T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion

[jamisonshaw125]

I'm still having the most difficult time believe the edge to LTE conversion time schedule Legere has quoted in the past. Is it feasible that they can have their sites converted that fast....including having backhaul installed.

[cdk]

I'm still having the most difficult time believe the edge to LTE conversion time schedule Legere has quoted in the past. Is it feasible that they can have their sites converted that fast....including having backhaul installed.

 

According to the fanboys, Legere just says so and it is done.

[runagun]

T-mobile tower by me had fiber put in 2 months ago while lte got installed maybe three weeks ago. They were their maybe about 4 days to install everything. I can see it happening.

 

I'm still having the most difficult time believe the edge to LTE conversion time schedule Legere has quoted in the past. Is it feasible that they can have their sites converted that fast....including having backhaul installed.

[Paynefanbro]

They're using enormous amounts of microwave whereas Sprint is using microwave more as a last choice.

[jamisonshaw125]

They're using enormous amounts of microwave whereas Sprint is using microwave more as a last choice.

Interesting. I hope Marcelo has already looked into temporary solutions for backhaul at the remaining sites and is doing something about it. If he is focusing on the network as much as he should be, he should see those remaining sites that have not had backhaul installed as very important. 

[CaptainSlow]

Insightful interview.

 

http://www.cnet.com/news/t-mobile-ceo-on-passing-sprint-put-a-fork-in-it-theyre-done/

Funny that he's saying some of the same things about Sprint that people said about T-Mobile at the beginning of Uncarrier. Someone's starting to sound worried [emoji6].

[jbom]

At the Goldman conference today Neville said they've acquired 9 million more pops of 700Mhz. He also said that he heard the 600Mhz auction may get pushed to 2016. 

 

I'm still having the most difficult time believe the edge to LTE conversion time schedule Legere has quoted in the past. Is it feasible that they can have their sites converted that fast....including having backhaul installed.

 

Because they're not ripping the equipment out, only what needs replacement. LTE will run using the antennas already on the tower

Edited September 12, 2014 by jbom

[lilotimz]

At the Goldman conference today Neville said they've acquired 9 million more pops of 700Mhz. He also said that he heard the 600Mhz auction may get pushed to 2016.

 

 

Because they're not ripping the equipment out, only what needs replacement. LTE will run using the antennas already on the tower

Aka LTE GMOs.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[S4GRU]

Aka LTE GMOs.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

They may be able to do LTE GMO via AWS or PCS, if they have those antennas already there.  But they will not be able to do 700MHz GMO's as they don't have any existing 700 capable antennas out there.  They may use ground mount radios, but they are going to have to use new panels for any 700 deployments.

[Fraydog]

So the 600 MHz auction keeps getting pushed back? Great. /s

 

Sprint has to be more concerned with it's own business at this point. That said, T-Mobile slashed prices at the beginning of Uncarrier (then reinflated them in certain areas like unlimited plans.)

[richy]

Man I always feel so dirty after reading these comments about fellow tmo subs
 
Interesting times, I have to admit I was expecting bigger news but such is life. Tmo is pretty much done its first wave of upgrades (the lte addition) and has started on the edge upgrades. A permit is here
http://kivanet10g.co.maui.hi.us/kivanet/2/permit/summary/index.cfm?pid=474355&jur=MAUI
Not sure how quick they will get backhaul to it though. 
 
The network itself is its usual off self, plenty of areas where even the LTE is swamped, plenty of areas where 20mbps is routine. Town centers and areas tending towards lower average earnings (not sure how best to put that) tend to be the slowest whereas resort areas and middle to upper class housing areas tend to be much faster. Still cant get over 25mbps anywhere, not that you really need to, but I guess 'wideband' hasn't arrived. 
 
As much as I hate to do anything but throw rocks at the GrandBieber a few of his comments in the interview above were reasonable. Sprint and Tmo may trade subs, often with a greater flow in one direction or another, but both companies need to take on the big two and focus on that. Thats where the growth and the money is. It's a big battle, Sprint is better resourced to do it in the long run. 
 
When I moved here 5 years ago I asked around and did my research and spoke with folks before getting a phone and the big 4 basically went as
 
verizon - expensive but it works, old fashioned in their attitude
at&t - evil, expensive, network isnt as good here
sprint - as good as verizon but cheaper and unlimited data
tmo - for when you cant pass a credit check or you are lucky enough to get signal between your house and work.
 
