Marcelo Claure, Town Hall Meetings, New Family Share Pack Plan, Unlimited Individual Plan, Discussion Thread

[Deval]

I can't say much to that, Deval, because these HiFi streaming services are so few and aren't sold by the carriers directly, at least as of yet. I think as higher quality audio becomes more mainstreamed, it will become important to more people. I remember when audio quality wasn't really that big of a deal for me, then I heard music on the LG V10 and was instantly sold on better quality audio just through the 320kbps audio file at the time. With more smartphones having advanced dac/amp systems in place with people discovering that,, they will want better capability from their carrier.

 

I'd also argue with Sprint just having this limit alone. I can understand the video limit, as video streaming can take a big toll on networks, However, pushing a limit on audio doesn't make much sense, and as I've mentioned, I think Sprint will change this eventually, especially if they carry the LG V20. 

 

Compression quality will help with that in the future, and I truly believe that you are probably the only person on this site, probably anyone anywhere, who actually cares about that.

 

What you're conveniently forgetting is that there is an option to buy-up if necessary if the 1%'ers want that option.

 

If I'm buying a car and want a sunroof and heated seats, I would have to buy-up to a higher trim model. Otherwise I can enjoy driving a car with 4 wheels, since both trim models have 4 wheels.

[Mr.Nuke]

How do I find the local regional manager for Minnesota(great plains area)? I fouind Luke langer, but he seems to be for sales.

It is McMahon and he has responded to me via twitter in the past.

[Deval]

Not at all implying Sprint is being shady. It does clearly say about the limits on their site, etc.My mention was if salespeople don't let customers know about it, then it can be a problem. Furthermore, the 50% discount was a mess for many customers who've complained about it online getting different quotes and such, which makes the plan seem complicated. People generally don't like complications, and things like speed limits on various uses (unlike a clear, flat speed cap on everything), adds complication to customers having to go over every form of use of theirs and make sure their experience level is met by the speed limit given.

 

It is easier to say "will show up to 480p" for video, than "up to 500kbps" audio streaming", as many customers may not know what that means. You're right when you say many won't care, but then there are those who will and still may not know what this limit means, until they try listening to HiFi audio. Granted, at this moment, there are a majority of people stuck on low bitrate Spotify and happy with it. However, time will likely change things with people going the HiFi route.

 

How do you know what reps tell customers? 5 complainers does not mean all reps are not sharing all the pertinent information because 10 customers did get it.

 

Also, the fact that people DO NOT like complications is the reason why these Unlimited Freedom plans were created.

 

Also, and again, you can simply choose to pay $20 more and get all the streaming you want.

[dedub]

 

It is easier to say "will show up to 480p" for video, than "up to 500kbps" audio streaming", as many customers may not know what that means. You're right when you say many won't care, but then there are those who will and still may not know what this limit means, until they try listening to HiFi audio. Granted, at this moment, there are a majority of people stuck on low bitrate Spotify and happy with it. However, time will likely change things with people going the HiFi route.

 

Like others I think this argument has gone on long enough.

 

1) the restrictions are not even in force yet

2) 'as many customer may not know what that mean's' if they don't know what it means, then they won't know to care or complain either.

3) even with all the higher quality improvements in newer devices and using super high quality expensive headphones, anyone who cares about quality that much is going to be using LOSSLESS audio direct from device storage/memory card. Not streaming. And those 1% who are streaming tidal/other 500k+ streams are probably not going to be on this plan, and if they do they can opt pay the extra if it really bothers them that much, or switch carriers.

4) If sprint does get enough complaints, they can and will change the plan as appropriate. Going on and on repeatedly here does nothing and will have zero effect on what sprint will or won't do in regards to audio throttling/compression/optimizations.

[Arysyn]

There seems to be a big misconception that HiFi audio streaming is a thing, so let's put that to bed.

ITS NOT.

Tidal has, what? 3 million subscribers? And at most, what 20% is subscribed to HiFi? And out of them, how many actually REALIZES there's a difference, or is even using proper equipment? Real audio people don't stream HiFi, they buy FLAC. I'm sure the 10 people on Sprint with Tidal HiFi aren't even on Unlimited Freedom, nor notice a difference.

