Marcelo Claure, Town Hall Meetings, New Family Share Pack Plan, Unlimited Individual Plan, Discussion Thread

[nexgencpu]

Lets not forget 2100 AWS penetrates better than 2500 also Tmobile has more sites capable of 4x4 MIMO than Sprint does. Sprint still has thousands of sites still using 20mhz or less of spectrum 25/26 and no band 41 in site. I don't think small cells or clear equipment are even capable of 4x4 MIMO but correct me if I am wrong.

I think if Sprint can duplicate the speed of the NYC small cell deployment in other markets (a bit slower as most of the ones here are wimax conversions) we are in for a treat. Here we will have about 130 small cells live within the next 6 weeks or so (in only a matter of 3 months total). All running on a single B41 carrier so far (capable of 2xCA and yes no support for 4x4MIMO) Which is not a huge deal considering they only cover between 3-5 block radius.

 

I have come to the realization that small cells will be the answer for big cities, its clear why Verizon has held the title for so long (probably for not much longer in cities)

[Terrell352]

I have always heard that Sprint has the most advanced equipment and LTE tech around but Tmobile says not so fast we have it. Which carrier truly has it and how many LTE-A technologies does Sprint have deployed?

 

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[dnicekid]

Yet im sitting here in the middle of the worlds biggest city with my lil bro, me connected to a small cell on 47th street hitting 60mbs+ while he is connected to a congested B4 20x20+B12 5x5 CA tower on Tmobile hitting 2mbs...

 

 

 

Yesssss!!!

[NYC126]

I never said Sprint problem it's the spectrum. Their problem is the lack of money period.  The previous two management crippled the company. 

 

In 2014 Hesse and Saw showed a chart in Chicago that Sprint 3x carrier aggregation on 4x4 MIMO would have peak speeds of 600 megabits down, and 8x8 MIMO 1.6 gigabits speeds. 

 

The problem is,  sprint needs 8t8r radios in every tower and every market is mostly 50% or less with the exception of Las Vegas and Chicago. 

 

Are the 8T8R equipment future proof ? Yes but the company doesn't have the cash  to compete with a Verizon  and Tmobile on network right now. I am afraid by the time Sprint has their financial problems solved the others will be into those high bands and 5G. Sprint spectrum advantage diminish by the day. 

[bigsnake49]

What's the deal or real world advantage to the higher QAM level? Does it allow more bits to pass in each packet?

 

 

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Higher QAM is only applicable close to the site. At the edge it'll be 16QAM, with 64QAM in the middle and 256QAM close. Both the site and the UE have to support it.

Edited September 6, 2016 by bigsnake49

[laqn1283]

One huge advantage that most people do not mention about Sprint is that the huge spectrum gives sprint the power to provide these small cells with wireless backhaul where as competitors most likely must use fiber.  This translates to a lot less recurrent expense for Sprint.  Am I correct?

[utiz4321]

One huge advantage that most people do not mention about Sprint is that the huge spectrum gives sprint the power to provide these small cells with wireless backhaul where as competitors most likely must use fiber. This translates to a lot less recurrent expense for Sprint. Am I correct?

Yes, but everything comes down with sprint's ability to execute on deployment. This has not been sprint's strength and the slashing of capex seems to point to them having a difficult time delivering.

 

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[avb]

One huge advantage that most people do not mention about Sprint is that the huge spectrum gives sprint the power to provide these small cells with wireless backhaul where as competitors most likely must use fiber.  This translates to a lot less recurrent expense for Sprint.  Am I correct?

 

Is that much of an advantage vs just using microwave?

[payturr]

Is that much of an advantage vs just using microwave?

You gotta lease microwave & use different antennas other than cell site antennas.

[payturr]

One huge advantage that most people do not mention about Sprint is that the huge spectrum gives sprint the power to provide these small cells with wireless backhaul where as competitors most likely must use fiber. This translates to a lot less recurrent expense for Sprint. Am I correct?

Yes but it also affects quality of service. If the tower is burdened, the small cell is also burdened. It's ideal for more rural/suburban small cells, while Ethernet is superior for major city implementations. NYC small cells run off Ethernet.

[Fraydog]

I wish we could get this discussion going on T4GRU and talk more about the T-Mobile side of this.

 

That said, Sprint's issue is money. I think SprintNYC got it right here. I think Sprint has much better management NOW, unfortunately they have to run out of the issues caused by Forsee and Hesse combined with the year Masa sat there doing nothing, waiting for Legere. That is hard when the father company won't add capital and is more focused on other endeavors like ARM. 

 

I honestly feel for the people like John Saw and Gunther Ottendorfer. They came in, cleaned up a mess, but can't compete with Neville Ray because they aren't even given the opportunity to match capital more or less. More scrutiny has to go over them and frankly over Marcelo for that matter and straight toward Masa. They are doing the best they can under very difficult circumstances but they can't fully compete with T-Mobile on network expansion and fully getting 4x4 MIMO and 256 QAM running let alone Verizon and AT&T because the capital budget isn't there. 

[avb]

You gotta lease microwave & use different antennas other than cell site antennas.

