Mobile.

[dkyeager]

Excuse my rookie comments here, but after enabling *#73#, it seems that the rainbow sim V2? requires n70 (I turned it off along with n71 - was hoping to track n66) to be available else it switches to T-Mobile.  So this confirms my suspicion that you need to be close to a site to get on Dish.  Have no idea why they don't just use plmn.

To test, I put it into a s21 ultra, rebooted twice, came up on T-Mobile (no n70 on s21).  Tried to manually register on 313340, but it did not connect

(tried twice).

I am on factory unlocked firmware but used a s22 hack to get *#73# working.  Tried what you were suggesting with a T-Mobile sim partially installed, but that was very unstable with Dish ( I think they had figured that one out). 

[edit: and now I see Boost sent me a successful device swap notice which says I can now begin to use my new device.  Sigh.  Will try again later and wait for this message - too impatient.]

12 hours ago, Yuhfhrh said:

The manual network selection sounds like it isn't always scanning NR, hence Dish not showing up. Your easiest way to force Dish is going to be forcing the phone into NR-only mode (*#*#4636#*#* menu?), since rainbow sims don't support SA on T-Mobile.

[Trip]

I have my Dish phone locked to NR-only.  That keeps it on Dish and only occasionally will it see T-Mobile NR SA for brief periods before going to no service.

I also don't have mine band locked beyond that, except that I have some of the unused bands turned off just to try to reduce scan time.  Fortunately, my Dish phone is the one with the MediaTek chipset, so it has NR neighbor cells, and I can usually see n71, n70, n66, and sometimes n29 (market-dependent) through those regardless of which band it's connected to as primary.

- Trip

[dkyeager]

6 hours ago, Trip said:

I have my Dish phone locked to NR-only.  That keeps it on Dish and only occasionally will it see T-Mobile NR SA for brief periods before going to no service.

I also don't have mine band locked beyond that, except that I have some of the unused bands turned off just to try to reduce scan time.  Fortunately, my Dish phone is the one with the MediaTek chipset, so it has NR neighbor cells, and I can usually see n71, n70, n66, and sometimes n29 (market-dependent) through those regardless of which band it's connected to as primary.

- Trip

Yes! That does keep it from wandering off Dish and most importantly, reconnecting immediately (at least where there is n70). Thanks!

[dkyeager]

Noticing several things in hunting down the Dish 5g network:

1) I can not always do speed tests. I believe this is congestion. Tonight I had reasonable signal signal and it failed to start. I don't even try if my rsrp is -140. Never had any issues so far when a 1 mile or less to the site.

2) GPS is not always accurate. Can be off by a few blocks.

3) Most of the PCIs are sequential. (per site)

[Trip]

11 hours ago, dkyeager said:

3) Most of the PCIs are sequential. (per site)

This is market-specific.  As an example, in Richmond, VA, this is true.  Here in the DC area, though, two of the three PCIs are clearly part of a sequential set, but the third is clearly not.  I'm not sure why some markets are like this and some are not, but I note Richmond was one of their earlier test markets, while DC was not.

- Trip

[dkyeager]

https://deadline.com/2024/05/dish-network-echostar-bankruptcy-risk-directv-merger-q1-earnings-1235908831/

Charlie Ergen now avoiding quarterly sessions

[RedSpark]

4 hours ago, dkyeager said:

https://deadline.com/2024/05/dish-network-echostar-bankruptcy-risk-directv-merger-q1-earnings-1235908831/

Charlie Ergen now avoiding quarterly sessions

 

Asked directly by one about the company’s strategy if it “doesn’t or shouldn’t file for bankruptcy,” Akhavan said, “Our recipe is very simple, candidly. Can we push the maturities out … so that we have enough cash to operate the business? We’re very bullish about our prospects for operating the business if we have the capital to execute that. While we’re working on that financing, we aren’t sitting on our hands.”

-------

Run away from this dumpster fire.

[dkyeager]

2 hours ago, RedSpark said:

 

Asked directly by one about the company’s strategy if it “doesn’t or shouldn’t file for bankruptcy,” Akhavan said, “Our recipe is very simple, candidly. Can we push the maturities out … so that we have enough cash to operate the business? We’re very bullish about our prospects for operating the business if we have the capital to execute that. While we’re working on that financing, we aren’t sitting on our hands.”

-------

Run away from this dumpster fire.

I am seeing lots of holes in Dish's native network. Not certain it could really operate by itself to customers satisfaction.  It reminds me of former Sprint: worked great withing a mile or so of tower.

[RedSpark]

On 5/10/2024 at 1:58 PM, dkyeager said:

I am seeing lots of holes in Dish's native network. Not certain it could really operate by itself to customers satisfaction.  It reminds me of former Sprint: worked great withing a mile or so of tower.

This has all been such a farce. Just waiting for the music to stop.

[dkyeager]

Excellent discussion on Dish possibility here at 24:10:  https://the-week-with-roger.captivate.fm/episode/this-week-the-state-of-broadband-with-jonathan-chaplin

Episode 191

[dkyeager]

About 2/3 Done with finding Dish sites in Columbus traditional metro. Signal from some sites travels across the county. On a practical basis that means you might need to search a 4 county area to find a site. It also means more interference and less signal where it should be.  I would think the ideal site coverage would be half or a bit more of surrounding sites unless an edge site (ie boomer site). Comments welcome.