T-Mobile LTE & Network Discussion

[maximus1987/lou99]

 

 

Usually those antennas are outside on the roof. Not too many of them on the inside. The only time you would have an interference problem is at the edge of Channel 51 coverage areas. I mean channel 51 transmitters are at 100,000 watts or more and we are worried about the less than .5 watts erp of a phone. You will have to hold the phone extremely close to that antenna before it interferes.

 

 

Regardless, DT channel 51 was there first and is entitled to significant protection until it is retired. That is the key fact.

 

AJ

 

Is ch 51 compatible with the 600MHz reverse auction?

[WiWavelength]

Is ch 51 compatible with the 600MHz reverse auction?

 

If the incentive auction bears fruit, then DT channel 51 will be the first to go, turned into a guard band or part of the 600 MHz uplink -- depending upon the band plan rulemaking.

 

AJ

[bigsnake49]

Your math is off.  Even with a DT channel 51 transmitter operating at 100,000 W (80 dBm), free space path loss alone at only 25 km distance is 117 dB.  So, that 80 dBm signal has already diminished to -37 dBm, at best.  Meanwhile, nearby Lower 700 MHz A block mobiles could be transmitting at 23 dBm in the adjacent channel.  That presents a 60 dB difference and a big filtering problem.

 

Plus, you cannot assume where the DT antennas are located.  At only 25 km distance and still likely inside the metro area, plenty of people use indoor antennas.

 

Regardless, DT channel 51 was there first and is entitled to significant protection until it is retired.  That is the key fact.

 

AJ

 

I will double check your math, but from personal experience, I have never been able to get any indoor signal (when I lived in a house) from the repeaters (forget about the actual transmitters which are >60 miles), the repeaters being less than 12 km away on a 300ft mast. Had to have an outdoor antenna on a mast and even that was not enough. Gave up and signed up for cable.

[WiWavelength]

I will double check your math, but from personal experience, I have never been able to get any indoor signal (when I lived in a house) from the repeaters (forget about the actual transmitters which are >60 miles), the repeaters being less than 12 km away on a 300ft mast. Had to have an outdoor antenna on a mast and even that was not enough. Gave up and signed up for cable.

Come out West. We have 2000 foot masts, 10,000 foot mountain peak transmitters, and huge service contours.

 

From experience, I have used rabbit ears through adobe in Santa Fe to pick up Albuquerque stations off the top of Sandia Peak, which is 40 miles distant. And I bet that Robert can corroborate (or cor-robert-ate) that experience.

 

AJ

[Mobilesolutions]

Come out West. We have 2000 foot masts, 10,000 foot mountain peak transmitters, and huge service contours.

From experience, I have used rabbit ears through adobe in Santa Fe to pick up Albuquerque stations off the top of Sandia Peak, which is 40 miles distant. And I bet that Robert can corroborate (or cor-robert-ate) that experience.

AJ

And still no wireless in Trinity California last time I hiked up there!

[maximus1987/lou99]

Those are all valid points, however T-Mobile has to come up with a long term solution to rural issues at some point. I would agree that modernizing rural sites right now is dumb. That doesn't mean it isn't smart in the future.

 

This is a business where to be successful you have to pivot fast. Things change quickly. That's part of the reason why Dotson got canned.

They have one: 600 MHz.

 

"Ray said that the company is not currently looking to expand its network footprint and is eagerly awaiting next year's scheduled incentive auctions of 600 MHz broadcast TV spectrum. He said using such spectrum is "a far more effective way to go and build those opportunities out" and that getting access to such low-band spectrum would mean "we would finally have a level playing field in the U.S. marketplace" between smaller carriers and AT&T and Verizon Wireless (NYSE:VZ), which dominated the 700 MHz auction in 2008."

 

Read more: T-Mobile to expand MetroPCS footprint by 100M POPs - FierceWireless http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/t-mobile-expand-metropcs-footprint-100m-pops/2013-05-15#ixzz2VNUtVKDW 

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[maximus1987/lou99]

No. They're only modernizing ~37,000 out of ~51,000 sites of which the majority are those that are in urban areas with HSPA+ already deployed.

 

I'm assuming you got that 51,000 number from the article I posted from RCR wireless?