 

 

Did anyone even buy the V10? I never see those things. I saw like 2 in the past year. Also, what makes you think Sprint will carry the V20? They could say it doesn't sell and not carry it. Furthermore, people don't really care about audio. If they did, Beats wouldn't sell like hot cakes.

 

 

Compression quality will help with that in the future, and I truly believe that you are probably the only person on this site, probably anyone anywhere, who actually cares about that.

 

What you're conveniently forgetting is that there is an option to buy-up if necessary if the 1%'ers want that option.

 

If I'm buying a car and want a sunroof and heated seats, I would have to buy-up to a higher trim model. Otherwise I can enjoy driving a car with 4 wheels, since both trim models have 4 wheels.

 

People do care about audio. There are two very large audio enthusiast forums online with thousands of members very passionate about audio, particularly HiFi audio through headphones :

 

http://www.head-fi.org/

http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php

 

Basically what I'm saying is people who do want HiFi audio, which I'll agree isn't the majority, but they are growing. This combined with there being more advanced audio HiFi-capable smartphones will want enough speed to stream HiFi audio to these smartphones.

 

Regarding the LG V20, I'm not sure if it will or won't be available for Sprint, only saying if it is, then people will want streaming speeds capable for HiFi using Sprint, at least those customers interested in it. Again, may not be a whole lot now, but eventually quite possibly.

[avb]

Are people lining up to sign up for Tidal High Fidelity (which is $20/month)?  Are they even signing up for Tidal?  The big players are Spotify, Apple Music, and maybe Google Play music.  Their high quality streaming tops up at 320Kbps, so the 500Kbps is plenty of headroom.

Edited September 1, 2016 by Dkoellerwx
they're/their/there

[Mr.Nuke]

People do care about audio. There are two very large audio enthusiast forums online with thousands of members very passionate about audio, particularly HiFi audio through headphones :

You are talking about a really niche market segment. It is akin to people who care enough about wireless networks to post on a site dedicated to one carrier. I don't believe Deval's "on one cares" was meant to be taken literally. That said, the needs of a niche market shouldn't outweigh the economic and network realities of the company as a whole.

[dedub]

"500kbs audio streaming is enough for anyone!" ~ Marcello 2016

[Arysyn]

How do you know what reps tell customers? 5 complainers does not mean all reps are not sharing all the pertinent information because 10 customers did get it.

 

Also, the fact that people DO NOT like complications is the reason why these Unlimited Freedom plans were created.

 

Also, and again, you can simply choose to pay $20 more and get all the streaming you want.

 

 

Like others I think this argument has gone on long enough.

 

1) the restrictions are not even in force yet

2) 'as many customer may not know what that mean's' if they don't know what it means, then they won't know to care or complain either.

3) even with all the higher quality improvements in newer devices and using super high quality expensive headphones, anyone who cares about quality that much is going to be using LOSSLESS audio direct from device storage/memory card. Not streaming. And those 1% who are streaming tidal/other 500k+ streams are probably not going to be on this plan, and if they do they can opt pay the extra if it really bothers them that much, or switch carriers.

4) If sprint does get enough complaints, they can and will change the plan as appropriate. Going on and on repeatedly here does nothing and will have zero effect on what sprint will or won't do in regards to audio throttling/compression/optimizations.

 

As I've said, I doubt the speed limitation is going to be on Sprint for long. I really wasn't arguing this, nor do I believe anyone who've responded to me have, as its been fair conversation on both sides.

 

Time is going to see what develops with this, and I've certainly given my opinion on it from what I see/read happening in audio.

 

Edit Note : I needed to pause my response there, as something happened here I needed to deal with. Now for the moment I can be more responsive to these quotes.

 

I've mentioned that there are people who do care about streaming audio quality, and there are more than 1% of subscribers who do, otherwise there wouldn't be as many phones focus on audio as there are. Such as the LG V10 and V20, HTC 10, ZTE Axon and Axon 7, ZTE Nubia Z11 which may come to the U.S. soon, along with Sony's many Xperia smartphones that have various HiFi audio elements to them. So, while I wouldn't put a percentage to the number of people interested in HiFi audio, it certainly is more than 1%,

 

Again, Sprint will likely evaluate the need of having the limit and will change it, something I suspect will be more likely to happen if they get the LG V20 with those audio enthusiasts going to Sprint. Its certainly something of a wait and see thing, but as mentioned I think this is going to become more important of an issue.

