T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion V2

[gusherb]

When I hear "free candy" and see the coming price hikes (even if it is doubling data, but let's face it, data is cheap to provide especially if it's left unused) All I can see is that people will be paying for their "free" candy... Just a reminder that absolutely nothing is ever free. And this "uncarrier" is the most transparent yet, (to me anyway) and not transparent in a good kinda way, more like transparent in T-Mobile showing its true colors kinda way (you know, red and orange).

It's amazing how Insidious the carriers have been the last two years, especially T-Mobile.

[Fraydog]

After this price hike you'll get free candy.

 

Now if T-Mobile supporters want to argue this is all necessary for having the fastest network that reaches a lot more people, great. Just don't be like "we're giving you all this free stuff."

[Arysyn]

I've mentioned this alot, though since reading on other sites of some people basically saying the same thing in their comments, it seems the idea of just having a speed cap which people have mentioned , as I have, of 1.5mbps to 3mbps for unlimited audio/video and not restricting anyone from having their content of that type be free, would have been better than what T-Mobile is doing.

 

However, AJ has made a very insightful point of accessibility issues for those with disabilities. If they can't access that "free" content, and their content which they can access isn't free, that essentially is disability discrimination.

 

So, I'm wondering if it might be better if companies like T-Mobile who are trying to find innovative ways of promoting their content providers by offering unlimited data usage for their content without having the networks be jammed, yet not be discriminatory with their policies, these carriers might be better off with a simple speed cap for everyone.

 

I propose that cap be between 9mbps to 15mbps. There really isn't a need for anything over 15mbps on a single connection, unlike home WiFi which needs more for multiple users and some forms of multitasking. Plus, that should put a huge decrease on people doing speed tests, as they won't be showing off their 100mbps speeds they get on LTE.

[ericdabbs]

Tmobile raising the unlimited plan from $80 to $95 starting 11/15 is ridiculous. With music and video streaming as part of Music and Video Freedom, why would people still get the unlimited data plan at $95/mo which does not include the phone payment?

 

Old Plans 

1 GB = $50 

3 GB = $60

5 GB = $70

Unlimited = $80

 

New Plans (effective 11/15)

2 GB = $50

6 GB = $65

10 GB = $70 $80

Unlimited = $95

 

http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/article.php?a=16775

 

EDIT:  incorrect price for 10 GB.  Should be $80 instead of $70.

[jeffcarp]

You like candy. I get that. I like candy too. That makes it hard. But sometimes you have to say no to something that seems good, for the greater good.

 

You ultimately are saying you trust Legere to be the gatekeeper. But he will not be the only guardian of the gateways. This is about to explode everywhere.

 

#SayNo2FreeCandy

 

Using Tapatalk on Note 8.0

I get the slippery slope argument. I'm more commenting on the merits on the situation as it exists today. I'm not much of a slipper slope guy.

[richy]

I've mentioned this alot, though since reading on other sites of some people basically saying the same thing in their comments, it seems the idea of just having a speed cap which people have mentioned , as I have, of 1.5mbps to 3mbps for unlimited audio/video and not restricting anyone from having their content of that type be free, would have been better than what T-Mobile is doing.

 

However, AJ has made a very insightful point of accessibility issues for those with disabilities. If they can't access that "free" content, and their content which they can access isn't free, that essentially is disability discrimination.

 

So, I'm wondering if it might be better if companies like T-Mobile who are trying to find innovative ways of promoting their content providers by offering unlimited data usage for their content without having the networks be jammed, yet not be discriminatory with their policies, these carriers might be better off with a simple speed cap for everyone.

 

I propose that cap be between 9mbps to 15mbps. There really isn't a need for anything over 15mbps on a single connection, unlike home WiFi which needs more for multiple users and some forms of multitasking. Plus, that should put a huge decrease on people doing speed tests, as they won't be showing off their 100mbps speeds they get on LTE.

 

Are you arbitrarily picking numbers? 720p30 which is about the most you realistically need for a sub 7 inch screen can be happily served by a sub 2mbps connection, this should drop for most content types as h265 becomes better supported by hardware (something pretty much happening now). Theres no need for 4k video on mobile, nothing you do should need more than 4mbps per stream (tethering can result in multiple streams per cellular device). For better or worse peak speeds is the current wang waving contest all 4 carriers are engaged in, as ridiculous as it is I doubt we will see them move away. Some prepaid carriers already offer rate limited lte, if they brought it to postpaid then they lose another differentiation.

 

 

Tmobile raising the unlimited plan from $80 to $95 starting 11/15 is ridiculous.