Well in another TMO thread, it was settled that they have a total of 36/37k sites

 

 

No. Tmo doesn't have anywhere near 37k HSPA+ sites. Not even close. The 36k is the entire Tmo network, pre-merger.

 

http://www.cnet.com/8301-17918_1-57576440-85/how-t-mobile-is-priming-a-stronger-lte-network-with-metropcs/

 

http://www.tmonews.com/2012/06/t-mobile-says-making-great-progress-on-4g-network-modernization/

 

http://www.extremetech.com/electronics/131241-t-mobile-makes-great-progress-on-network-upgrade-begins-lte-trials

 

 

Robert via Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

 

[maximus1987/lou99]

Even if we scratch 700 A out of the equation and make this just about the 600 auction upcoming (which T-Mobile is going to bid in), T-Mobile can use VoLTE to serve rural areas. By that time that coverage goes live LTE will be at Release 12 and a lot of the issues that hurt VoLTE as a rural option will be mitigated.

 

Would it yield few customers? It depends on on the level of customers they can get. Is the urban strategy right in the short term? Yes, but for the mobile market to be really competitive and the Bell duopoly to shatter and have a truly competitive marketplace, you need to get both of the carriers involved in solving the map issue. Again, VZW has the lowest churn because it has the most coverage. That's what customers value, and the fact they willingly put up with the rest of the overcharging, tiered data, and other BS on VZW proves that.

 

(Like)x10000

 

It's about marketing. The urban/suburban customers are most valuable but they want to feel surrounded by a filled-in map i.e. coverage. The fact that most of them will never need rural coverage is irrelevant; it's the perception.

[lilotimz]

 

I'm assuming you got that 51,000 number from the article I posted from RCR wireless?

Well in another TMO thread, it was settled that they have a total of 36/37k sites

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ahem. 

 

 

lilotimz, on 24 Mar 2013 - 12:02 AM, said:

[maximus1987/lou99]

Given T-Mobile's extremely aggressive marketing tactics and extremely aggressive pricing, I would say they are helping keep the industry competitive. $30 for 5GB 4G data is a great example of this.

 

 

No, it's not. If TMO were really serious about marketing the 5GB plan, they wouldn't put it in the bottom half of the pre-paid page like it's a regulatory concession. Furthermore, they wouldn't give you only 100 minutes and then charge you $0.40/minute overage.

 

Actually, this shows that they still have a classic carrier mindset - shocker. They have this plan to lure people in and then either upsell them to a plan with more minutes or charge them overage minutes.

 

Since they have more capacity than they know what to do with, why don't they drop their unlimited everything to $50, their 500MB plan to $30 at least temporarily? After all, isn't it better to fill in that capacity with paying customers?

 

But they don't want to because then it'd be impossible to raise prices later on when they've rolled out LTE and they'd "devalue the brand", as if the TMO brand isn't devalued enough; they're working for their shareholders, maintaining their precious margins.

 

Here's an example (almost) straight from the horse's mouth:

 

"What we're trying to find is that balance point where we care for our subscribers and where we care for our shareholders."

 

Read more: CenturyLink's Beal sees value in 1 Gbps fiber - FierceTelecom http://www.fiercetelecom.com/special-reports/centurylinks-beal-sees-value-1-gbps-fiber#ixzz2VNaAsx00 

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Centurylink doesn't have anything to do with TMO but this is a good example of how every CEO thinks.

 

This is why TMO will NEVER offer more than 100 minutes with their $30/month 5GB plan unless their subscriber numbers start free-falling.

 

Free-fall is what caused them to bring back truly unlimited after eliminating it.

[maximus1987/lou99]

I'd rather have Sprint's tri-band national LTE-Advanced network (with carrier aggregation across the EMSR, PCS, and BRS/EBS bands). That will absolutely rock.

 

 

 

There's not gonna be any aggregation across bands, only intra-carrier TDD Band 41

 

"Yet, while a 40 MHz pipe in Band 41 would certainly go a long way toward solving the capacity strains caused by rising video consumption, Alston noted that Sprint is not planning to pursue further capacity gains via complicated inter-band non-contiguous CA between the TDD and FDD flavors of LTE. He said, however, that the concept is worth contemplating."