[Mr.Nuke]

As I've said, I doubt the speed limitation is going to be on Sprint for long. I really wasn't arguing this, nor do I believe anyone who've responded to me have, as its been fair conversation on both sides.

 

Time is going to see what develops with this, and I've certainly given my opinion on it from what I see/read happening in audio.

Quit quoting multiple long posts. Your post here didn't need to quote anyone at all.

[mnjeepmale]

It is McMahon and he has responded to me via twitter in the past.

I did tweet something last night about no coverage in a particular area and the only response from him was he liked the tweet.

 

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[Arysyn]

Quit quoting multiple long posts. Your post here didn't need to quote anyone at all.

I was going to edit my post to be more responsive to those quotes when I got extra time. Something occurred here I needed to attend to a moment ago.

 

Edit :  I now have a more thorough response on that post.

[dedub]

I consider myself an audio enthusiast, and I get to listen to my headphones at work pretty much everyday all day.

 

I stream google play music at high quality, with some decent but not overly expensive headphones.

 

Even so I recognize that there are little to no benefits of 500k+ audio in the vast majority of scenarios that involve mobile device audio (or similar device without cellular).

 

Most sane people who are into audio also understand this.

 

While I believe audio quality is important, I recognize it is more important to myself than for others. And while I don't like any limits, I also believe the 500k audio limit in 99% of the cases will be sufficient for all but the 'audiophool'. And for those people, they can gtfo anyway.

 

Like it goes @ hydrogen audio; ABX test or stfu.

[greenbastard]

Even so I recognize that there are little to no benefits of 500k+ audio in the vast majority of scenarios that involve mobile device audio (or similar device without cellular).

 

Once I get past 128 kbps in MP3 quality, I stop noticing the difference in audio fidelity. And this is coming from a guy who gets easily bothered by XM Radio's 'underwater' audio quality.

 

320 kbps is overkill with todays compression technology. Anyone that notices the difference is being picky. Most iHeartRadio live streams are 48 kbps AAC and they sound way better than what is coming out of the FM dial.

[Trip]

Once I get past 128 kbps in MP3 quality, I stop noticing the difference in audio fidelity. And this is coming from a guy who gets easily bothered by XM Radio's 'underwater' audio quality.

 

320 kbps is overkill with todays compression technology. Anyone that notices the difference is being picky. Most iHeartRadio live streams are 48 kbps AAC and they sound way better than what is coming out of the FM dial.

 

I can tell the difference between 128 and 192 kbps MP3 pretty easily, especially when it comes to cymbal crashes.  Beyond 192 kbps, though, it gets very hard to tell.  Even still, all my music is stored locally and encoded in Q8 OGG Vorbis (~300 kbps) just to be safe (and since disk space is no issue), and I cannot tell the difference from a FLAC source, and I grew up in a house with an audiophile.  I can't imagine why anyone would want to stream something higher than that over a wireless network except to be vindictive toward other users.

 

- Trip

[BlueAngel]

I can tell a difference between 320 and lossless, it's a really faint difference but it is there. But I also have no problem with 320 streaming from Spotify, sounds great for mobile.

 

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Edited September 2, 2016 by BlueAngel

[JeffDTD]

If steaming HiFi audio is a priority for a user, then by all means sign up for a verizon plan and enjoy the freedom to stream (and pay for) the highest quality there is. As for the rest of us, lets hope carriers are able to continue to manage traffic in ways that allow unlimited to be offered. It's absurd to me that anyone shopping a budget carrier, whether sprint Tmo or a prepaid carrier- expects unlimited HiFi steaming at a cut rate price

 

 

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[nexgencpu]

If steaming HiFi audio is a priority for a user, then by all means sign up for a verizon plan and enjoy the freedom to stream (and pay for) the highest quality there is. As for the rest of us, lets hope carriers are able to continue to manage traffic in ways that allow unlimited to be offered. It's absurd to me that anyone shopping a budget carrier, whether sprint Tmo or a prepaid carrier- expects unlimited HiFi steaming at a cut rate price

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I use Tidal on HiFi with zero issues on Sprint.