 

I checked with online chat and they said 2 for 100 remains the same price which is weird. They continue to try and push people towards metered plans while raising the price on those metered plans (to drive arpu up). All the time they are forcing the big two to reduce per gb pricing. That gap is closing and they are shooting themselves in the feet, the closer they all get the more the tide will reverse. Interesting times! I dont use huge amounts of data (4gb last cycle) but have done and probably will do every now and again, bill security is nice, but the more they bump it without tangible increases in coverage the less attractive they are. It will be interesting to see how this affects portion ratios. A $15 bump is pretty high, I wonder how much stick and how much carrot is in our future.

[Johnner1999]

Tmobile raising the unlimited plan from $80 to $95 starting 11/15 is ridiculous. With music and video streaming as part of Music and Video Freedom, why would people still get the unlimited data plan at $95/mo which does not include the phone payment?

 

Old Plans 

1 GB = $50 

3 GB = $60

5 GB = $70

Unlimited = $80

 

New Plans (effective 11/15)

2 GB = $50

6 GB = $65

10 GB = $70

Unlimited = $95

 

http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/article.php?a=16775

 

 

I'd most likely would still pick up the highspeed unlimited since I like watching YouTube - which isn't included in the new promo.  As I doubt it will be....  and I'm okay with that.   

 

Over all its a better plan than Sprint or VZW has...  

[Arysyn]

Are you arbitrarily picking numbers? 720p30 which is about the most you realistically need for a sub 7 inch screen can be happily served by a sub 2mbps connection, this should drop for most content types as h265 becomes better supported by hardware (something pretty much happening now). Theres no need for 4k video on mobile, nothing you do should need more than 4mbps per stream (tethering can result in multiple streams per cellular device). For better or worse peak speeds is the current wang waving contest all 4 carriers are engaged in, as ridiculous as it is I doubt we will see them move away. Some prepaid carriers already offer rate limited lte, if they brought it to postpaid then they lose another differentiation.

 

 

 

I checked with online chat and they said 2 for 100 remains the same price which is weird. They continue to try and push people towards metered plans while raising the price on those metered plans (to drive arpu up). All the time they are forcing the big two to reduce per gb pricing. That gap is closing and they are shooting themselves in the feet, the closer they all get the more the tide will reverse. Interesting times! I dont use huge amounts of data (4gb last cycle) but have done and probably will do every now and again, bill security is nice, but the more they bump it without tangible increases in coverage the less attractive they are. It will be interesting to see how this affects portion ratios. A $15 bump is pretty high, I wonder how much stick and how much carrot is in our future.

I'm not arbitrarily picking numbers. Here is the situation :

 

Most high-end devices are at least 1080p by now, which needs 3mbps, at least, though is often recommended to be at 5mbps, or even 6mbps. Many times in the past, including recently, I have made the suggestion of having 3mbps for unlimited audio/video.

 

However, considering AJ's post about how this is a form of disability discrimination, something I'm very surprised and quite directly, angered at myself for not considering, especially because I myself am severely physically disabled, I can no longer support the idea of having certain content be unlimited, while other content is not.

 

So, its now either unlimited everything or unlimited nothing. However, as I mentioned earlier, carriers are looking for ways to promote their audio/video content and those providers who partner with them. In order to successfully do this, they need to make the access to this content be unlimited. Customers just are not going to use their paid for data for certain content, only the content that is important to them. In order to introduce those customers to new content though, they need to be enticed and not have to pay for something they are unsure of whether or not they will like that new content.

 

In avoiding discrimination, carriers could make all content unlimited, but then they'd lose money and jam their networks. Yet, if they were to choose a speed cap that would work well enough at 3mbps for all of this, even though I personally agree that is an acceptable speed for all usage, most customers would complain about it being too low in contrast with their home connections and what they currently are getting in speed.

 

Already, Cricket offers their speed cap at around 8mbps. The major carriers would want a higher speed cap than that, if they were legally forced not to discriminate content types, if these carriers still wanted unlimited to promote the content I mentioned. Plus, since Cricket is a prepaid wing of AT&T, they'd need to sell something better.

 

In thinking of what that could be, based on all the circumstances I mentioned, 15mbps is a good compromise. Not an arbitrary figure. I put alot of thought into this. If I didn't, I'd be writing stuff on here like "The cap should be at 100 something mbps mannn, because its like, wayyy cooolll and fast, and include free Netflix and Hulu, and even the adult stuff, Yeah, that would like totally rock DUDE!!!"