 

Read more: Sprint exec: Clearwire spectrum is our priority for LTE carrier aggregation - FierceBroadbandWireless http://www.fiercebroadbandwireless.com/story/sprint-exec-clearwire-spectrum-our-priority-lte-carrier-aggregation/2013-04-21#ixzz2VNcANLqM 

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That sentence in bold, was said to cover his behind, meant more like "I'll think about it . . . (not)"

[maximus1987/lou99]

So, just for me to speculate, you think that if Sprint were to acquire T-Mobile, then the combined entity might deploy W-CDMA/2 or W-CDMA/4 (by the way, I am coining that terminology right here and now) in SMR 800 MHz to accommodate T-Mobile subs?

 

AJ

 

Why wouldn't they just go to VoLTE SMR?

By the time potential merger happens, won't VoLTE be almost as good as 1xA?

[Bob Newhart]

10 cents per minute.

 

Its a good deal, as people talk less and less.

 

If they had better coverage (any 1/2/3/4/G), more people including me would switch to this plan.

 

No, it's not. If TMO were really serious about marketing the 5GB plan, they wouldn't put it in the bottom half of the pre-paid page like it's a regulatory concession. Furthermore, they wouldn't give you only 100 minutes and then charge you $0.40/minute overage.

[S4GRU]

No, it's not. If TMO were really serious about marketing the 5GB plan, they wouldn't put it in the bottom half of the pre-paid page like it's a regulatory concession. Furthermore, they wouldn't give you only 100 minutes and then charge you $0.40/minute overage.

 

Actually, this shows that they still have a classic carrier mindset - shocker. They have this plan to lure people in and then either upsell them to a plan with more minutes or charge them overage minutes.

 

Since they have more capacity than they know what to do with, why don't they drop their unlimited everything to $50, their 500MB plan to $30 at least temporarily? After all, isn't it better to fill in that capacity with paying customers?

 

But they don't want to because then it'd be impossible to raise prices later on when they've rolled out LTE and they'd "devalue the brand", as if the TMO brand isn't devalued enough; they're working for their shareholders, maintaining their precious margins.

 

Here's an example (almost) straight from the horse's mouth:

 

"What we're trying to find is that balance point where we care for our subscribers and where we care for our shareholders."

 

Read more: CenturyLink's Beal sees value in 1 Gbps fiber - FierceTelecom http://www.fiercetelecom.com/special-reports/centurylinks-beal-sees-value-1-gbps-fiber#ixzz2VNaAsx00 

Subscribe at FierceTelecom

 

Centurylink doesn't have anything to do with TMO but this is a good example of how every CEO thinks.

 

This is why TMO will NEVER offer more than 100 minutes with their $30/month 5GB plan unless their subscriber numbers start free-falling.

 

Free-fall is what caused them to bring back truly unlimited after eliminating it.

 

I love my Tmo $30 per month plan.  I don't like to talk to people on the phone.  100 minutes suits me fine.  Also, Tmo is a secondary phone for me.  Actually, it's a tertiary phone.  

 

Robert

[maximus1987/lou99]

 

 

No, it's not. If TMO were really serious about marketing the 5GB plan, they wouldn't put it in the bottom half of the pre-paid page like it's a regulatory concession. Furthermore, they wouldn't give you only 100 minutes and then charge you $0.40/minute overage.

 

Actually, this shows that they still have a classic carrier mindset - shocker. They have this plan to lure people in and then either upsell them to a plan with more minutes or charge them overage minutes.

 

Since they have more capacity than they know what to do with, why don't they drop their unlimited everything to $50, their 500MB plan to $30 at least temporarily? After all, isn't it better to fill in that capacity with paying customers?

 

But they don't want to because then it'd be impossible to raise prices later on when they've rolled out LTE and they'd "devalue the brand", as if the TMO brand isn't devalued enough; they're working for their shareholders, maintaining their precious margins.

 

Here's an example (almost) straight from the horse's mouth:

 

"What we're trying to find is that balance point where we care for our subscribers and where we care for our shareholders."

 

Read more: CenturyLink's Beal sees value in 1 Gbps fiber - FierceTelecom http://www.fiercetelecom.com/special-reports/centurylinks-beal-sees-value-1-gbps-fiber#ixzz2VNaAsx00

 

Subscribe at FierceTelecom

 

Centurylink doesn't have anything to do with TMO but this is a good example of how every CEO thinks.