 

Sure, but if you use b41 for backhaul wouldn't you need dedicated antennas to beam the signal from one tower to the other?  Or can you do that with the existing panels and not degrade the b41 signal that's being used for cell reception?  The original tower that's providing the backhaul, whether it's microwave or b41, would need enough/faster backhaul to provide for multiple towers so the backhaul cost itself wouldn't be different between b41 or microwave would it?

[Deval]

This is exactly what I meant by sprint always being behind. It was taken as complaining. This is a prime example, Tmo has changed out (based on the article) the hardware or whatever was needed to do 4x4. Sprint has announced 3xca in one or 2 cities. How the hell does Tmo and vzw get all this work done on towers while sprint can't seem to get past permits?? It just seems like sprint has all these issues while everyone is building out. We know they cut back spending... How will you keep up if you can't keep the build outs going??? Is this some sneaky stuff by masa to try and merge?? Is this him tired of putting money in and trying to sell??

It certainly doesn't seem like the masa/Marcelo team that said in 2 years sprint would have the best network..

 

The question is how many of their 40,000 sites actually have the 4x4 hardware installed?

 

Or is this just a press release knowing full well that 90% of the base has no way of verifying.

[payturr]

Sure, but if you use b41 for backhaul wouldn't you need dedicated antennas to beam the signal from one tower to the other? Or can you do that with the existing panels and not degrade the b41 signal that's being used for cell reception? The original tower that's providing the backhaul, whether it's microwave or b41, would need enough/faster backhaul to provide for multiple towers so the backhaul cost itself wouldn't be different between b41 or microwave would it?

You use the original Band 41 antennas that are used for regular users (hence UE Relay - user equipment). Generally speaking the back haul should be good so long as it's 1Gbps and scalable. So again, less expensive but at the cost of network performance for regular users.

[red_dog007]

Yeah, I think with the capital budget, Sprint would largely shift towards small cell deployments.  It seems like they have, but we don't really have the numbers. The budget that they do have would be a ton of small cell sites and would really strengthen up their core markets (cities).

 

I don't really mind the lack of coverage so long as they have strong roaming agreements.  300MB is plenty for me when I leave the coverage area.  I just wish that EVDO on VZW worked more often then not.  

[Deval]

The idea behind small cells is to have fewer user on each cell. This is part of the reason they are so good at increasing capacity.

 

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Eh, not so much.

 

The Nokia Mini-Macros they are using in NYC for example have the same capacity as macro cells.

[utiz4321]

Eh, not so much.

 

The Nokia Mini-Macros they are using in NYC for example have the same capacity as macro cells.

My understanding is they cover less area. If the area is smaller they have less users.

 

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[payturr]

Mini macros are also vastly more expensive in terms of equipment and energy.

[WiWavelength]

The question is how many of their 40,000 sites actually have the 4x4 hardware installed?

 

Or is this just a press release knowing full well that 90% of the base has no way of verifying.

 

The T-Mobile 4x2 MIMO sites always have been 4x4 MIMO capable.  Both it and higher order modulation are just software upgrades, hardly heavy lifting.  T-Mobile simply was waiting for compatible devices.  How beneficial 4x4 MIMO and higher order modulation will be, though, is questionable.  We need to see stats on real world utilization rates.

 

AJ

[Deval]

My understanding is they cover less area. If the area is smaller they have less users.

 

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They aren't made to replace macro coverage, just supplement it. So in NYC for example, every user that parks on a small cell and surfs the web takes off the load from the macro cell, which frees up capacity for inbuilding coverage.

[Deval]

The T-Mobile 4x2 MIMO sites always have been 4x4 MIMO capable.  Both it and higher order modulation are just software upgrades, hardly heavy lifting.  T-Mobile simply was waiting for compatible devices.  How beneficial 4x4 MIMO and higher order modulation will be, though, is questionable.  We need to see stats on real world utilization rates.

 

AJ

 

So my question still stands.

 

How many of their sites are 4x2 MIMO? 

[lilotimz]

The question is how many of their 40,000 sites actually have the 4x4 hardware installed?

 

Or is this just a press release knowing full well that 90% of the base has no way of verifying.

More than half.

 

The entire nokia footprint is capable immediately. Ericsson needs a bit of retrofitting via 4x4 capable air32/ rrus32.

 

If anything it's att and Verizon who has the lack of 4x4 mimo capable equipment since they primarily have 2x4 or 2x2 equipment.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5X

[Deval]

More than half.

 

The entire nokia footprint is capable immediately. Ericsson needs a bit of retrofitting via 4x4 capable air32/ rrus32.

 

If anything it's att and Verizon who has the lack of 4x4 mimo capable equipment since they primarily have 2x4 or 2x2 equipment.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5X

 

Interesting, so Verizon and AT&T have more work ahead of them.

[Trip]

300MB is plenty for me when I leave the coverage area.  I just wish that EVDO on VZW worked more often then not.  

 

I wish my roaming cap was 300 MB; it would be enough.  My 100 MB makes me nervous on months I venture into US Cellular land...

 

- Trip

[Brynn0823]

Got to say pretty impressive

 

https://newsroom.t-mobile.com/news-and-blogs/lte-advanced.htm

 

 

 

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If you dislike Sprint that much then why don't you leave ? Some of us actually have great service like myself in SoCal. Yes they have a sketchy past but I rather them take their time and get it done right then rush it and not be reliable something some T-Mobile users say when they're on band 12 in some markets

 

 

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