[reedacus25]

I think the price hike on Unlimited was inevitable, though I figured it would be drawn out over time with +5$ here and +$10 there. $15 is a materially significant price hike. The price hike itself is almost the cost of my unlimited data feature in total ($20 vs $15).

 

Net Neutrality arguments aside, I do wish this was not unlimited. This would be a fantastic deal if it was just the video throttling. Offer more data, and stretch that data further with the 'optimization' of the video. I.e. you pay $50 for enough data to watch 4 episodes of Netflix; now for the same price you get enough data to watch 8 episodes, but with BingeOn optimization, that 8 episodes gets stretched out to 24 episodes!

 

I just see this congestion really taking a toll on the network. Incentivizing use is one thing when you have tons of excess capacity, but in many areas, thats not quite the case. This leads me to my other point that I feel like BingeOn data (since the packet core already flags that data as zero listed) as de-prioritized across the network, as the "paid" data should be more valuable than the "free" candy I mean data, thus gets higher network priority, especially when a sector is under significant load.

 

Just my 2 copper Lincoln's.

[newboyx]

Tmobile raising the unlimited plan from $80 to $95 starting 11/15 is ridiculous. With music and video streaming as part of Music and Video Freedom, why would people still get the unlimited data plan at $95/mo which does not include the phone payment?

 

Old Plans

1 GB = $50

3 GB = $60

5 GB = $70

Unlimited = $80

 

New Plans (effective 11/15)

2 GB = $50

6 GB = $65

10 GB = $70

Unlimited = $95

 

http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/article.php?a=16775

I think this is the strategy to eliminate unlimited users. If Tmo kills it as an option, they are the bad guys. Instead, they slowly raise the price so that it is less appealing to new customers. As they add more "freedom" and "binge" options current $80 unlimited customers see less need for unlimited and drop to cheaper plans to save a buck or two. Eventually unlimited reaches a price point where it is just plain stupid and Tmo kills it due to lack of subscribers choosing it. You slowly reach the point where your grandfathered unlimited customers are a very small percentage of subscribers. At that point you pull away benefits (freedom and binge) from unlimited and then they can't stay under the 23GB cap and are encouraged to select one of the other throttled plans that include freedom and binge so that they can continue to use the network like they did previously.

 

Sent from my SM-T237P using Tapatalk

[S4GRU]

 

 

I think this is the strategy to eliminate unlimited users. If Tmo kills it as an option, they are the bad guys. Instead, they slowly raise the price so that it is less appealing to new customers. As they add more "freedom" and "binge" options current $80 unlimited customers see less need for unlimited and drop to cheaper plans to save a buck or two. Eventually unlimited reaches a price point where it is just plain stupid and Tmo kills it due to lack of subscribers choosing it. You slowly reach the point where your grandfathered unlimited customers are a very small percentage of subscribers. At that point you pull away benefits (freedom and binge) from unlimited and then they can't stay under the 23GB cap and are encouraged to select one of the other throttled plans that include freedom and binge so that they can continue to use the network like they did previously.

 

Sent from my SM-T237P using Tapatalk

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner. You're absolutely right.

 

This all about a way to get people off unlimited. And the cost for doing this is going to be catastrophic in the long run to consumers. Because it will be awful when picked up by the Duopoly and ruthless ISP's.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Arysyn]

I think this is the strategy to eliminate unlimited users. If Tmo kills it as an option, they are the bad guys. Instead, they slowly raise the price so that it is less appealing to new customers. As they add more "freedom" and "binge" options current $80 unlimited customers see less need for unlimited and drop to cheaper plans to save a buck or two. Eventually unlimited reaches a price point where it is just plain stupid and Tmo kills it due to lack of subscribers choosing it. You slowly reach the point where your grandfathered unlimited customers are a very small percentage of subscribers. At that point you pull away benefits (freedom and binge) from unlimited and then they can't stay under the 23GB cap and are encouraged to select one of the other throttled plans that include freedom and binge so that they can continue to use the network like they did previously.

 

Sent from my SM-T237P using Tapatalk

I don't think $95 monthly for unlimited data really is a bad price point, though they ought to raise the deprioritization level with it to 30mbps and add a gb to tethering from the new 14gb offering, to 15gb.

 

I see a huge problem with the pricing on the other plans forcing people to accept this new 480p standard of watching videos on their 1080p and 2k smartphone. If it were a simple thing of putting a speed cap that would accept the standard of video, which currently is 1080p, then that would be fine, as long as it still would be network friendly. As I've said, along with others I've seen mention in their comments on other sites, 3mbps would do just that. Regarding the disability issue, I'm thinking their ought to be some sort of plan exception, though I'm not sure how that could be done exactly.