I went with sprint, but my impression is that for a couple of years sprint got lost but it can reform that image. In many places it probably has. Sadly here we are still waiting for lte but thats as much the permitting systems fault as sprints. Tmo still appears to be just about keeping up with demand but their network is already showing strains and their plans for expansion are beginning to run out of steam. Do they have the money to bid on aws3 and 600mhz and buy up the remaining 700MHz and deploy all of those and convert the edge to lte and expand their footprint. Thats a big ask when your parent company isn't investing anything.


 

[jbom]

Sprint is most definitely not as good as Verizon (who have their own issues). If they were, they wouldn't have lost customers in the last 27 out of 28 quarters. That's going back to 2007-2008, 6 years of almost consecutive losses! I have friends in Dallas who moved to Sprint in early-ish 2012 from T-Mobile, and are now leaving again because of coverage issues. 

 

For me in South Florida coverage has never been better, the difference from early 2012 is huge. The towers near me however are not wide band yet, just AWS 10x10 and there's no 4x2 yet so upgrades are most definitely not yet complete. And since only rich neighborhoods get upgraded according to you, then work must still be going on because T-Mobile's the towers is right next to the multi-million dollar mansions

[Boosted20V]

Sprint is most definitely not as good as Verizon (who have their own issues). If they were, they wouldn't have lost customers in the last 27 out of 28 quarters. That's going back to 2007-2008, 6 years of almost consecutive losses! I have friends in Dallas who moved to Sprint in early-ish 2012 from T-Mobile, and are now leaving again because of coverage issues. 

 

For me in South Florida coverage has never been better, the difference from early 2012 is huge. The towers near me however are not wide band yet, just AWS 10x10 and there's no 4x2 yet so upgrades are most definitely not yet complete. And since only rich neighborhoods get upgraded according to you, then work must still be going on because T-Mobile's the towers is right next to the multi-million dollar mansions

I believe he was making the statement that areas where subs use their devices instead of a home internet connection are slow. These tend to be areas with people who are lower down the socioeconomic ladder. Not that Tmobile isn't upgrading these areas, it's just much more saturated.

[S4GRU]

I believe Richy was saying this was the general opinion of people in Hawaii a few years ago when he was researching providers. I don't think he is talking about researching carriers in 2014.

 

Back in 2010, pre 4G especially, Sprint was better than VZW in many ways. Sprint 3G performed very well, often better. And Sprint roamed on Alltel and Verizon 3G, for a huge coverage advantage. And Sprint was less expensive.

[milan03]

But only VoLTE calls will hand off to Wi-Fi. So LTE dropping seamlessly to HSPA doesn't help you there. Also, even if T-Mobile gets LTE up and running across its entire network in 9 months, LTE doesn't have the same reach as HSPA which will still end up causing issues with handoffs. I agree they've done the best with what they have but it is not an ideal solution.

Yeah their VoLTE is available across the entire LTE footprint, that's 234 Million pops at the moment. So the addition of IMS based VoWiFi to VoLTE handoffs is just a next generation WiFi Calling, and an enhancement to their WiFi Calling service they've been offering over the past 7 years. Then there is also a seamless eSRVCC handoff from VoLTE to 3G/2G Voice.

 

So if you're currently in non LTE coverage area, nothing is being taken away from you as you can still benefit from the regular WiFi Calling. Oh, and a free high quality 802.11ac router that normally costs $200.

[richy]

I believe Richy was saying this was the general opinion of people in Hawaii a few years ago when he was researching providers. I don't think he is talking about researching carriers in 2014.

 

Back in 2010, pre 4G especially, Sprint was better than VZW in many ways. Sprint 3G performed very well, often better. And Sprint roamed on Alltel and Verizon 3G, for a huge coverage advantage. And Sprint was less expensive.

This, so very much Sorry if I wasn't clear. It was specifically this market (Maui / Hawai'i where the three main companies have it covered, only tmo is lacking and then its in places like east Maui). From when I first came here in 2002/2003? through moving here Sprint was basically as good as the best (especially with roaming to fill in any gaps) with unlimited to cover your ass from bill shocks (rather than to allow network abuse) but for less money. Tmo has managed to pull its ass out of the fire which is impressive but looking forward they are denigrating their own brand, they're going to need to be the first operator to launch an mvno to reach more upmarket customers They need to know what Sprint already knows, if you want to take customers from the big two you have to understand their demographics, these are generally the people who are ok with paying 200 a month for 2-3 lines, so rather than offer them it half price you have to offer a better service for a little less price. Sprint can do that long term, tmo cannot without a huge chunk of good luck and a large infusion of cash.  