 

This is why TMO will NEVER offer more than 100 minutes with their $30/month 5GB plan unless their subscriber numbers start free-falling.

 

Free-fall is what caused them to bring back truly unlimited after eliminating it.

 

 

I love my Tmo $30 per month plan. I don't like to talk to people on the phone. 100 minutes suits me fine. Also, Tmo is a secondary phone for me. Actually, it's a tertiary phone.

 

Robert

Verizon is letting me leave, no ETF, cause I'm in a "marginal coverage area" so the $30 plan is looking tempting cause with the $45/month difference plus $120 I could sell my iphone 4, I could justify an iphone 5.

 

But, I'm afraid Ill end up paying for more minutes if the VoIP doesn't work well.

[bigsnake49]

At the conclusion of my current contract, I will go prepaid. aio wireless and T-Mobile's $30/month plan both sound good. I might just get both.

[maximus1987/lou99]

Will TMO be able to run LTE on PCS using the equipment they're currently installing without any physical modifications when they finally kill GSM?

[maximus1987/lou99]

TMO wants to have as much AWS dedicated to LTE so does this mean that they have a strategy for getting their customers to switch from a device that only has HSPA on AWS?

 

Are they gonna offer upgrade incentives or will they just announce "AWS HSPA will stop working on this date" and not care otherwise?

 

And will they make the decision to kill AWS HSPA market-by-market or will 100k users (aggregate) in biggest metro areas be enough to stall the AWS HSPA shutdown nationwide?

 

In this PDF, slide 20/34

http://assets.fiercemarkets.com/public/mdano/amis/tmopres.pdf

 

They say they're gonna keep AWS HSPA through 2015 which seems overkill.

 

They're gonna complete LTE rollout in 2014, right? And the only reason to have AWS HSPA is for the iPhone 5 until LTE arrives.

And I'd guess they haven't sold a AWS-only phone in a long time (my brother has one but he's upgrading to iphone).

 

 

 

[WiWavelength]

TMO wants to have as much AWS dedicated to LTE so does this mean that they have a strategy for getting their customers to switch from a device that only has HSPA on AWS?

 

Ask T-Mobile.

 

AJ

[iansltx]

TMO wants to have as much AWS dedicated to LTE so does this mean that they have a strategy for getting their customers to switch from a device that only has HSPA on AWS?

 

Are they gonna offer upgrade incentives or will they just announce "AWS HSPA will stop working on this date" and not care otherwise?

 

And will they make the decision to kill AWS HSPA market-by-market or will 100k users (aggregate) in biggest metro areas be enough to stall the AWS HSPA shutdown nationwide?

 

In this PDF, slide 20/34

http://assets.fiercemarkets.com/public/mdano/amis/tmopres.pdf

 

They say they're gonna keep AWS HSPA through 2015 which seems overkill.

 

They're gonna complete LTE rollout in 2014, right? And the only reason to have AWS HSPA is for the iPhone 5 until LTE arrives.

And I'd guess they haven't sold a AWS-only phone in a long time (my brother has one but he's upgrading to iphone).

 

 

The newest iPhone 5 variant is the only phone from that series that supports AWS HSPA/+. That's what all the refarm hubbub is about.

 

It's been awhile since T-Mobile has sold a phone with WCDMA in AWS and not PCS. There are still plenty of AWS-only subs out there, but two years may be enough to get them to upgrade to a comparable phone with HSPA+ in PCS and maybe LTE in AWS (or even PCS).

[megabytepr]

Here's a screenshot from earlier today. I was running in LTE only mode.

 

 

Robert from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Robert what is the name of that app you are using for testing?

[S4GRU]

 

Robert what is the name of that app you are using for testing?

It's RootMetrics Coverage Map app. It's a crowd source app like Sensorly, but it plots the average speeds encountered on a map with signal strength. I find their speed test component to be one of the most accurate.

 

Robert via Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

 

[jefbal99]

I will have to disagree on this one. I like stock Android...or CyanogenMod...much better than skinned experiences, and OS updates at this point, when executed correctly, have a positive impact on device speed, rather than the other way around. And I don't want to wait two years between OS upgrades.