 

Yet back to my issues with the lower data plans, besides what I just mentioned. The data offerings are not high enough for people who don't use audio/video data, though use other forms of data not covered under T-Mobile's "free candy" policy, as has been coined here by others today. The price of the given data is too expensive considering all that and also T-Mobile's network not being all that great.

 

Right now, Sprint, even after the $10 rate hike on unlimited data, still is a much much better value than T-Mobile's Trick by Treating.

[ericdabbs]

I don't think $95 monthly for unlimited data really is a bad price point, though they ought to raise the deprioritization level with it to 30mbps and add a gb to tethering from the new 14gb offering, to 15gb.

 

I see a huge problem with the pricing on the other plans forcing people to accept this new 480p standard of watching videos on their 1080p and 2k smartphone. If it were a simple thing of putting a speed cap that would accept the standard of video, which currently is 1080p, then that would be fine, as long as it still would be network friendly. As I've said, along with others I've seen mention in their comments on other sites, 3mbps would do just that. Regarding the disability issue, I'm thinking their ought to be some sort of plan exception, though I'm not sure how that could be done exactly.

 

I think $95 is a horrible price point considering Music and Video Freedom introduced.  Yes it doesn't include Youtube in that group (thank goodness) but still compared to Sprint's recent hike of the unlimited data plan to $70/mo with 3 GB hotspot, I find it hard that an additional $25/mo more justifies the cost despite the 14 GB hotspot.  

 

I think with Tmobile bumping the 5 GB plan to 10 GB and for some reason keeping the $70/mo was a good move by them.  Personally I think the $70 plan is probably the most attractive plan option for a single line user because it provides a large enough bucket in 10 GB even for the hardcore youtube users to use and when watching Netflix/Amazon/Hulu, you are on Video freedom.  Those grandfathered into the 2 for $100 unlimited promo from a 1.5 years ago are sitting pretty.

[Arysyn]

I think $95 is a horrible price point considering Music and Video Freedom introduced. Yes it doesn't include Youtube in that group (thank goodness) but still compared to Sprint's recent hike of the unlimited data plan to $70/mo with 3 GB hotspot, I find it hard that an additional $25/mo more justifies the cost despite the 14 GB hotspot.

 

I think with Tmobile bumping the 5 GB plan to 10 GB and for some reason keeping the $70/mo was a good move by them. Personally I think the $70 plan is probably the most attractive plan option for a single line user because it provides a large enough bucket in 10 GB even for the hardcore youtube users to use and when watching Netflix/Amazon/Hulu, you are on Video freedom. Those grandfathered into the 2 for $100 unlimited promo from a 1.5 years ago are sitting pretty.

You make some good points, Eric.

 

I completely overlooked something in my post you quoted, that I had mentioned in another post I had made. That is T-Mobile's network just isn't good enough at that rate.

 

I'll make a correction. $95 monthly for unlimited might be a good rate for something like GoogleFi, or on a combined network of T-Mobile and Sprint. For T-Mobile as it is, ought to be less.

 

Again, I was thinking strictly price point based on the offerings, if the network was up to par. Right now though as a T-Mobile customer upset I can't locate the off switch for binge-on, even after following the instructions to do it on the T-Mobile support site, my mind is preoccupied with stress from this. I don't want this restriction at 480p.

[derrph]

What we all are seeing the real John coming out this is what his true mission is with T-Mobile. They are in a pretty good position so now we have price hikes. He did say that he couldn't promise your unlimited data price won't increase. T-Mobile is slowly but very hidden is becoming like "dumb and dumber" the only difference is there is no overages. All of this was to be expected. People will begin to drop there unlimited plans due to the major Data drainers are now free. Exactly what John wants. It's masked so good very few see it. Sprint is slowly turning this way too.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[EvanA]

Not only is T-Mobile increases prices on their "Simple Choice" plans, they're now modifying data stash to cap at 20GB.  This change is for all customers with an opt-out, and customers have until December 16th to do so.  If you choose to opt out, you don't get the benefit of BingeON either. See the FAQ: http://explore.t-mobile.com/csmx84783

[Fraydog]

Well, if DT isn't selling, they have to make profit some way. Might as well raise prices when they're adding consumers hand over fist. 

 

Growth may slow but that enables some cash to go back to the Fatherland and T-Mobile can pour some more of that extra money in small cells as well. I'm not opposed to that. Actually I'm for it. Just don't be like "it's free stuff" and then act like there isn't a greater overall cost. 