 

Tmo phone plus prepay verizon lte tablet seems to be working pretty well right now but if load keeps increasing on tmo, lets just say I hope Sprint gets lte here asap!

 

As for rich neighborhoods, what I meant was that the towers in the poorer neighborhoods have more load on them, not that they haven't been upgraded. Based on permits nearly every tower has been upgraded which was kinda my point, even the upgraded (i.e. LTE not just hspa) network is overcrowded in certain areas so the future is less rosy for tmo. No wideband yet but thats probably a year away.   

 

If absolutely nothing else, I am very happy there is choice beyond at&t and vzw

[Deval]

I saw T-Mobile's first WIFI calling ad yesterday, all they said was that they were the first carrier to offer WiFi calling, and that customers could make every WiFi hotspot a cell tower.

[Paynefanbro]

I saw T-Mobile's first WIFI calling ad yesterday, all they said was that they were the first carrier to offer WiFi calling, and that customers could make every WiFi hotspot a cell tower.

 

T-Mobile is always talking around their coverage issues.

[WiWavelength]

I saw T-Mobile's first WIFI calling ad yesterday, all they said was that they were the first carrier to offer WiFi calling, and that customers could make every WiFi hotspot a cell tower.

 

For its Free Mobile subsidiary, Iliad puts customized Wi-Fi routers on its subscribers' premises in France to expand and fill in its wireless network for all subs to use.  Hmm, coincidence?  Is no one talking/writing about this potential connection?

 

AJ

[cdk]

I saw T-Mobile's first WIFI calling ad yesterday, all they said was that they were the first carrier to offer WiFi calling, and that customers could make every WiFi hotspot a cell tower.

 

Cough Republic Wireless Cough

[reedacus25]

Cough Republic Wireless Cough

T-Mobile's WiFi calling dates back to 2006 when the UMA Nokia 6136 and Samsung t709 were beta tested that summer.

 

T-Mobile has finally started advertising something they've had for 8 years...

[milan03]

Cough Republic Wireless Cough

What about Republic Wireless?

[Conan Kudo]

For its Free Mobile subsidiary, Iliad puts customized Wi-Fi routers on its subscribers' premises in France to expand and fill in its wireless network for all subs to use.  Hmm, coincidence?  Is no one talking/writing about this potential connection?

 

AJ

That was specifically asked at the event. Legere said that they aren't doing it because of the security issues regarding it, which is partly why there's so much backlash at Comcast for doing it (the other part being that Comcast is doing it without asking subscribers for permission first). He said that if T-Mobile can figure out a way to securely offer such capability, they may do it. But for now, they won't.

[WiWavelength]

That was specifically asked at the event. Legere said that they aren't doing it because of the security issues regarding it, which is partly why there's so much backlash at Comcast for doing it (the other part being that Comcast is doing it without asking subscribers for permission first). He said that if T-Mobile can figure out a way to securely offer such capability, they may do it. But for now, they won't.

 

General subscriber access to these customized, on premises Wi-Fi routers has to be the T-Mobile end game.  Legere is not the altruist that many believe him to be -- he and the pinkish executive team have plenty of ulterior motives up their sleeves.

 

That said, I am intrigued.  If T-Mobile can sort out the security and bandwidth management issues for general sub access, this could make for an interesting "small cell" deployment.

 

Better yet, partner with or buy out the Globalstar TLPS spectrum for unencumbered 2.4 GHz Wi-Fi.

 

AJ

[Conan Kudo]

General subscriber access to these customized, on premises Wi-Fi routers has to be the T-Mobile end game.  Legere is not the altruist that many believe him to be -- he and the pinkish executive team have plenty of ulterior motives up their sleeves.

 

That said, I am intrigued.  If T-Mobile can sort out the security and bandwidth management issues for general sub access, this could make for an interesting "small cell" deployment.

 

Better yet, partner with or buy out the Globalstar TLPS spectrum for unencumbered 2.4 GHz Wi-Fi.

 

AJ

You know as well as I do that waiting for solving the security problem isn't altruistic, it's simply good business sense. Especially in this day and age, people are increasingly aware of security problems and taking companies to task about it. And in an competitive environment, no one can afford to screw up like that. Of course, Comcast isn't in a competitive environment, so they don't care.

 

I do think there are some interesting opportunities there. I didn't think about the Globalstar 2.4GHz spectrum, but you're right that it would be an interesting way to go about Wi-Fi powered small cells.