[JustinRP37]

People are far more likely to be able to tell the difference between SD video resolution and HD video as compared to the difference in the audio being discussed here. Especially in MOBILE situations. If you are an absolute audiophile, then listening to headphones while commuting will still not give you a wonderful experience with distractions all around. Sure be an audiophile at your work desk, home couch, or on the toilet. All of those areas should have WiFi and much quieter surroundings than a mobile environment. I do not get why this discussion has been going on for so many pages. Arysyn, this is a non-issue. There are still millions of people that listen to Sirius XM and FM in their cars and portable radios, and guess what millions pay for Sirius XM, which via satellite is very compressed.

[jeffcarp]

I did tweet something last night about no coverage in a particular area and the only response from him was he liked the tweet.

 

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That's a common way to save a tweet you want to come back to later.

[Fraydog]

http://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/verizon-s-shammo-to-step-down-as-cfo

 

No more Shamwow. Hopefully Verizon replaces him with a more progressive financial mind that is willing to try more innovative plans and go out to acquire more spectrum.

 

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[Arysyn]

Well, everyone has different hearing and their own opinion of audio.

 

Truth is, I use to think about audio the same way everyone here on this page has posted responding to. Also, had it not been for my experience listening to a song on the LG V10, I would agree with everything others here have said, and still there are valid points made about audio here. If a person cannot tell the difference in audio, then certainly there isn't a need to pay tra for that level of audio, nor for a wireless plan that enables that quality level of audio streaming based on what is available.

 

Although, my thinking regarding audio undoubtedly has changed since listened to music on the V20 using its ESS Sabre dac/amp.. An audio enthusiast friend of mine from Connecticut who spends thousands of dollars on this high-level audio stuff way beyond what I'd even be willing to spend, and he is an expert on this stuff much more than me, use to try talking me into audio for the year or so I knew him prior to my having the V10, and pretty much a lot of it I thought was fluff.

 

However, I couldn't deny the validity of at least a certain level of it after the V10 listening experience and I took much more interest in what he had to say about it since then, even though still I think some of it is a bit overboard, such as spending lots of money on old fashioned tube amplifiers, etc. Yet, a few higher quality amp/dacs in a smartphone that make a big difference compared to the integrated Snapdragon audio stuff, yes surely that is well worth the upgrade for me and many others as well.

 

Finally, while it doesn't mean everyone will hear the difference or appreciate it, I think in the least audio should be at CD-level quality, both the music and the streaming source. In that sense, Tidal HiFi isn't really HiFi in the class of 24-bit and 32-bit audio these amps/dacs are capable of, but at least give the listener a quality level that has been standard now for many years. At least its how I see the issue.

[Arysyn]

http://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/verizon-s-shammo-to-step-down-as-cfo

 

No more Shamwow. Hopefully Verizon replaces him with a more progressive financial mind that is willing to try more innovative plans and go out to acquire more spectrum.

 

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

This is very good news!

 

I wonder if his replacement will be more likely to reinstate some form of high-speed Unlimited Data, then when the tech media asks why the change of mind when Verizon supposedly was so against it under the leadership of Shammo, they can respond saying that was a different time, or was only the opinion of that person (meaning Shammo), and that Verizon never really was against the idea. It'll be interesting...

[lordsutch]

Another highlight from the call - they're looking to get rid of 3G only sites (at least in NYC) by ramping up GMO LTE deployment.

 

Hopefully they finally get around to upgrading the remaining 3G sites nationwide.

[ase500]

 

 

I have to be honest here. This is the most absurd conversation on audio I have ever read. I own studio equipment and use AKG headphones and I am going to tell you this. The average person can't tell the difference between Mp3 320 and FLAC and the average Audiophile doesn't stream music. We (audiophiles) love music, we take our FLAC files and put them on our phones. Also most of us don't expect the same level of quality of sound from our phones. This is why phones that focus on audio sell so poorly even to audiophiles. There simply is no way to have the same quality of audio in a portable device as one would have with professional level audio systems. I am never going to expect a portable device to power a 300 ohm pair of headphones nor do I think semiopen back headphones are going to be practical for public spaces. With all of this in mind I don't think sprint is going to have a bunch of angry audiophiles on it's hands. End of discussion.

 

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