 

Which means I probably need to add an engkneering screen tool to the list of apps I should write for the Nexus 4...because I'm sure the data is there skmewhere.

 

sent via my SIII on Tapatalk 4 beta

 

 

Clean stock OS with all the garbage removed is the way I roll... I hang around S4GRU too much to not have any Engineering screens.

 

I wish I could have the best of both worlds...

 

I started on Android with the OG EVO and I loved Sense! I did not like AOSP as Sense had so many more basic features, however, AOSP has basically added all those features.  I think starting with GingerBread, AOSP really started to get it right and have just kept up with everything.

 

I next went to the GS2 and GN2, I never liked TouchWiz, it is so clunky and ugly, like they are trying to sell to a kid or teenager.  I'm been on CM nightly/experimental builds for both of these devices because TW just doesn't suit my needs.  Storage is one of the biggest things for me and AOSP is just so much smaller.  Digiblur's completely stripped down GN2 TW ROM is still over 630MB while CM10.1 & GApps are about 260MB.

 

I wish that AOSP would put all the engineering data available as public APIs so that developers could write their own engineering screens for rooted users.

[digiblur]

My ROM is not completely stripped down. I could kick it down much more but would remove some functionality like the pen.

[irev210]

No, it's not. If TMO were really serious about marketing the 5GB plan, they wouldn't put it in the bottom half of the pre-paid page like it's a regulatory concession. Furthermore, they wouldn't give you only 100 minutes and then charge you $0.40/minute overage.

 

Actually, this shows that they still have a classic carrier mindset - shocker. They have this plan to lure people in and then either upsell them to a plan with more minutes or charge them overage minutes.

 

It's like so many other deals and discounts.  You do not want to take away from customers that are willing to pay full price.

 

This is similar to Sprint's old SERO program that targeted customers who were looking for a lot of value.  If a customer isn't looking for value, sell them on your standard plan.  Many customers just don't care.

 

 

 

Since they have more capacity than they know what to do with, why don't they drop their unlimited everything to $50, their 500MB plan to $30 at least temporarily? After all, isn't it better to fill in that capacity with paying customers?

 

Spectrum, sure, capacity?  Not really.  I don't know about other parts but in urban Boston, T-Mobile has trouble keeping up just like the rest of the carriers.

 

Technically, their 5GB plan is "unlimited" just throttled after 5GB.  It's something that makes sense given the prepaid model.  For 99% of customers, 5GB is essentially "unlimited".

 

 

But they don't want to because then it'd be impossible to raise prices later on when they've rolled out LTE and they'd "devalue the brand", as if the TMO brand isn't devalued enough; they're working for their shareholders, maintaining their precious margins.

 

I mean, LTE for them is not a network overhaul, just another incremental upgrade.  I think T-Mobile's biggest issue is coverage in rural areas - that's what is preventing them from charging more.

 

Here's an example (almost) straight from the horse's mouth:

 

"What we're trying to find is that balance point where we care for our subscribers and where we care for our shareholders."

 

Read more: CenturyLink's Beal sees value in 1 Gbps fiber - FierceTelecom http://www.fiercetelecom.com/special-reports/centurylinks-beal-sees-value-1-gbps-fiber#ixzz2VNaAsx00 

Subscribe at FierceTelecom

 

Centurylink doesn't have anything to do with TMO but this is a good example of how every CEO thinks.

 

This is why TMO will NEVER offer more than 100 minutes with their $30/month 5GB plan unless their subscriber numbers start free-falling.

 

Free-fall is what caused them to bring back truly unlimited after eliminating it.

 

I can't believe you would compare centurylink's CEO to t-mobile's.  And yes, EVERY company is out to profit.

 

The reason why they offer 100 minutes is because it offers them the opportunity to target customers who really don't use minutes to get a better deal on data.  It doesn't take away from higher revenue plans, attracts a new type of customer, and T-mobile doesn't have to pay exchange fees.

 

 

 

This is why TMO will NEVER offer more than 100 minutes with their $30/month 5GB plan unless their subscriber numbers start free-falling.

 

Free-fall is what caused them to bring back truly unlimited after eliminating it.

 

I don't get why you think customers WANT more than 100 minutes.  Frankly, I would take the plan with zero minutes and I would still think it's a great deal.

 

 

You are comparing apples to oranges.