[gusherb]

Not only is T-Mobile increases prices on their "Simple Choice" plans, they're now modifying data stash to cap at 20GB.  This change is for all customers with an opt-out, and customers have until December 16th to do so.  If you choose to opt out, you don't get the benefit of BingeON either. See the FAQ: http://explore.t-mobile.com/csmx84783

 

Was there no cap before? I honestly never thought about if data stash had a cap or not, just knew it had a 12 month expiration. Talk about sneaky sleazeballs. May as well name uncarrier "re-carrier" now. Next uncarrier will probably be a pitch about how sending out a vacuum to suck your pockets and savings accounts dry is the best thing since sliced bread and how you couldn't live without it. 

[EvanA]

Was there no cap before? I honestly never thought about if data stash had a cap or not, just knew it had a 12 month expiration. Talk about sneaky sleazeballs. May as well name uncarrier "re-carrier" now. Next uncarrier will probably be a pitch about how sending out a vacuum to suck your pockets and savings accounts dry is the best thing since sliced bread and how you couldn't live without it.

There was no limit to the stash before.

[cortney]

Not only is T-Mobile increases prices on their "Simple Choice" plans, they're now modifying data stash to cap at 20GB.  This change is for all customers with an opt-out, and customers have until December 16th to do so.  If you choose to opt out, you don't get the benefit of BingeON either. See the FAQ: http://explore.t-mobile.com/csmx84783

Yuck, everything of this event stunk. I wonder if Legere got in bed with McAdam.

 

After all, pink is just a lighter shade of red. 

 

 

 

Although, I have to admit I focused too much at first on even the NN crap and didn't see the price hikes. They really are professional trolls. You have to do the extra digging yourself or you're going to miss something their fanboy base or damage control trolls aren't going to divulge. 

 

http://www.theverge.com/2015/11/11/9713874/t-mobile-unlimited-data-plan-huge-price-hike (apologies if already posted)

[cortney]

Was there no cap before? I honestly never thought about if data stash had a cap or not, just knew it had a 12 month expiration. Talk about sneaky sleazeballs. May as well name uncarrier "re-carrier" now. Next uncarrier will probably be a pitch about how sending out a vacuum to suck your pockets and savings accounts dry is the best thing since sliced bread and how you couldn't live without it. 

 

The red check's been doing it for over a decade, now we can do it better.

 

Because we can! 

 

[Arysyn]

T-Mobile just keeps getting worse, which unfortunately I'm stuck having, until either certain circumstances get me back on the Everything Data 1500 plan line, or else a good enough promotion gets unveiled by AT&T or Verizon, because Sprint's current rate plus the cost of a device lease is too expensive for me, considering what I could have been paying with the situation I mentioned earlier this year with the Framily plan. Although I know now not to be as harsh about it towards Sprint as I was then, because the problem really was at the retail level.

 

Sprint at the company direct phone contact level and support is much more helpful. Too bad I didn't try getting on the Framily plan through there when I had the chance. Now despite hoping I can get back on Sprint through someone's Everything Data 1500 plan line who kindly offered it to me is able to work with Sprint on doing that, rather than dealing with the retail stores as we tried, but they just are not helpful in this.

 

So, if I don't get back on Sprint, which has got to be by next week, as I don't trust T-Mobile at all, I'll have to go to a different carrier. I'm not seeing any place in my account settings for being able to turn off "binge on", despite following T-Mobile's instructions in how to do so, where to find the setting switch, etc. It simply isn't there. Unlike Sprint's nice and helpful customer support, I don't want to call T-Mobile and have one of Legere's minions ridicule me for wanting to turn their crap 480p tech off.

[joshuam]

So, if I don't get back on Sprint, which has got to be by next week, as I don't trust T-Mobile at all, I'll have to go to a different carrier. I'm not seeing any place in my account settings for being able to turn off "binge on", despite following T-Mobile's instructions in how to do so, where to find the setting switch, etc. It simply isn't there. Unlike Sprint's nice and helpful customer support, I don't want to call T-Mobile and have one of Legere's minions ridicule me for wanting to turn their crap 480p tech off.

 

It's not live until Nov 19th on legacy plans. The new plans get it starting Nov 15th. You won't see the option until its live.

[Camcroz]

I'm not seeing any place in my account settings for being able to turn off "binge on", despite following T-Mobile's instructions in how to do so, where to find the setting switch, etc. It simply isn't there.

It probably won't show up until November 19 since bingon doesnt start till then

 

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk

[derrph]

Idk if this was addressed with the family plans. Will there be a option to have a line that is truly unlimited? So if I have three lines and I want one with no data wall what would be the charge for that line? The individual unlimited is going to be $95

 

 

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